Mobile 155

As Billy Joel sang "I didn't start the Fire," here. The thread was started about EVs and the OP even wanted to know how many replaced their ICE vehicle with an EV. Another thread wanted to know how many have considered getting a free ride in a car to extend the distance someone might walk in a day. There has been several discussions on ride share and Uber/Lyft. I didn't start those conversations either. I get the impression that most of the posters here are not car free but rather car light/lite. So if the topic is EVs replacing ICE how is that disrupting the conversation? We might be talking about someplace moving to outlawing cars in their community and the thread moves into the social justice realm. It would seem disruptive to me if I were more interested in replacing ICE than social justice. Still if I remember correctly the group was queried about a more narrow focus in LCF and the majority seemed to believe a narrow focus would limit those wishing to participate.

I have always been surprised that this forum exists in a Bicycle Forum when bicycles are secondary to the thrust of the forum. Still it does exist and many here are not car free and it doesn't seem as if they plan on being car free in the near future. So my point of view is these threads are more or less business as usual. Your view may differ.

cooker

My view differs a bit from yours. I see this thread as qualitatively different from the "free-ride" and Uber-Lyft threads. Much has been made of how those latter threads somehow indicate that nobody here is sincere about LCF/LCL, and we all want to use cars just as much as ever, when in fact most of us except tandempower, are not particularly keen on any type of ride sharing, and even he is attempting to discuss how these services could be used to reduce personal car mileage and ownership. So the Uber-Lyft/sharing with a friend threads do seem to me to be at least somewhat LCL-related, and offer no evidence that people here are somehow phony LCF/LCL advocates.

As for this thread, it is laudable that somebody wants to drive a cleaner car, but it is taking us much farther away from the forum description at the top of this page, than the ride-sharing/hailing threads did.

Mobile 155

You have your opinion. I don't see a difference. Sit in a car you share, rent or borrow is the same to me as limited use of a EV you own. That is my opinion. It isn't any farther away as how much you use an air conditioner or heat your house. It isn't s far away as stealth camping. Once again my opinion. And as before I didn't put the car light into the group someone else did. That in fact puts a car in the subject line doesn't it?

cooker

If the thread was about limiting your EV use and walking or cycling instead, that would be consistent with the forum description, but that didn't come up.

350htrr

This LCF sub forum is also the LCL sub forum... and.. that means to me, that riding my bicycle more is a good thing and driving a vehicle less is even a "better thing"... SSssoo, to go to the NEXT step, driving my Prius C 1/2 as much as driving my Big-Assed 4X4 is a step closer to the intendant LCL, if not to the LCF,... Driving my Prius 20,000Km a year, getting 60+MPG seems to me a huge step up from driving my Big-Assed 4X4 40,000Km a year and getting 14MPG with it. A HUGE difference in my book. and yes, if I lived somewhere where mass transit was available... there would be no NEED to drive even a Prius C...

Living in a place where the next closest town is 100Km away in all four directions, and all of them are 1/4 the size of this town, is basically very hard to "do"... So, LCL is about the best one can be expected to do, unless one want to cut oneself off, from the rest of the surrounding area and the people who you want to associate with, (family)...

cooker

This isn't about whether or not you are a good person, it's about whether discussing the relative merits of different kinds of cars is the same as discussing giving up your car and/or preferring alternate methods of transportation whenever possible.

350htrr

OK, I cut back my driving a vehicle by 50% and basically doubled the mileage I rode my bicycle... Obviously that is NOT good enough to be LCL in your oppinion, even tho the car of my choice is actually 1/4 "as bad" as the vehicle I drove before... That begs the Q what IS LCL.?

Driving 10,00Km
Driving 5,000Km
Driving 1,000Km
Driving or being in a car 1 day a week.
Driving or being in a car 1 day a month.
Driving or being in a car 1 day a year...

I suspect EVERYONE here has a "different" rule of thumb... Driving less IS a good thing. IMO, is it yours.?

EDIT; No wonder there are people on here like ILTB, McBTC, and others who diss the LCF idea, as not practical, not realistic, not "real world thinking" "dreaming" "fantasizing" or some such mentality...

I-Like-To-Bike

You don't have a clue about what I and others are allegedly"dissing". We are commenting on the bizarre and strange ideas, theories and assumptions (that have little or nothing to do with living car free) posted on this list by a few imaginative thinkers that are not practical, not realistic, not "real world thinking" "dreaming" "fantasizing" and/or some such mentality.

cooker

I haven't said anything about whether you are "good enough" or not, as it is not my place. If you are driving less, let's have a thread about that and not about the car.

Besides, why is this even about you? You didn't start the thread.

Roody

I think you're doing great, and I want to hear a lot more about your experiences with non-automotive transportation in a challenging environment. That is, I look forward to reading about the 50% of your transportation that happens without a car. The other 50% of your travels, whether in ICE or electric car, interests me a lot less.

Personally, I don't care if people are carfree, carlight, or carheavy. It's a personal choice, and frankly the reasons people have for making this choice are of little interest to me. Some of my best friends drive and own cars. (In fact, all of my friends own and drive cars.) But the point of THIS PARTICULAR FORUM is to be about carfree living. That's what I come here to read about and post about. When I want to read about cars, even electric cars, I will go to one of dozens of internet forums that are about cars. When I want to read or post about alternatives to cars--that's when I will come here to this particular forum.

Again, the issue is not whether you (or anybody) is "good enough". Whether LCF is good for you or bad for you--I really don't care. I'm sorry that you feel defensive about it, and I'm pretty sure that you're a good person either way. It's very unlikely that people's morality changes in any way when they get behind a steering wheel.

I just want to hear about living carfree. You're a good writer and a very interesting person, so I really do hope to hear a lot more about your carfree experiences. (And this also goes for a lot of other people who post on this forum!)

Rollfast

The paramedics and ambulance never come here on bikes.

Walter S

What's your point? Paramedics and other first responders have important reasons to drive cars as part of their work. Does that mean that everybody else needs to drive too and make it harder for them to get around?

Rollfast

If I even get a hybrid, it will be a '56 Plymouth/Mercedes diesel-electric.


I do not mess around.

Rollfast

I guess my point was that somebody was going to freak out about that.

cooker

Nobody that I know of objects to motorized emergency vehicles. Are we supposed to? Sound like a good topic for my myths and misconceptions thread.

Walter S

I agree. It's another attempt to paint car free as irrational freaks.

I-Like-To-Bike

No need; irrational freaks make their presence known without any help.

wolfchild

Are you 100% sure about that ??...Some LCF fundamentalists are always looking back to the good old days when people lived and prospered and handled all kinds of emergencies without cars...Their theory is that: " if people could survive without cars back then, they can survive without cars right now."

Walter S

Sounds like you must have seen some comments like that. Where?

350htrr

Nowhere, that's all in the mind of the initiated to the "car culture" way is the best way/only way, actually...

cooker

Of course he hasn't.

Rollfast

It's Sunday. You have your own little religion thing and we have ours.

Rollfast

I want a hot dog.

350htrr

Did I say that my 4 cylinder was in the 12 sec bracket in the 1/4mile...

350htrr

Gas & diesel cars will not allowed for sale in England & France in 2040...