cooker

Yes, as you point out, discussing why people make choices is a legitimate part of discussing a lifestyle.

wolfchild

A social experiment.

cooker

As if you don't want the world shaped to meet your preferences.

cooker

What did you learn?

cooker

I don't think this is accurate.

First of all, most of us regulars are committed to at least a car-light lifestyle, have years of experience, and don't really need to continually discuss what panniers to use, but if any newbie enters the forum and asks, they immediately get excellent information, the thread runs its course and it is done within a page or two.

Secondly it's demonstrated over and over, that what we regulars really like to debate here is the politics of living car free. Those are the threads that go on for pages and the ones that even people who say they don't want this forum to be political, mostly post in.

McBTC

Is this where you try to get this thread thrown into P&R...?

cooker

Not at all - I think it is perfectly within the parameters of the forum.

loky1179

+1

I-Like-To-Bike

First, anybody who asks about cargo carrying or shopping bicycling equipment or other commuting or utility questions probably should be directed to the utility or possibly commuting forum for relevant and P&R free advice.

Secondly, it's demonstrated over and over, that when we regulars post our "politics of living car free", "we" object to anyone posting a contrary view of those political views, no matter how provocative or preposterous or irrelevant the P&R scheme is to the subject of living car free living.

Thirdly, rather than any desire to debate the so-called "politics of living car free", we regulars, regularly proselytize various political and economic schemes and expect only electronic high fiving from the faithful. Any less than enthusiastic response from other posters is met with cries of "Bullying!" "Meanness!" "Trolling!" "Conspiracy!", etc.

wolfchild

I learned that there are absolutely no advantages and no benefits to being car-free...In my experience a car-lite lifestyle is a million times better then a car-free lifestyle.

cooker

Can you post examples of where people have tried to suppress contrary views or expected only electronic high fives? To me this just sounds like your usual unsupported claims.

cooker

That sounds a little extreme. Wasn't there at least the benefit that you didn't have to pay for a car you don't use much?

wolfchild

The expense is so minor that it's irrelevant.

Walter S

Thousands of dollars for something you don't use is irrelevant? You're out of touch and spoiled it would seem.

wolfchild

I am paying for something which I use regularly, maybe not everyday, but I use it often enough that it's worth the minor cost...And where are you getting "thousands of dollars" from ??

McBTC

For a 20 mile round trip, the author calculates $2 worth of gas to power a car versus $5.75 worth in Big Mac burgers or 3.50 in Coke to power a cyclist...

Is a Bicycle Really More Efficient Than a Car?

But... the LCF folks don't need no stinking weekly 5 day - 40+ /hr. job that's 20 miles away and even if they did they probably wouldn't keep it for long. That's the real thought process; and, there's nothing wrong with that. To bad the LCF folks are compelled to feel demeaned when someone points out that the title of their forum selectively disparages a mode of transportation that most productive people -- those who pay most of society's expenses -- rely on to efficiently and reliably provide all the goods and services that even LCF folks demand, including Big Mac burgers and Cokes.

cooker

Obviously it depends on the car capital and interest payments (if any), or depreciation if you want to do it that way, gas, insurance, licensing fees and parking. For most people it's going to be in the thousands, although perhaps not for you.

cooker

Wow, you sure have come around - you argued for pages that one shouldn't count the fuel costs of cyclists food and now you're arguing for it, when it suits you.

Roody

Why the heck are you telling me this? If you want to say something to tandempower, send him a private message. Can you not stay on topic for five minutes?

Walter S

Who are you referring to? I'm LCF and have a 5 day 40+ /hr. job that's 20 miles away. My current job has been like that since 1992.

Walter S

Why does the author compare normal gas prices to the price of take-out food? A Big Mac is 540 calories. That much energy can be obtained for far less than the cost of a Big Mac. For example the cost of making spaghetti can be well under half that. Other high calorie foods like pnut butter etc. are even less expensive.

Plus, even at rest you might burn around 70 calories per hour as a base metabolic rate. That adds to the cost of driving or should be deducted from the cost of bicycling.

And the bicycle time is an investment in your health. Since you're getting your exercise done on the bicycle ride you should deduct the cost of the ride from the cost of the alternatives you would in fact choose if you didn't bicycle - or the cost of not exercising at all.

ZMC888

15 years car free. But I don't live in the United States.

Also I can afford to buy a car, but don't want one. I have a driving license for 18 wheeler trucks, cars, and motorcycles. I've also ridden motorcycles and driven trucks professionally.

I only really enjoy riding bicycles, and occasionally motorcycles, I don't mind big trucks and powerful rear wheel drive cars. But under-powered front wheel drive cars make my blood boil.

Honestly, cars a a scourge on society particularly in Europe and Asia, because they are just horribly inefficient. Much less so in countries with more space like the US Canada and Australia, but they pollute peoples environment, roads and traffic and parking take up valuable space that could be used for parks and other public amenities.

Why anyone that lives within 10 miles of their work and food shopping and still owns a car is absolutely nuts.

wolfchild

40 mile roundtrip commute ??...I thought you're telecommuting to your computer few steps away ??...Didn't you say that before ??

wolfchild

My monthly food bill is much much higher then a gas bill for my SUV. Physically demanding lifestyle requires a lot of fuel for the body. Maintaining human body is a lot more expensive then maintaining a car. The cost of food here in Canada is much higher then in the USA.

Walter S

Yep telecommuting most days now. My real commute is usually once a week. That was a pretty recent change to my job for the time being. I bicycle commuted there for 25 years. In any case I do have a "stinking" 40 hr job at an employer that's 20 miles away...