Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-18-17, 09:41 PM   #1
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Oslo: The Journey to Car Free

Here's another good one from StreetFilms on how Oslo is going to make the downtown carfree by 2019. They are building new cycle lanes including a fleet of lighter bikes for sharing. It used to be a good idea to make heavy bike share cycles to prevent theft but now we need to move away from this model.

I also like the fact they are buying new articulated buses where everyone can enter using all four doors! This is the first time I've seen where one can pay their fare from any door! It's about time cities begin having an honor system (with fare inspectors) where people can prepay and board using the rear door of the bus.

It's interesting how they are focusing all this expenditure to create a city for walking, biking and transit and in that order. Maybe that's the key to creating a carfree city.

Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-17, 11:29 PM   #2
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,602
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 264 Post(s)
One of the things that was mentioned in the video was the allocation of space. I particularly agree with the notion of going to the minimum width for travel lanes and the maximum width for bike lanes.

I suspect that the big push for segregated infrastructure in places like Portland, OR comes from the insanely narrow (and door-zoned) bike lanes that their road departments have put in. Such installations create the feeling that bike lanes are dangerous, which theirs are. Where the bike lanes are wider, cycling is much more comfortable.
B. Carfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-17, 11:10 AM   #3
wilfried
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The Big City
Bikes: Brompton M3L, Tern Verge P20, Citi Bike
Posts: 515
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
And this is a country that's getting rich from fossil fuels, yet they're working hard to reduce driving.
wilfried is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-17, 12:23 PM   #4
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 24,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfried View Post
And this is a country that's getting rich from fossil fuels, yet they're working hard to reduce driving.
It is not getting rich by burning fossil fuels; it is getting rich from extracting fossil fuels from the Earth and selling it on the world market.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-17, 06:24 PM   #5
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
One of the things that was mentioned in the video was the allocation of space. I particularly agree with the notion of going to the minimum width for travel lanes and the maximum width for bike lanes.

I suspect that the big push for segregated infrastructure in places like Portland, OR comes from the insanely narrow (and door-zoned) bike lanes that their road departments have put in. Such installations create the feeling that bike lanes are dangerous, which theirs are. Where the bike lanes are wider, cycling is much more comfortable.
Agreed.

I also like the fact they are constructing new multi-family buildings with NO parking! It's time we stop building downtown LA with massive parking buildings! It's almost impossible to have a walk able neighborhood when there's this huge 5 story parking garage that takes up half a block.
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-17, 06:27 PM   #6
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfried View Post
And this is a country that's getting rich from fossil fuels, yet they're working hard to reduce driving.
I wish there were more Oslo cities because I'm not sure one can retire there. It must be expensive to live in the center of town.

I live in the center of my town and I'm one of the few that's carfree. Go figure.
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-17, 08:31 PM   #7
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Posts: 11,410
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1601 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
Here's another good one from StreetFilms on how Oslo is going to make the downtown carfree by 2019. They are building new cycle lanes including a fleet of lighter bikes for sharing. It used to be a good idea to make heavy bike share cycles to prevent theft but now we need to move away from this model.

I also like the fact they are buying new articulated buses where everyone can enter using all four doors! This is the first time I've seen where one can pay their fare from any door! It's about time cities begin having an honor system (with fare inspectors) where people can prepay and board using the rear door of the bus.

It's interesting how they are focusing all this expenditure to create a city for walking, biking and transit and in that order. Maybe that's the key to creating a carfree city.

https://youtu.be/SuboGpL3de4
A lot of our streetcars/LRT vehicles now have multi-door entry and card readers for the Presto Card at each door. If you have a paper ticket, you either board at the front and deposit it and ask for a paper transfer, or you get it stamped by a machine on the platform, and carry it with you. Since it would now be easy to get on and off without paying, they have security personnel randomly boarding occasional cars and asking to see everyone's proof of payment (stamped ticket or transfer) or scanning your Presto card to see if you tapped it on the card reader. On a couple of occasions I have seen them confront someone who hasn't paid, but they just gently encourage them to pay now or at the next transfer point. No United Air incidents.

Last edited by cooker; 04-19-17 at 08:35 PM.
cooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-17, 11:19 AM   #8
Stadjer
Senior Member
 
Stadjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Groningen
Bikes: Gazelle rod brakes, Batavus compact, Peugeot hybrid
Posts: 577
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 606 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfried View Post
And this is a country that's getting rich from fossil fuels, yet they're working hard to reduce driving.
If oil demand would collapse over the next 20 years, Norway wouldn't have a problem, just adjustment to do. If CO2 emmissions keep at the current level, Norway will have a problem, just like many other countries.
Stadjer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-17, 08:53 PM   #9
gerv 
In the right lane
 
gerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Des Moines
Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed
Posts: 9,566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post

It's interesting how they are focusing all this expenditure to create a city for walking, biking and transit and in that order. Maybe that's the key to creating a carfree city.

https://youtu.be/SuboGpL3de4
This is an inspiring video... I don't think 10 years ago we would have believed this could happen. Even in Norway.
gerv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-17, 08:05 PM   #10
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
,

Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
One of the things that was mentioned in the video was the allocation of space. I particularly agree with the notion of going to the minimum width for travel lanes and the maximum width for bike lanes.

