MikeOK

Actually, in real world tests, it got about 200 miles. You can't use their own numbers. That's kinda like believing the epa gas mileage on new cars. My Jeep sticker said 21 highway, it actually gets about 16.

Robert C

Actually, when you look at the history of ICE engines, you will find that many of them were intended to drive the central belt system for factories that were not positioned near waterways. They frequently replaced steam engines in this application.




14 HP Gasoline engine from here

cooker

Are you guys still arguing about cars?

I-Like-To-Bike

I think it may be safe to assume that these early (and current) monoxide producing engines intended to drive the central belt system, factory machines, compressors or generators for factories are not mobile, are fixed in locations (often in outbuildings) and presumably will have exhaust systems in place that vent outdoors. Not so for forklifts and other mobile MHE and transport vehicles used in enclosed spaces. Hence electric battery and clean burning bottled gas engines are used for those applications.

Are you really ready to join the other poster to argue by assuming apples are really the same as oranges in order to demonstrate the virtue of electric vehicles?

I-Like-To-Bike

If you don't like this thread or discussion, perhaps you should start a thread on something you are more interested in, like trees and taxes, especially the taxes that you think should be raised for people who live a different lifestyle than yourself.

BTW, remember your post above the next time you prepare to harangue other posters about starting a new thread instead of offering responses to other posters' comments

cooker

I do start an occasional thread, as you know, and I do like trees, but I actually think you (whose lifestyle isn't that different from mine) pay too much in taxes to support an inefficient and inequitable infrastructure that you get much less benefit from than you contribute. So I think you deserve a tax break. You and a lot of people here, in fact.

350htrr

Well now, you "may" have to drive it "like a grandma", But it can go 315 miles on a charge, I suspect, would even bet. My car can vary hugely, I can drive it like I stole it and get 50MPG, or normally and get 62MPG, or if I was hypermiling it I could get 80MPG+, depending on how dedicated I was to get the "best mileage and didn't care about the driver behind me"... My other car I had was a four cylinder and made 400HP... I could get 18MPG, 28MPG, or 36MPG per tank, all it took was me driving differently to prove what I wanted to "prove", Yes I can beat your POS V8 with my 4 cylinder from this light to the next, or drive "normally" and beat your POS V8 and also, get better MPG...

Rollfast

Unless they are bikes, they are still cars, I reckon.

Rollfast

But if I had kept it until better cams and setups were available, my 1968 base model Chevelle with a 235 cid 'Turbo-Thrift' inline six would have done similar and so too my 1969 Dart 225 with a Super Slant Six.


Both 4-doors...being able to carry 3 fat friends and a Philco floor console was always a requirement.

350htrr

Both 5 doors and could do the same...

Robert C

No, I was only pointing out that ICE engines have been used in factory environments; however, electric motors eventually replaced them. The electric motors allowed the factories to replace the entire central belt system.

I do agree with 350's basic premise that electric vehicles will continue to replace petrol vehicles and will probably be a common sight within a decade or two. Even today, if the cost factor were addressed, they would be a good choice for a family that felt they needed a second car. The plug in hybrids are a good stop-gap solution. This allows the car to be built without a large battery bank and still allow it to achieve the range that allows it to be a primary, or only, car.

Battery cost is falling, and energy density is increasing. We are a long way from the electric car my father built, for commuting, in the early 70's.

To try to steer this back toward Living Car Free, Electric vehicles work best in compact low speed environments. This is the opposite of the sprawling, high speed, land use paragym that we currently apply in the US. Yet, it is better suited to LCF. We built a complete culture around the ICE, that took time. Rebuilding it will also take time, electric vehicles may help push us back toward an environment that is better suited to LCF.

350htrr

An electric vehicle in combination with autonomous vehicle technology, will spell the end of privately owned vehicles, then the LCF idea will take off... IMO

I-Like-To-Bike

Sophisticated compressed air systems and hydraulic controls were major factors also in replacing central belt systems for power transfer on the factory floors.
Probably any commercial or government organization of any size or mandate to provide service 24/7 like a hospital still has backup ICE engines on site to provide power to continue operations in case of loss of power from commercial power sources. Doubtful if anybody positions those engines inside a populated building without a suitable exhaust system.

Robert C

Frankly, that gets a "so what?" It is a bit of a non sequitur to the discussion. Consider Hydro-power for a moment, are you trying to argue that, to use hydro-power, the end user would need to have a dam, lake, turbine, and generator positioned inside of their factory?

I suspect that your would not insist on such a thing, as it is absurd. The same applies to your dismissive rejection of ICEs being used to power factories.

