willydstyle

What stats?

Agreed.

Walter S

Rather, a feeling that cars are being used excessively with negative consequences that impact everybody.

350htrr

+ 1

350htrr

Living in the real world has consequences... Human kind needs to realize that. Don't see it from the masses.

jon c. 

that's a concept that I don't think will become mainstream anytime in the near future. And I would expect the internal combustion engine, which provides the most demonstrable negatives, will be substantially absent from automobiles before then.

McBTC

True, true... when you scratch the surface of the LCF movement's logic it begins to look a lot like a proponent of a self-styled sugar-free lifestyle who is drinking a diet Coke while eating a donut; and, I am assuming their hostility toward cars isn't tempered in the slightest by drivers with bikes on car racks, which is the only reason their flawed logic even merits attention here.

350htrr

Really? So there's no downsides to driving vehicles, meaning private vehicles for everyone on earth? WOW, That is some denying of proven facts going on there... I still drive a car, but cut back to the point where if everyone drove like me & the type of car I drive, 10 people can drive with the same 'effect" ON THE WORLD "that I used to have, before my changes". That's just my guestimate...

I-Like-To-Bike

Perhaps I should have clarified my question about cycling being considered by the "mainstream" as a feasible alternative to driving was not referring to just/only people who own cars but sometimes commute by bike.

In the context of this thread, in what North American cities is there anything but a tiny slice of the population that seriously or favorably considers the feasibility of replacing their use of a car for their transportation needs with cycling just so that they can live car free?

cooker

You're not clarifying your question, you're asking a new one. And you know the answer. What rhetorical point are you trying to make?

I-Like-To-Bike

Your being aware and/or a public awareness that a relative handful of car owners are like yourself and prefer to ride bikes to work (or elsewhere on occasion) is hardy an indication that living car free is "becoming mainstream".

cooker

Living car-free is already mainstream in one sense, in that cities have lots of people who don't own cars. However, attitudes towards living car-free are still stuck in the 1950s, it seems.

StarBiker

One things for sure, I can go into the city (Baltimore) and see more cyclists in five minutes then I see all week in the county. All month for that matter.And I cycle everywhere. I do not cycle in the city. Not down there much, and just don't trust my bike being stolen.

cooker

Bike theft can happen in less urban areas too, as Machka can attest. I ride a more expensive bike to work now because I lock it to a rack inside a locked area, but for most of the 25 years I've commuted, I rode a rotating series of decent, second hand bikes purchased for $250 or usually less, and used a lock plus two cables if I locked it in a non-secure area. For a lot of that time, Toronto was considered the 'bike theft capital of North America', thanks in large part to one man, Igor Kenk, who bizarrely hoarded more than three thousand stolen bikes at various rented locations around town. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Kenk

SamSpade1941 

WOW simply wow!! I do not even know how to process that, he was one busy guy.

McBTC

Igor apparently entertained beliefs that may have found an appreciative audience in the mainstream LCF movement -- e.g.,

Police eventually uncovered some 3,000 bikes stored at Kenk’s Queen St. store, home and rented garages. He told people he was preparing for a fossil fuel apocalypse, when bikes would reign supreme. ~thestar.com

I-Like-To-Bike

The reality of this forum is the people on it profess that they allegedly prefer to not use cars, but own and use them nonetheless, just like everybody else, but assuage their car using guilt by calling themselves car light.

350htrr

WOW, I cant believe I am saying this... But +1 Maybe I had 1 too many beers.

McBTC

People that are LCF don't need garages and homes usually have a garage so apartment-life (or living in a tiny home) would I guess be better suited for a LCF lifestyle, eliminating the expense of home ownership--e.g., LCF/LHF. Eliminating parking altogether would be cheaper still and allow for a lot more people per square foot and that would help make mass transit more economical too. I see the future: sort of like no one ever leaving Junior High...

tandempower

If you define 'mainstream' in terms of statistical percentage of total trips, it may be increasing somewhat. If, however, you define it culturally in terms of how people view it, I think it is definitely being seen as more of a mainstream choice, as are other transit options besides commercial airlines. Greyhound and Amtrak used to be the only options for intercity bus and train travel, and both were fairly expensive and had a certain niche identity, especially Greyhound. Now I would say Greyhound is updating its image and pricing to be more competitive with a broader range of intercity bus services. Passenger rail was expanding for a brief moment with the advent of Sunrail and Trirail, but something always seems to happen to stall developments, which leads to limited range and schedules, which in turn makes it difficult to incorporate multiple modes into a single trip. E.g. It's possible to get from my city to an international airport by a combination of bus and train, but doing so requires an overnight stay still.

As for people riding bikes, I see more people of all ethnicities/classes/ages biking now than ever. There used to be basically just college students and a few young professionals, but now I see construction workers biking to jobs, older people both male and female, African Americans of various socioeconomic levels, etc. Unfortunately, I also know that many people won't bike because of concerns about clothing and hair, but that is different than avoiding biking because it's not 'mainstream' enough. The question is what would liberate a person with clothing/hair concerns to be able to ride a bike for transportation. Strangely, it's much easier for someone like me to dismiss the importance of dressing in long pants and collared shirts than it is for others. Why some people are more staunch in this way than others is something I would like to understand. Anyone know any good books on psychology/culture that explain it?

Walter S

LCF is going back to Junior High but this time with responsibilities

McBTC

At that age I dreamed of owning a boat not a car and I'm still LBF-- except for a SUP board.

Walter S

I had a boat and a trailer to haul it with but no car. Just a little 15 foot boat with a small outboard. I couldn't afford to keep it docked but I could easily talk car owners into towing me, especially as part of a joint venture.

cooker

Actually you are somewhat correct - a car-free person with a house doesn't need the space taken up by one or two cars and a garage and driveway, and if they live in an apartment, they don't need a parking spot, so that also frees up space. And of course, the more people use public transit, and the more efficiently city space is used, the more economical it is. So cars actually are high maintenance and indirectly cost other people too. So for a brief moment, you actually sounded like you were getting it.

McBTC

... airplanes are high maintenance too and buses and trains and horses and ships and... everything and, are there no indirect benefits to people living in a modern society that cars provide or, just a cost to the LCF-purist?

cooker

It's a question of looking at the overall costs and benefits, and at who pays. Most analyses show that car drivers underpay for the direct benefits they get, offloading costs onto others, and driving more than they otherwise would.