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  1. #51
    bragi bragi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilby View Post
    Hey, now--not all women are afraid of being outside! And I think some of us mihgt envision a future family that is car-free.

    But think about how much effort most women put into getting ready to go out. They do their hair & make-up, dress up in clothes & shoes not particularly suited for biking...There is a societal expectation for women to look 100% polished, hence the need to travel in the enclosed environment of the car. No matter how much time I spend getting ready to go out, it's virtually impossible to arrive at my destination without looking rumpled, being sweaty, or having helmet hair. Men's expectations of women make it pretty hard for the car-free female, too.
    Actually, mens' expectations are considerably more modest than you imagine. Men don't really care if women look polished or not. They do want women to be healthy, friendly, intelligent, and emotionally available. That's it. If you meet a man who wants any more than that, he's probably gay and doesn't know it yet. Personally, if I meet a woman who's a bit disheveled and "glowing" from a decent bike ride, she's already a lot more interesting.
    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

  2. #52
    Immoderator KrisPistofferson's Avatar
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    I really can't have a problem with women who have no interest in car-free men, as I have no interest in ugly/fat/dumb/old women who smoke cigarettes. Everyone has their own set of criteria, some is arbitrary, some is well thought out, some is handed down from parents and if you want to get into evolutionary psychology, some of it is picking someone who will best facilitate reproduction, which, (if there is one,) is the whole "point" of biology.
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  3. #53
    gwd
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    Quote Originally Posted by bragi View Post
    Men don't really care if women look polished or not. They do want women to be healthy, friendly, intelligent, and emotionally available. That's it. If you me
    Uh-Oh. What does "emotionally available" mean? My ignorance of this might explain a thing or two about my social life. I pretty much agree with the people who post here saying that car free is less of an issue than other parts of a persons personality. To the non-car free it seems like a big issue because by definition cars are a big part of the car dependent persons life.

  4. #54
    Biker, Lover, Fighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by bragi View Post
    Actually, mens' expectations are considerably more modest than you imagine. Men don't really care if women look polished or not. They do want women to be healthy, friendly, intelligent, and emotionally available. That's it. If you meet a man who wants any more than that, he's probably gay and doesn't know it yet. Personally, if I meet a woman who's a bit disheveled and "glowing" from a decent bike ride, she's already a lot more interesting.
    Obviously some men do care about a woman looking polished, but those men are probably not living car free and in fact are probably the ones using their cars as sex facilitators. Good for them, but they're probably not reading this forum either. I prefer women that look attractive without all the make-up and primping. A woman that takes an hour (or more) to get ready for the simplest thing just isn't going to work for me, along with the fact that she might be so scared that she'll break a nail that she won't do anything fun.

  5. #55
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bragi View Post
    Actually, mens' expectations are considerably more modest than you imagine. Men don't really care if women look polished or not. They do want women to be healthy, friendly, intelligent, and emotionally available. That's it. If you meet a man who wants any more than that, he's probably gay and doesn't know it yet. Personally, if I meet a woman who's a bit disheveled and "glowing" from a decent bike ride, she's already a lot more interesting.
    I'd add "honest" to your list, and change "emotionally available" to "emotionally stable", but otherwise you're pretty close to the mark. Personally, I think someone who takes care of themselves will probably hold their looks better than someone who looks like a supermodel when they're younger, but doesn't. In my experience, however, "honest" seems to knock about 90% of people out of the game right away. But then, as I've said in other threads, most Australian men are looking overseas for women anyway (including the ones who have cars). It's now reached the ridiculous stage where the government are paying people to have children because it won't happen otherwise.
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Lamplight's Avatar
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    That aspect of life really hasn't changed for me: Women weren't attracted to me when I drove, and they're not attracted to me now that I don't. And to be honest, I haven't yet met a woman around here who even remotely shares the same interests as me anyway. They all seem to be hell-bent on getting married, having kids, owning a couple of SUVs, and living 15 miles from town. That's the opposite of what I want, so I figure it's pointless to bother worrying about it.

    On a side note, since becoming car lite and now car free, I've come to notice certain facial expressions of the different sexes. Women usually look at me with a "Bless his heart, that loser is so poor he can't afford a car" look. Men usually give me "I hate you and you're an idiot" kind of look. Obviously I can't know what they're actually thinking, but this is the impression I get and I never got these looks before I started riding for transportation. I also couldn't care less.

  7. #57
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    I'm car-light but I've considered this issue as well. Moving into a new city, I was concerned about meeting friends and dating people that shared my bike-centric interests. I made an effort to get involved with the "bike culture" in New Orleans and have met many interesting people, including a now ex-gf (still friends). If you continue to socialize with non-bike folk your car-free lifestyle will most likely eliminate some car-centric dating material. That's not really a problem in my eyes...

  8. #58
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    double post, sorry

  9. #59
    Senior Member travelmama's Avatar
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    That aspect of life really hasn't changed for me: Women weren't attracted to me when I drove, and they're not attracted to me now that I don't.
    Goodness, that is funny. No matter what you do in life, people are going to have some issue with it, that is why it is always best to do your own thing. I find it fascinating to meet other cyclists, runners and triathletes because we always have something to talk about. Fortunately enough I met my boyfriend at a bike ride so we had that in common. We now ride together and have great times together.

