oilfreeandhappy

I have a family of 4 licensed drivers. We have one car, which is usually with my wife or my daughter when she's home from College.

I cannot even consider getting rid of the car though, predominantly because I would fear for the safety of my wife and daughter at night. Even though we live in a relatively safe small college town, I'm just not comfortable with either of them cycling at night. And they aren't either.

Do others feel the same way? I'm also not comfortable with them walking to a bus stop at night - certainly not alone, and maybe not even with a friend.

Guest

If you're that concerned, give them a bottle of mace. Then invest in good headlights and taillights and reflective gear. Shoot, I ride at night and I'm female. I make it work.

It's all about stranger danger- someone's following you, you cut out of there. Someone attacks, and you retreat. If you get caught, it's all about the mace. And have 'em carry a cell phone in the event something goes wrong (in all likelihood, it won't).

Koffee

cooker

Koffee...I'm disappointed in you! Your response was good from a cycling point of view, but not in the broader sociopolitical sphere. The real question is...shouldn't his wife and adult daughter be the ones to decide on this - not him?

gwd

You might be more at home in Iran, or someplace in Afghanistan still controlled by the taleban. Iranians and others who have lived there say Iranians don't let their women out without a male relative escort even during the day.

Guest

They've already decided- remember... they're afraid. So I'm just giving him the tools to encourage them to overcome the fear.

Koffee

AlanK

For someone who lives in a 'safe college town' you seem really paranoid. You're afraid for your wife and daughter's safety going to the bus stop? If you live in a safe community, it is very, very unlikely that anything will happen to them at or walking to a bus stop.

You're concerns about bicycling at night seem more grounded in reality, but I've been car free for over 5 years now, and bike all times (including at night). If you are smart about it, it's reasonably safe. First and foremost, get flashing safety lights to improve visibility. Secondly, don't take major chances, and always assume the car doesn't see you right way. If you stay along the shoulder, you probably won't have any problems even if the car doesn't see you.

oilfreeandhappy

Thanks for the comments. All the comments are valid, and I agree that it is my wife and daughter's decision. I'll have them read this thread. I don't know if I could get my wife to carry mace, but it is a good idea. It's one of those things. The chances are remote, but if anything did happen, I'd never forgive myself.

Artkansas 

Should they feel guilty if anything happened to you?

Guest

I don't get it. Why so worried? Are you that concerned that they are that weak, timid, and helpless? If so, there must really be something up with them.

Just wondering.

Koffee

Blackberry

oilfreeandhappy--I do understand your concerns. Much as I hate to admit it, anyone who even thinks of living car-free in the USA is, by societal standards, pretty much a freak. On the other hand, I don't think I would have the same level of fear as you do. Utimately, though, I'd listen to your family and yourself and not to me or anyone else on a message board.

Urbanmonk

Ah, the young zealots.

Oilfreeandhappy,

it's your family, and your's alone. I'd die for mine, and would do everything in my power to ensure that they were safe, regardless of age. Lifestyle is one thing, but in our zeal to promote and "live the life," we sometimes neglect to use some common sense. My wife and daughters (young) will probably never live the life to which I aspire, and that's okay. You do what you think is best for "your" family and *%#@ the rest.

Just a husband and father's opinion

Cheers

srrs

Are they necessarily going to be that much safer unlocking the car in front of your home? Getting out in a parking garage? It's my opinion that, properly lit, a biker is far safer than someone walking to a bus stop. A cyclist, particularly someone who carries themselves as a cyclist (helmet, lights, riding w/ trafffic etc, instead of going 4mph on a cruiser on the sidewalk w/o lights or helmet) seems to be viewed as a "vehicle," instead of as a "pedestrian," and as such is less likely to be mugged or accosted.

It makes me sad how many things females are discouraged from, and discourage themselves from doing because of their gender. Take some self defense classes, carry some mace, look alert, and you'll probably be fine.

cerewa

I agree. I definitely think that Americans take their safety fears too far, or too far in the wrong direction, sometimes. Most people (in the USA and elsewhere) die of heart disease, cancer, or stroke, while those (like cyclists) who get exercise are less vulnerable to those diseases.

The person who commented about the Taliban seems to have views a bit like mine. I'm a guy so feel free to flame me for not knowing what it's like to be a woman or something but...

I find it to be a sort of sexist notion that women can't enjoy the freedom men can, to go about alone at night or in "bad neighborhoods". The fact that women believe it doesn't make it less anti-female, sexist, to me...

