Just a reminder...
#26
"Florida Man"
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Why this forum attracts so many posters that love, love, love their cars, I'll never know. BUT THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR THEM! Read the forum description. If you love, love, love cars, just pass on by.
What really frosts me, however, is that the car lovers are the ones screaming to the mods and getting threads moved.
What really frosts me, however, is that the car lovers are the ones screaming to the mods and getting threads moved.
It's odd how many car lovers are attracted to this little subforum and how vociferously they complain to the mods about us carfree people. I think it's because they sense that their world is changing, which terrifies them, and they come here to lash out at those of us who welcome what the future will bring.
However, I think we've shown the ability to discuss the political issues related to LCF without any problems in the past. Most notably, the tone of the forum brightened noticeably when one poster was temporarily banned recently. I don't see why we always dance around the truth of the trolling, which is almost always the reason we get off track.
If we could address the trolling, which I find more offensive than politics, I think most of the problems would disappear. Maybe it's too hard to do it, or tough for the mods to enforce under the rules; I don't know, but I don't want to judge the mods for however they decide to proceed. I only want to point out that the mere entry of politics into the discussion is not the reason we have problems in here. We all know the reasons. I am not sure how we could solve all the problems, but moving any thread that touches politics will only cause this forum to dissolve to a glacial pace and become too dull to bother to visit.
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Campione Del Mondo Immaginario
Campione Del Mondo Immaginario
Last edited by chewybrian; 11-19-15 at 01:17 PM. Reason: spelling
#27
Senior Member
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It's a very good bet the trollers are the same ones complaining to the mods when things aren't going their way. For some reason, they seem to delight in playing the victim for attention.
I don't see why we always dance around the truth of the trolling, which is almost always the reason we get off track.
If we could address the trolling, which I find more offensive than politics, I think most of the problems would disappear.
I don't see why we always dance around the truth of the trolling, which is almost always the reason we get off track.
If we could address the trolling, which I find more offensive than politics, I think most of the problems would disappear.
Trolling will never be addressed, namely because of certain long time members here who seem to be immune to disciplinary action despite that nearly everything they reply with are inflammatory or instigating remarks. Then you have the folks who cry wolf and report everything they don't agree with, citing offensive commentary when it is the wolf-crier who began the rant/troll/subtopic to begin with.
I.e., it's an internet forum, get used to it. Compared with other forums I have visited, bf is well policed and very well organized. I would say that the troll spats here are relatively tame and not worth fretting over.
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
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I didn't receive any censure from the mods, or PMs. I made no complaints to the mods, and a few commented that I shouldn't be bothered by the harsher comments that weren't directed at me. They may not have been aimed, but they still struck none the less.
Someone mentioned their displeasure with how many non regulars would come in, drop a bomb, and leave. That tells me a lot. They visit, get turned off by the judgmental P&R content, make a parting comment, and leave for good.
I'm glad for the shakeup, LCF deserves to be more than somewhere to be measured and found wanting by the faithful.
Someone mentioned their displeasure with how many non regulars would come in, drop a bomb, and leave. That tells me a lot. They visit, get turned off by the judgmental P&R content, make a parting comment, and leave for good.
I'm glad for the shakeup, LCF deserves to be more than somewhere to be measured and found wanting by the faithful.
#29
Senior Member
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I didn't receive any censure from the mods, or PMs. I made no complaints to the mods, and a few commented that I shouldn't be bothered by the harsher comments that weren't directed at me. They may not have been aimed, but they still struck none the less.
Someone mentioned their displeasure with how many non regulars would come in, drop a bomb, and leave. That tells me a lot. They visit, get turned off by the judgmental P&R content, make a parting comment, and leave for good.
I'm glad for the shakeup, LCF deserves to be more than somewhere to be measured and found wanting by the faithful.
Someone mentioned their displeasure with how many non regulars would come in, drop a bomb, and leave. That tells me a lot. They visit, get turned off by the judgmental P&R content, make a parting comment, and leave for good.
I'm glad for the shakeup, LCF deserves to be more than somewhere to be measured and found wanting by the faithful.