  10. #60
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    Id have to say that if someone is judging how they are attracted to me based on me having a car, well thats not someone im interested in. My girlfriend sees my bike love/advocacy/car free life as an asset, and is jealous her job makes the choice for her impossible.

    Also in relation to riding with your kids or a romantic interest, thats what is so great about a Bakfiet, or similarly designed vehicle. you deposit the said person in front of you, so you can easily talk and see eachother. since their weight is low, handling isnt affected too much, and you and your date, or kids can have that same nice chat youd have in the car, but at a more lesiurely pace and enjoying the sights.

    Also theirs something to be said for being in shape FROM biking that can do wonders to counteract the attractiveness of a car owner who is overweight and flabby.

    Finally though, I suspect that this very problem is why so many people move to places like portland: the bike culture allows them to maintain their social life, just in the new sphere of biking, since its such an accepted part of life there and id suspect a great way to meet people. Bike culture is just a way for chicks and dudes to meet up sans car

  11. #61
    gwd
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeneticFlea View Post
    Id have to say that if someone is judging how they are attracted to me based on me having a car, well thats not someone im interested in.
    Well, the judging is one thing we can get past but what Fitzgerald was referring too in the essay was also the physical opportunities afforded by the "mobile privacy". This is more of an issue for kids who live at home. One thing bike kids can do is take tips from the guerrilla campers and use their bikes to escape to private places to swing in a hammock or beach blanket or something. Bikes don't attract the attention of cars so there are more interstitial locations available to bike kids.

  12. #62
    Biker, Lover, Fighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwd View Post
    One thing bike kids can do is take tips from the guerrilla campers and use their bikes to escape to private places to swing in a hammock or beach blanket or something.
    Maybe us bikers can start something along the lines of the mile high club, but call it the 3 foot high club for getting frisky on a bike. There's a marketing opportunity for some creative entrepreneur, create a saddle designed for 2. This might be the 1 case where you want a saddle with some springiness to it.

  13. #63
    Senior Member flammenwurfer's Avatar
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    Do yourselves a favor and just be happy single. Woman are F@#@# INSANE! They literally make no sense and will do completely ridiculous things with no warning and give you no explanation!

    Sorry, that's just how I feel at the moment, obviously it's not true about all women, but there is a good chunk of women on this planet that lack any sort of logic or mental stability.

  14. #64
    In the right lane gerv's Avatar
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    You resurrected this thread to point out your misogynist views. Obviously not true of all, or probably 99%, of women. Perhaps you are having a bad experience with a woman, but you shouldn't generalize from that.

  15. #65
    Senior Member flammenwurfer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerv View Post
    You resurrected this thread to point out your misogynist views. Obviously not true of all, or probably 99%, of women. Perhaps you are having a bad experience with a woman, but you shouldn't generalize from that.
    Let's calm down. I thought it was obvious that I was being ridiculous and knew it. I don't truly believe that all women are insane.

  16. #66
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    in my experience, there is no dating when car-less.

    I'ts probably not the reason though hahahaha

    The perfect girl would be car-less as well, so then you can ride around together!

  17. #67
    Senior Member Newspaperguy's Avatar
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    When I meet someone interesting, I want to have the important stuff on the table near the start. I'd much rather part ways over beliefs or ethics or philosophies of car use than to let a relationship flourish while the important topics are not discussed. If the big topics, whatever they may be for you, are ignored early on, then the temptation could be to compromise later. As a relationship progresses, logic takes a back seat to emotion. At the start, there's still a chance the voice of logic will be heard.
    Life is good.

  18. #68
    moving target c0urt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackrocksteady View Post
    in my experience, there is no dating when car-less.

    I'ts probably not the reason though hahahaha

    The perfect girl would be car-less as well, so then you can ride around together!

    dating works just fine for me without a car. I have met a fair number of girls who ride their own bikes while i was in different parts of the country.
    Just get out and meet people.
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  19. #69
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwd View Post
    I created a multi topic thread here but you responders seem to have focused
    on the dating part of it. You all seem to be saying that we shouldn't worry
    about it and confine our attentions to like minded people. In reading
    everyones posts I was hoping to pick up some tips on talking with friends
    and family who don't seem to understand that car free is a good way to live.
    Also the "don't worry about it" approach, that I take by the way, works when
    you don't mind blowing the person out of your life. Sometimes that car obssesed
    person is also a decent human being that you'd like to associate with.

    The posts about male/female differences made me remember what I've read about
    secondary sexual characteristics as a subject of female sexual selection.
    If you pay too much attention to commercial culture it looks like ostentatious
    displays of material wealth is a human secondary sexual characteristic. To
    the extent that this is true, guys who don't display the appropriate things
    are at a disadvantage. They have to work harder to convince the females that
    they are interesting and fun and can enhance the chances of their offspring's
    survival somehow.
    You think women like "interesting and fun" guys because it may enhance the survival of their offspring? I think that human sexuality is a bit more complicated than that my friend....