I suspect that the big push for segregated infrastructure in places like Portland, OR comes from the insanely narrow (and door-zoned) bike lanes that their road departments have put in. Such installations create the feeling that bike lanes are dangerous, which theirs are. Where the bike lanes are wider, cycling is much more comfortable.
I was thinking about segregated bike lanes and how dangerous they are today. I suspect half the problem are all the walkers invading the space. In order to make them safer, you'll need to have a protection barrier not from cars but from pedestrians.
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-17, 10:57 PM   #11
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,602
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 264 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
I was thinking about segregated bike lanes and how dangerous they are today. I suspect half the problem are all the walkers invading the space. In order to make them safer, you'll need to have a protection barrier not from cars but from pedestrians.
I agree that pedestrians and segregated bike infra don't play well together. The other problem is the intersection issue. With so-called "protected bike lanes" bikes literally come from out of nowhere (from the perspective of motorists). Inside of cities, the deadliest situation is at intersections, and segregation makes the problem worse. Out on a suburban thoroughfare, where overtaking vehicles are a greater risk factor, segregation could be a good thing, but that's not where it is being proposed or put in.
B. Carfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-17, 12:33 AM   #12
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,938
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
One of the things that was mentioned in the video was the allocation of space. I particularly agree with the notion of going to the minimum width for travel lanes and the maximum width for bike lanes.

I suspect that the big push for segregated infrastructure in places like Portland, OR comes from the insanely narrow (and door-zoned) bike lanes that their road departments have put in. Such installations create the feeling that bike lanes are dangerous, which theirs are. Where the bike lanes are wider, cycling is much more comfortable.
Very good point. I'm glad to see that all the bike lanes added here in the last 5 or 6 years are fully as wide as a car lane. The right half is the actual bike lane. The left half of the lane is a "buffer zone" marked with diagonal paint stripes, where neither bikes nor cars are supposed to be.

Of course the next big step would be protective barriers, such as pylons or curbs, that would physically protect cyclists.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-17, 09:58 AM   #13
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
I agree that pedestrians and segregated bike infra don't play well together. The other problem is the intersection issue. With so-called "protected bike lanes" bikes literally come from out of nowhere (from the perspective of motorists). Inside of cities, the deadliest situation is at intersections, and segregation makes the problem worse. Out on a suburban thoroughfare, where overtaking vehicles are a greater risk factor, segregation could be a good thing, but that's not where it is being proposed or put in.
The only solution I see to the intersection problem would be to dig a bike tunnel at the end of each block. Very expensive overall. The other solution would be to build a bike bridge over each intersection.
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-17, 10:08 AM   #14
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
Very good point. I'm glad to see that all the bike lanes added here in the last 5 or 6 years are fully as wide as a car lane. The right half is the actual bike lane. The left half of the lane is a "buffer zone" marked with diagonal paint stripes, where neither bikes nor cars are supposed to be.

Of course the next big step would be protective barriers, such as pylons or curbs, that would physically protect cyclists.
+1

I prefer an unprotected buffered bike lane to a protected bike lane. Why? A protected bike lane with cars parked outside (of the bike lane) puts more foot traffic from pedestrians looking to exit or enter their vehicles. This means you have to travel much slower to prepare for the unexpected foot traffic.

A field guide to North American bike lanes | PeopleForBikes
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-17, 04:39 AM   #15
oslomyths
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Bikes:
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
You guys may want to sober up and stopp listening to peopel who tell you how great thay are

first of all the guys who started this car free journey all have free parking space (for theyr cars) just outside the town hall. They are cought all the time using (diesel and petrol) Taxis in the areas they want to close for all cars...

I was in Oslo approx 14 days ago and it is bike hell. I was so glad I did not bring my B.

Last summer we arrived in Oslo after riding in Copenhagen. Leaving the ferry is easy enough. Nice bikepaths by the sea with the Opera on your right. After approx 300 meters it suddenly go totally bumpy and totally confusing. Short (2-300 meters) pieces of bikeparts here and there with no start and very sudden endings. We ended up walking the last part to the train station where we deposited our luggage to ride around town. My (young adult) son soon said "I do not want to ride here" but i decided to give it a try so he just had to follow...

You find cars driving on the bike paths and also parking on them. You have the Ninja riders and the granny riders. The granny riders stay on the sidewalk, the ninja riders ride anywhere it pleases them and twice as fast as the rest of the traffic if they can. No rules exist, no rules are followed.