I was pointing out that ICEs have been used to power factories in the past. I never said that they were positioned on each piece of equipment that used the power they produced; in fact, by mentioning the complex belt drive arrangements of the early factories, I was pointing out that they were not positioned on each piece of equipment. You are trying to build some straw man, or straw factory, with some imagined Briggs and Stration on each drill press and loom, and then argue that your imagined factory is impractical. Certainly it is; but I never said it existed.

Your straw factory is identified and dismissed.

350htrr

Another step forwards... Volvo to go electric and hybrid only starting in 2019 - Business - CBC News What's next...? A autonomous electric vehicle... ?

1.8L/100Km, = 156MPG, 132MPG US gallon. The end is neigh for the solely ICE powered vehicle. Yay!

I-Like-To-Bike

Who said anything about "Hydro-power"?

The "so what" bottom line is that I provided the answer to a statement/rhetorical question made on this thread - "Why else would 99% of all industry use electric motors instead of ICEs in their plants..."; an absurd argument to support a contention about the advantage of electric vehicles for transportation.
You decided to bring up and discuss that ICE have been used and located in the past somewhere in the manufacturing process, and now electricity is often used instead in the manufacturing process. So what? Is your non sequitur posting also supposed to demonstrate the advantages of electric vehicles for transportation?

350htrr

My post was trying to point out that the electric motor IS more "efficient" thus industry embraced it, why don't we?

MikeOK

Because we don't want a $70,000 tin can car that has a 200 mile range. It's simple.

350htrr

Well now... I am very, very sure MOST people thought EXACTLY the same way about the MOTOR-CAR when it first came out..
1;Too expensive, $500, or whatever, (years and years worth of wages).
2; Too unreliable, nobody to fix it.
3; Too restrictive.(where are you going to buy the gasoline to run it, there isn't a gas station around here, maybe the next county ...)
4; Too many problems, flats, getting stuck, overheating, scaring the horses, noisy, smelly, an abomination "if God wanted us to drive a car, he would have given us wings,... err no, well it's JUST WRONG"...

I-Like-To-Bike

In a thread/discussion about the merits of electric vehicles for transportation, you brought up "Well now, I can't really speak to that as I do not know, all I do know, IS that an EV IS, more efficient than an ICE, that IS a fact... Why else would 99% of all industry use electric motors instead of ICEs in their plants...:
presumably implying that the reason for using electric vehicle use in plants (such as forklift, go carts, and other devices used for moving people and material about in a factory) is related to what is practical for transportation needs elsewhere.


Hardly!

350htrr

You are calling a Tesla a "tin can car", WOW, ..., ,

How many miles would a 3.2 sec 0 to 60 ICE get out of a tank of gas... Probably way less than the tesla, and the electricity is close to 1/2 the price to "fuel" up...

350htrr

Well, Yes, it is. Efficiency, what is wrong with that...? "If" let say GE, or GM, or Ford, Or Chrysler, would have "invested" as much in electric cars as they did in ICE over the last 100 years.. Today, I would think we would have available, 1,000 mile capacity batteries, charged with a rooftop solar panel that would not need to be plugged in anywhere... And NO, I am NOT daydreaming... The problem here is electric propulsion has been neglected, Why,? Because of cheap, subsidized oil, subsidised with peoples blood... That has made some people Billionaire's at the cost of ... maybe the world our children will inherit...

jon c. 

If I had $70K I didn't need, I'd sure want one. Friends who have driven them say they're a lot of fun. The rapid yet silent acceleration is supposed to be really a unique feeling.

350htrr

and, That is probably why some/maybe even most people "seem" to get less Miles per "tank" than advertised...

I know I would get less, or way more, than the advertised mileage per charge, depending on what I wanted to do with the vehicle... It's that type of car , drive it for the best mileage you can get out of it, or drive it for "fun".

Mobile 155

Are people still LCF if the are riding in a car, EV or Steam, or whatever?

I have been interested and waiting for a good Ev for almost 40 years and battery life and charging time have almost always been the deal breaker. That being said if I got an EV today, haven't found one that isn't a LSV that I would buy at this time. all it would be was a replacement for my ICE.

I was even willing to look at some of the three wheeled offerings but they still are a compromise to an ICE except for city driving.

I don't fully believe ICE has stifled EVs and their development because the US isn't the only one building cars and parts of Europe and Asia have had every reason to build EVs and they haven't done much better than we have. I mean think about it. The Japanese have built electronic pets and for the more adventurous electronic girl and boyfriends or even robots. But none of them have really got past the range restriction, charge time and towing limitations that hinder them here in the states.

I got my hopes up on the EV 1 but that fizzled. When Tesla came out I once again had high hopes but the entry fee was a bit high. Now that they are about to release the Model 3 starting at 35K I am a little more hopeful.

Still I contend riding in a EV car if it belongs to me or to a service that comes get me when I tap my phone still doesn't seem car free to me. it seems like riding in a EV car.