  20. #70
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    I was literally just thinking about this. I prefer riding a bike and have been told many times I am good looking. The thing about me is, I own a truck and I dont plan on giving it up I usually drive once a week to keep the truck from falling into disrepair. When people ask if I ride a bike everywhere, I respond, "Usually, I have a truck but I prefer riding."

    So, I have the luxury of picking a girl up for a date in my truck. Conversely, if we are meeting somewhere, I will ride my bike there. I have yet to have a date set closely to a girl's place but I should look into that. Heck, if I can do that, I can ask if she would like me to pick her up on my tandem.
    *All that was included in this comment was meant to be read with a light-hearted demeanor. If at any point I offended anyone or presented an idea that is contradictory to what they hold to be true please consider this post to be a joke. For the sake of keeping the post free of unnecessary clutter, please reconsider any "correction" to this comment you may or may not feel compelled to post.

  21. #71
    Senior Member Ziemas's Avatar
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    Not being creepy/antisocial/ridged is going to do a lot more for you than having a car. Cycling has never been an issue for me when it comes to women, and if you aren't creeping women out then it shouldn't be an issue for anyone else either.

  22. #72
    Senior Member flammenwurfer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnr783 View Post
    I was literally just thinking about this. I prefer riding a bike and have been told many times I am good looking. The thing about me is, I own a truck and I dont plan on giving it up I usually drive once a week to keep the truck from falling into disrepair. When people ask if I ride a bike everywhere, I respond, "Usually, I have a truck but I prefer riding."

    So, I have the luxury of picking a girl up for a date in my truck. Conversely, if we are meeting somewhere, I will ride my bike there. I have yet to have a date set closely to a girl's place but I should look into that. Heck, if I can do that, I can ask if she would like me to pick her up on my tandem.
    Sounds very similar to me. I have truck and love it, but it does end up sitting in the driveway for a number of days in a row quite often. For me it's due to riding my bike and my moped though. I have a boat to pull that I need my truck for since I haven't found a way to pull the boat with a bike or a moped yet.

  23. #73
    Senior Member huie's Avatar
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    Dating is hard when you don't have a car especially out here in the suburbs. It seems everyone I date lives in the city which is actually nice since once you're in the city no car is needed. Getting out to the city, however, can be a pain. Thankfully within the month I'll have my own place downtown and then the necessity of a car will be non-exhistent.
    Finished my tour up South America and across Canada. Now I'm nearly on the road to ride Southeast Asia with my fiance.

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  24. #74
    Cheese toThinkistoBe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alekhine View Post
    Not only did I give up cars and television sets, I also took to sleeping on the floor last year because my back feels better that way. I only realized it after a few years of bike touring and enjoying my tent more than I did my bed. So goodbye, bed! Thanks for giving me more room on your way out the door! I have a Japanese Kakebuton and fold-up mat now instead, and they go into a closet when not in use.
    Me too! I sleep in an indoors hammock made for sleeping most of the time, and on the floor with a little padding mostly when it's cold (I don't like using the heater either). Girls love the hammock (it's big enough for two).


    My advice: I haven't got any, but if a person is shallow enough to nay-say another person based on their good, ascetic choices in life, I'm not sure I'd be interested.
    I wholly agree here. When we go out, we usually have a big bike posse. It probably helps living in a college town, but I haven't had any problems with ladies and not having a car. It may also help knowing that I donated my car, who knows. Even the ones who weren't interested in bikes have never had a problem with it; in fact, I've had girls follow me home after parties and such in their car. Something about a nice view. I've never understood as it's always been at night down a pretty boring road.
    "Physics makes us all its *****es."

  25. #75
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    I think that if you want your friends, potential gfs, etc. to understand and respect the car-free life, then you just have to live that life normally. You can't be cooped up in your house all the time, you need to hang out with your friends just as much as someone who owns a car. And I think most importantly, you need to be a hard worker and generous.

    A lot of people think that the car-free person is poor or just cheap. Both are legitimate reasons to be car-free, of course, but if you are car-free for a simpler lifestyle, then you should still be generous and responsible. Whenever I hang out with friends, they're always the one to drive places because they know I don't own a car. So I think it's really important to pay them generously for gas. Stuff like that.

    I think that a partial reason many girls are looking for a guy who has a car is because it's a sign that they are responsible. Some people think that if you don't own a car, then you're just lazy and bum off of other people all the time. Yeah there are definitely those people who don't have a car, they have no job, and have no intention of finding a job because they are lazy. But I'm assuming the people here are not so much like that. Part of the whole car-free life is just to work hard like everyone else, make plenty of money to support your financial goals, but to have a more simple life, possibly leaving money over for things you think are more important. Not to mention saving yourself from the annoyance of owning a car (insurance, repair, gas, etc).

    In my opinion, you should get to know a girl pretty well before seriously dating her either in group settings or public hang-out locations. So even though she may have initially be turned off by your lack of car, if she sees that you are a hard worker and a generous giver before you seriously pursue her, then you have fine chances with her (assuming she's not a happiness sucking b****).

    Let's start a bike amish community! just kidding
    Last edited by donquixote17; 09-13-10 at 01:17 PM.

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