As for comments not directed at you, 'but which strike nonetheless,' that actually describes how I feel when I read most of your posts. They typically take something that I've been careful to say in a constructive way and re-interpret them as some kind of negativity-bomb, and then make a personal reaction that makes me feel like a mean person for having opinions. You can't take things that people say personally unless they're worded and/or intended that way. You have to give people room to express opinions that differ from yours and then just explain your reasons for disagreeing with them. Don't accuse them of hurting you personally for saying anything you disagree with. That's using emotion as a weapon in discussion.
Like with your comment that by suggesting anyone be free to perform blue collar labor, I am hurtfully threatening the job-territory of blue collar workers. That is so mean to frame in that way. Imagine if you wanted to be free to do something like, say, fishing on a public pier, and others fishing there approached you to tell you how threatening it was that you dared encroach on their fishing territory. They would basically be bullying you off the pier while blaming the victim, as if you were the one bullying them by showing up on the pier in the first place. Incredibly mean tactic.
Last edited by tandempower; 11-19-15 at 09:52 AM.
#30
Sophomoric Member
As an aside I've posted pics of the bicycle that I use instead of a motor vehicle for errands a few times.
In any other sub-form on BF there is usually a response pic of another member's bike or some comment whether it's Road, Commuting, C&V or any other sub-forum with interest in the machine and it's use. In LCF: Zero.
Oddly enough LCF is not actually interested in real bicycles used for car-free activities, it's not really a Bicycle sub-forum at all.
-Bandera
In any other sub-form on BF there is usually a response pic of another member's bike or some comment whether it's Road, Commuting, C&V or any other sub-forum with interest in the machine and it's use. In LCF: Zero.
Oddly enough LCF is not actually interested in real bicycles used for car-free activities, it's not really a Bicycle sub-forum at all.
-Bandera
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"Think Outside the Cage"
#31
Senior Member
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You've never participated on the many practical threads about LCF that I've started on this forum. But you post dozens of times on every "political" thread, in provocative, inflammatory tones. You also derail non-political threads with your extremist political opinions. You have done this many times. Then you have the nerve to complain that there are too many political threads. What is this behavior known as?
Ironically, or perhaps not, this thread is quickly denigrating itself by turning into exactly the kind of the thread it is criticizing.
/bf
Last edited by jfowler85; 11-19-15 at 10:22 AM.
#32
Sophomoric Member
The BF management already answered that question when they formed the LCF subforum years ago:
Clearly LCF is meant to serve carfree/carlight people who use different means of transport. And it was meant to be a "lifestyle" forum, where people feel comfortable sharing information about their personal experiences. There is no mention of equipment and gear in the blurb, although I and others sometimes start threads on equipment and gear. (Strangely, these are threads that you never participate in, since you spend your time on the more "political" threads.) I'm sorry that nobody commented on your picture. A lot of the posts and even threads that I've posted don't get any comment either. But it's nothing personal, and you just have to move on.
"Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here."
I could go into the reasons that descriptor was chosen, since I was involved in the discussions, but I'll spare you for now. Briefly, the goal was to make a forum that was about being carfree that wouldn't be "anti-car." I think that goal has largely been met, and the LCF subforum has mostly been a success. Clearly LCF is meant to serve carfree/carlight people who use different means of transport. And it was meant to be a "lifestyle" forum, where people feel comfortable sharing information about their personal experiences. There is no mention of equipment and gear in the blurb, although I and others sometimes start threads on equipment and gear. (Strangely, these are threads that you never participate in, since you spend your time on the more "political" threads.) I'm sorry that nobody commented on your picture. A lot of the posts and even threads that I've posted don't get any comment either. But it's nothing personal, and you just have to move on.
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"Think Outside the Cage"
#34
Senior Member
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I've done my share of trolling. On other sites, of course. The best thing to do when you suspect someone is baiting you is to simply ignore it. Trollers are clever folk who craft replies specifically to get a response, whatever that response may be. They are only in it for a reply. Remember, this is the internet and the time between communication does not have the social burden of spoken word, so the troller has time to analyze what you say, google some info in necessary, and retort with a comment just offensive enough to egg you on but not get banned.
