badger1

With respect (genuine), we will agree to disagree about this. I've stated my views on the intellectual incoherence of this sub-forum on other occasions; won't bother repeating 'em here.

McBTC

No crime in wanting to better yourself. Bad driving record, can't afford insurance, no money for more than a good bike...? If you can reliably show up on time (or early) and ready for work like everyone else -- i.e., be someone who can be counted on when something needs be done -- then, without question, feel free to ride a bike to work if that's what you need to do; and, go to the Commuting forum if you need help ironing out seemingly confounding details of having to survive in a modern society without dependable transportation. Don't be a loser and look down on those who drive a car as if they're part of a cult when what they're really doing is simply trying to earn a living.

cooker

As a regular participant, aren't you part of that "intellectual incoherence"?

cooker

I have dependable transportation. I get to work every day without a car. No money troubles, no bad driving record, no reasons other than pure freedom of choice on my part.

McBTC

No crime in not wanting to better yourself either...

Lars Honeytoast

Just the wife and cats.

No, its not out of the norm to bike daily/commute in Europe, though a lot of people do not understand why I choose not to go through the hassle of the rigorous and expensive task of getting a drivers license over here.

My friends and family in America are half and half, I come from a line of rednecks and good ol boys. Either they think its interesting alien concept to own a bicycle after the age of 9, or its not manly to drive around on bicycle all day and Ive turned into a "girly European man..."

Have I been ostracized and exiled out of society? I would say no, I still get around fine and meet people. But lets say I left one group to join the other.

Roody

And you are definitely the king of the malcontents on this forum, or at least the one who posts the most.

McBTC

Ad hominem arguments are indicative of errors in reasoning. Do you really believe people who drive an automobile to work are part of a cult? Is that an absolute truth for you? If so, that sounds like zealotry.

I-Like-To-Bike

Correct, as you have previously posted, you have reasons to use that freedom and sometimes choose to drive or be driven in your family car, just like everybody else who is a member of the so-called car owning "cult."

Sal Bandini

Freedom...there is the key word and concept behind the popularity of the car. It has very little, if anything, to do with peer pressure or superior marketing gimmicks.

The invention of the wheel gave people more freedom.
The domestication of the horse gave us more freedom.
Wagon gave us more freedom.
Bicycle gave us more freedom.
Train gave us more freedom.
Car gave us more freedom.
Airplanes gave us more freedom.
...And so it shall continue.

You can build all the bike paths you want but the fact remains that people will overwhelmingly choose that which is more convenient and offers most freedom to get around. It's like asking people to return to snail mail after they've been introduced to email.

McBTC

True, true, car ownership for many is an investment in personal growth. The days of growing up, marrying, working, living and dying within a relatively few miles of where we were born is no longer the norm.

Crawdaddy

I didn't read anyone here say that you should give up your car and ride a bike to do everything. They have made the choice for themselves.

As for the automobile being a cult doesn't take but a google search to find several stories titled with that. Some written by automotive magazines

MikeOK

Mtbtc and I-Like-To-Bike, sorry I had to bail on you. You aren't going to change these hard headed people's minds. I have a theory: they ride their bikes on busy streets and huff and puff and breath our exhausts and it kills the part of the brain that controls reasoning. I'm unsubscribing again now so I'll see you guys on some other post

McBTC

How about we get together on getting a LPF (Living Paddleboard Free) sub-forum here...?

Crawdaddy

Good place for ya

cooker

I'm not sure which "hard-headed people" have to have their minds changed. We're discussing the question of whether car ownership is cult-like and apparently some people think it is, in very metaphorical, abstract sort of way, and others don't think so. Why get all riled up about such an abstract topic?

cooker

I've had a few people over the years make negative comments about my choices. I didn't get quite the level of abuse MikeOK got from the rednecks for biking in road kit.

Crawdaddy

That is true. Grew up around redneck culture. But now that I travel around the Country not many bike friendly places. In so called forward thinking California now and have been yelled at by people in cars as much as Redneckland. Living the bike life bot easy anywhere

Mobile 155

This is pretty much what I expected. When we think of cults here we think like ones trying to leave something and others trying to stop them by some form of force. And once they leave they are ostracized by the former group, in mass. I have contended that cycling in general is as easy to do as walking if that is your preferred method. The only one that has to be happy with their transportation choices is the one making that choice. It doesn't matter what others decided for themselves. I remember that for eight years I only rode a motorcycle. To work, to college, to dinner with friends and on vacations. I can remember riding past thousands of cars on my way home from work or even going from California to Washington and not once thinking or caring one bit about what those people in the cars thought. I am pretty sure they didn't think about what I was thinking either. So in effect you dispel the basic premise of the OP. It wasn't an escape it was just a change if life choices.

McBTC

... and, be a LPF hypocrite? That wouldn't be right and like LCF, has nada to do with bicycles and love of cycling.

Crawdaddy

A friend of cycling is a friend of mine. Now if we can just get you in a Hybrid

badger1

Actually, no -- but well-played

Sangetsu

I don't think there is a such thing as a "cult of driving". In places like America, where the great majority of the country is rural and suburban, and even urban areas are widely laid out, driving is more a necessity than a luxury or cult activity. In my old neighborhood in America, there were few shops within walking distance, and no major shopping centers within easy cycling distance. Not having a car in such a place is a great disadvantage. And then there was the ability just get in my car and drive to the mountains, the desert, or the sea, and return home the same day, without tired legs and a sore butt.

Now I live in the center of Tokyo, and everything I need is within walking distance. I live in a luxury area, near two major shopping centers. Pretty much anything I need is nearby. I ride my bike every day, either to go shopping, drop off and pick up my daughter from school, or ride around Yoyogi Gyoen for exercise.

But being in the heart of one of the world's largest cities is stressful. There are people always about, the noise is incessant. Getting out of the city means a long train or subway ride, or an even longer bike ride. With my car, I can simply get on the nearby highway, and within an hour I am outside the city. Japan is full of mountains, forests, and winding roads, places which are fun to see by bicycle, but tiring and difficult to get to from the city.

tandempower

Many posts are insisting that driving is just practical and there's no cult, but if you look at specific trends like that for large SUVs that were popular in the early 2000s, you would hear people describing their participation in that widespread, even dominant, subculture in terms of practicality and/or safety even though it was really more like a cultish obsession with a certain kind of social status having to do with owning big things.

wolfchild

This is being proposed all the time on this forum, you just haven't been on this forum long enough to notice it.