Cyklists think it is theyr right to ride without lights, they all do. Instead of fining them the police have "campaigns" where they stop them and inform them what it should cost them to ride like that- and give them free bike light. If they crash the gow pay all medical bills so wh bother?

It looks like peopel turn into monsters once they are behind a wheel or on a bike. The person being a "car monster" one day may be a "bike monster" the other day. It takes mote than a car free center of town plus bike paths to sort of this problem with the "me, me, me" atitude.

In the end of the film a guy say something about being an example for Copenhagen, Helsinki and one more town I can not remember. That alone should sober you up. An example for Copenhagen??

In Copenhagen they have been doing this for years and years, it developed over time. It is in theyr spine and the police keep a close wach. Also other riders tell you if you are not following the rules- they put you in your place without any "please" or "sir". Every summer you can sit down on a bench in Copenhagen and watch the traffic running perfectly- until some tourists (I bet they are Norwegians) step into it like a heard of cattle (often studying a map) stopping in the middle of a fast bike lane (they have "fast" and "slower" lanes several places) to discuss where to walk to find the "Little mermaid" statue.

This is about culture and you do not teach the Norwegians culyure over night. We are used to live so far apart that we did not see our neighbours apart from in church, so the "this is my path and do not tell me what to do- and do not forget my family is etter than yours" attitude is still strong. Norwegians go abroad a lot but they do not learn much from it.

Read this found in a main Oslo paper. It is in Norwegian so let your browser translate it. You need to ad the http and triple w before the links and the .html at the end. I can not post the full link becouse of forum rules.

  • aftenposten.no/meninger/debatt/Oslo-blir-aldri-en-sykkelby-i-verdensklasse--Marius-Steen-620040b.
Also look at the article about Oslo giving peopel money to buy e-bikes. After aome time they looked closer at who bought bikes trough this sceme. They found it is mostly the rich peopel:

  • aftenposten.no/osloby/El-sykkelsubsidier-gikk-til-vestkanten-og-Nordstrand-8382b.

  • aftenposten.no/osloby/300-Oslo-borgere-far-10000-kroner-hver-av-kommunen-til-kjop-av-el-lastesykkel-614325b.
oslomyths is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-17, 10:00 AM   #16
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Posts: 11,410
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1601 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oslomyths View Post
You guys may want to sober up and stopp listening to peopel who tell you how great thay are

An example for Copenhagen??
Great to hear a contrary opinion. Sounds like a bit of inter-city rivalry going on - don't worry - we all think Copenhagen is the best! Or wait - maybe it's Gronigen!

You can post forum links - or maybe not if you are a brand new member?

Here are the google translated links:

https://translate.google.com/transla...ml&prev=search

https://translate.google.com/transla...ml&prev=search

https://translate.google.com/transla...ml&prev=search

Last edited by cooker; 04-29-17 at 10:14 AM.
cooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-17, 01:20 PM   #17
tandempower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2275 Post(s)
I would like to hear more concrete testimonials about the diversity of multi-modal transit-bikeshare trips people make, the time, the costs, etc. I also want to know more about what it's like outside the city, where presumably driving-dependency is still taken-for-granted. I can imagine that bus service is possible beyond the city, but is this the case or is car-free living really limited to people who live exclusively within the city?
tandempower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-17, 08:35 PM   #18
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I would like to hear more concrete testimonials about the diversity of multi-modal transit-bikeshare trips people make, the time, the costs, etc. I also want to know more about what it's like outside the city, where presumably driving-dependency is still taken-for-granted. I can imagine that bus service is possible beyond the city, but is this the case or is car-free living really limited to people who live exclusively within the city?
I didn't see any of the buses with bike racks for multi-mode transport. However, bikes are allowed on the trams which is a good sign.

I'm really impressed by the fact they subsidize costly electric bike purchases! The e-bike from what I heard is really becoming a big industry across Europe. At the moment, only the well off that can afford them but this will change as time goes on. However, it might also pose another problem as average speeds will increase leading to more accidents. As the articles pointed out, more enforcement of on street rules may be in order.
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-17, 07:09 AM   #19
tandempower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2275 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
I didn't see any of the buses with bike racks for multi-mode transport. However, bikes are allowed on the trams which is a good sign.
Bike racks on buses make it a gamble to plan to take your bike with you, since the racks only hold two bikes. Bike shares are the solution, but I want to hear more about how they work in practice, whether people find them practical, whether docking stations work well relative to destinations, whether cost deters many potential uses, etc.