The worst, most unsatisfying trolls are the ones which net no reply at all.
The worst, most unsatisfying trolls are the ones which net no reply at all.
#40
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#42
Prefers Cicero
Since we're now discussing language, I wanted to comment on the language in the forum title: "Living Car-Free".
In a way it is a loaded statement, since the phrase "car-free" implies that cars are something to be free of, but that's not what I mainly want to discuss. The word that stands out is "living". Living includes a lot: at least, what you think and what you do. And we don't live in a vacuum - we live in society and interact with it. So I think a discussion of 'living car-free" properly includes how car-free and wannabe car-free people act, how they think, and also how they interact with society at large. That would include how society accommodates car-free living, how it may or may not support or discourage it, and how car-free people vie with other groups for social and economic supports. To me all this is part of "living". I would hope the moderators will understand this.
In a way it is a loaded statement, since the phrase "car-free" implies that cars are something to be free of, but that's not what I mainly want to discuss. The word that stands out is "living". Living includes a lot: at least, what you think and what you do. And we don't live in a vacuum - we live in society and interact with it. So I think a discussion of 'living car-free" properly includes how car-free and wannabe car-free people act, how they think, and also how they interact with society at large. That would include how society accommodates car-free living, how it may or may not support or discourage it, and how car-free people vie with other groups for social and economic supports. To me all this is part of "living". I would hope the moderators will understand this.
#43
Sophomoric Member
Since we're now discussing language, I wanted to comment on the language in the forum title: "Living Car-Free".
In a way it is a loaded statement, since the phrase "car-free" implies that cars are something to be free of, but that's not what I mainly want to discuss. The word that stands out is "living". Living includes a lot: at least, what you think and what you do. And we don't live in a vacuum - we live in society and interact with it. So I think a discussion of 'living car-free" properly includes how car-free and wannabe car-free people act, how they think, and also how they interact with society at large. That would include how society accommodates car-free living, how it may or may not support or discourage it, and how car-free people vie with other groups for social and economic supports. To me all this is part of "living". I would hope the moderators will understand this.
In a way it is a loaded statement, since the phrase "car-free" implies that cars are something to be free of, but that's not what I mainly want to discuss. The word that stands out is "living". Living includes a lot: at least, what you think and what you do. And we don't live in a vacuum - we live in society and interact with it. So I think a discussion of 'living car-free" properly includes how car-free and wannabe car-free people act, how they think, and also how they interact with society at large. That would include how society accommodates car-free living, how it may or may not support or discourage it, and how car-free people vie with other groups for social and economic supports. To me all this is part of "living". I would hope the moderators will understand this.
But I think we might be losing sight of the bigger issue. I think people should be able to feel comfortable expressing their opinions without being carpet bombed, having their threads totally derailed then moved away, or being called a failure. I think three or four people are responsible for most of this abuse, and they should be dealt with fairly and firmly.
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"Think Outside the Cage"
#45
Senior Member
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#47
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#48
Senior Member
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I think the biggest issue with LCF is there's basically 2 separate camps on the subject. Those to whom it's an ideology defined by right, and wrong. Then there's those who consider it a practical matter defined by what works and what doesn't.
Pragmatism, and morals often don't mix well.
Pragmatism, and morals often don't mix well.
#49
Sophomoric Member
I think the biggest issue with LCF is there's basically 2 separate camps on the subject. Those to whom it's an ideology defined by right, and wrong. Then there's those who consider it a practical matter defined by what works and what doesn't.
Pragmatism, and morals often don't mix well.
Pragmatism, and morals often don't mix well.
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"Think Outside the Cage"
#50
Prefers Cicero
I think the biggest issue with LCF is there's basically 2 separate camps on the subject. Those to whom it's an ideology defined by right, and wrong. Then there's those who consider it a practical matter defined by what works and what doesn't.
Pragmatism, and morals often don't mix well.
Pragmatism, and morals often don't mix well.
Last edited by cooker; 11-19-15 at 03:24 PM.