Quote:
I'm really impressed by the fact they subsidize costly electric bike purchases! The e-bike from what I heard is really becoming a big industry across Europe. At the moment, only the well off that can afford them but this will change as time goes on. However, it might also pose another problem as average speeds will increase leading to more accidents. As the articles pointed out, more enforcement of on street rules may be in order.
Oftentimes I watch videos like this through the lens of filtering money to private businesses through public expenditures. E-bikes might be useful for certain applications, but they are expensive, and they undermine the fitness/health aspect of riding a bike.

I hope the main reason Oslo is going CF has to do with environmental and human benefits, and not as a stimulus program to justify doling out money in new, unexpected ways.
tandempower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-17, 09:30 AM   #20
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Posts: 11,410
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1601 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
I hope the main reason Oslo is going CF has to do with environmental and human benefits, and not as a stimulus program to justify doling out money in new, unexpected ways.
They usually emphasize in these videos that they hope or expect the creation of less car-friendly areas will stimulate or attract business, among other benefits. However, better they stimulate businesses to thrive on green infrastructure than on polluting, energy inefficient infrastructure.
cooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-17, 09:55 AM   #21
tandempower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2275 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker View Post
They usually emphasize in these videos that they hope or expect the creation of less car-friendly areas will stimulate or attract business, among other benefits. However, better they stimulate businesses to thrive on green infrastructure than on polluting, energy inefficient infrastructure.
We can't get into a political discussion about this, but my concern is that they dispense with the LCF reforms the moment they see the prospect of economic austerity in it. Yes, people can spend $1000s on ebikes and other public expenditures can generate jobs, stimulus, etc.; but I think ultimately we have to come to terms with the fact that bikes are simply more efficient and healthier in so many ways that we can't expect widespread LCF reform to result in the growth levels of peak automotivism, not that those growth levels were ever sustainable in the first place.

Maybe you can't expect everyone to accept this and adjust their economic expectations immediately, but my concern is that every time public money gets invested in helping a locality achieve better LCF, people take the money and spend it on cars and driving. At what point are we going to adjust expectations of income and earnings to reflect the absence of driving from our budgets? I'm afraid that as long as we don't, there will be an economic interest that pushes us to drive in order to fund the economy that depends on that level of expenditure remaining widespread among the public.
tandempower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-17, 10:12 AM   #22
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 1990s Peugeot (Canadian-made) rigid mountain bike; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others
Posts: 11,410
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1601 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tandempower View Post
We can't get into a political discussion about this, but my concern is that they dispense with the LCF reforms the moment they see the prospect of economic austerity in it.
It's impossible to be totally free of politics in discussing LCF - for example, the politicians of Oslo are interviewed in the video and had a hand in implementing the changes. The US economy is still growing, yet driving is starting to level off or decline, so I think we are starting to see a separation of economic growth from what you refer to as automotivism, as people almost literally "vote with their feet " to walk and bicycle more
cooker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-17, 11:27 AM   #23
tandempower
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Bikes:
Posts: 2,367
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2275 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooker View Post
It's impossible to be totally free of politics in discussing LCF - for example, the politicians of Oslo are interviewed in the video and had a hand in implementing the changes. The US economy is still growing, yet driving is starting to level off or decline, so I think we are starting to see a separation of economic growth from what you refer to as automotivism, as people almost literally "vote with their feet " to walk and bicycle more
Well, as you know I am not a fan of the rat race. So when you project high GDP growth will be maintained as LCF continues to grow, my fear is that the reduced need for pavement, cars, insurance, etc. that comes with LCF won't be translated into corresponding liberation from economic pressures.

You see, ultimately the economy is about occupying people's time in service of employers because if we don't submit to (sufficient) paid employment, we lose privileges of freedom. I am a believer in the prospect of gaining more time for unfunded projects by spending less time in paid employment, so part of the reason I LCF is to gain more freedom from the rat-race. What you're saying is that the rat-race will continue to grow and push people, only more of us will be biking and taking transit to arrive at our obliged destinations. Can you see how that would be less than ideal in my eyes?
tandempower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-17, 12:06 PM   #24
McBTC
Senior Member
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Bikes:
Posts: 1,771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
Quote:
Norway has attracted a stream of newcomers since the late 1960s, when the discovery of North Sea oil started to make the country one of the world's richest.. "I earn three times as much as I did back home and that's before you include the tips," says Vasco Raposo, 23, who moved here in October 2012 and manages a bar in the city. (Oslo's rapid growth redefines Nordic identity - BBC News)
So, what's the trade-off? Sunshine...
McBTC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-17, 12:24 PM   #25
McBTC
Senior Member
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Bikes:
Posts: 1,771
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 501 Post(s)
When you look at the size of city-based populations, Oslo is more like a Portland, Seattle or Boston and less like a London or a Paris with populations in the millions. Comfortable lifestyles of many, are, however, found in much smaller cities outside major metropolitan areas with populations more like 60K than >600K as, for example, like you find all along the sunny California coast.
McBTC is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:55 PM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from real people!
What's your question?
Send