It makes me sad when people's own fears are, in a sense, taking away their freedoms. Of course, reasonable fears really should stop us from doing certain things, but I don't feel that this is a situation of reasonable fear. Women really aren't much weaker than men, on the whole, (take me for example, there are plenty of women stronger than me ) and if people started thinking and acting as though that were true, maybe women would be targeted for violence even less than they already are.

Roody

I would encourage anybody, male or female, who's altered their lives due to fear of crime, to take a good self-defense course. You will learn not only how to protect yourself, but how to make reasonable assessments of how dangerous a given activity or area really is.

Ask around to find a good course. You may be able to find one at the college, the Y, women's groups and martial arts schools.

A good self-defense course will also be good exercise and fun--just like cyling.

folder fanatic

I am adult female without a car for most of her adult life. I live in a high crime area filled with gang members, desperate undocumented immigrants, and other criminal types. Sometimes I go out at night for good reasons-like escorting my father to the emergency room when he was alive. How do I do this? I use my Emergency Transport Vehicle-in other words my folding bicycle at 3:45 in the morning. I do not wait for taxis, good intentioned neighbors (even if they existed), one every hour buses, or some other means of public transportation. Cars cost $$$ and give a false sense of security. They can also be easly spotted by potential criminals. The bike has always protected me by being so small, quiet, and unassuming in it's nature. Also it could be combined with another vehicle in the event of another means of transport opens up. I vote for bikes anytime of the day or night.

lala

I feel sorry for women (and men too!) who live their lives in fear. I found that cycling helped me overcome some of my anxieties about being out and about in public.

TimJ

That’s an incredibly rude and infantile thing to say. You’re equating the man’s completely reasonable concern for his family with genuine oppression, and in the most reactionary and indignant way possible.

There’s projection, which certainly isn’t lacking here, and then there’s you going out of your way to insult someone who’s just trying to work something out.

I don’t care if Jim wasn’t insulted, it was by itself a particularly mean-spirited, irrational and uncalled-for insult. I just wanted you to know that.

lamanda

When my (now-ex)husband left and took the car, all I had was my bike. I was living in Minneapolis and biked everywhere by myself night and day. I never felt afraid. In fact, I think it was the most strengthening thing I could have done. I knew people who lived in the suburbs that were afraid just to come into the city itself. I think fear keeps a lot of people from doing very freeing and normal things. I have taken a self-defense course back in college, about 6 years ago, thankfully never had to use it.

gwd

OK TimJ, its Friday, I'll bite. It is a bike/car free issue. I'll admit I may have overstated the "male relative escort" part but the original poster may in fact feel more at home in a culture that uses protection of the family and exaggerated sexual distinctions as rational reasons to keep females from full and equal participation in society. I have to say that Muslims who I have asked about their customs, point to our divorce rate and teenage pregnancy rate and make comparisons with their own intact extended family life.
Iranians who I've known well enough that they have invited me into their homes have shown me a good side to their culture that doesn't come through in the newspapers. Iranians move to our country because they see good things in our culture, why shouldn't people from Colorado who share some of the cultural values move to an Islamic republic? People of any sex who are too timid to ride the bus seem foreign enough to me that they might feel more at home in a country where adult women don't ride bicycles and don't go out on the streets alone. They certainly wouldn't feel at home in my country, where women participate in many car free or bicycle activities at all hours.

iBarna

What if the car breaks down with them inside? "Something" can happen all the time. Actually I think many, if not most attacks happen at the time when people are getting into their cars.

I am not saying you shouldn't be concerned and take precautions.. but a little reflection might go a long way. Also, whenever I'm concerned for the safety of anyone, I accompany them.. Sounds like more opportunities for you to ride your bike

oilfreeandhappy

It's good to hear an account of somebody who successfully commutes, in even tougher conditions than where we live! WTG!

oilfreeandhappy

One other encouraging note. There are no stories in this thread from females who have been abused on their bike. I'm starting to lean more towards bicycling being safe. I always considered it similar to walking, which I certainly wouldn't want my wife or daughter doing alone (unless a high traffic area) at night. But with reflectors, lights, and general common sense, bicycling is probably much safer.

I-Like-To-Bike

A word of advice before getting too encouraged: Don't assume that the members/posters on this forum are anywhere close to a representative sample of people who do not own cars; especially those who are are unvoluntarily leading carless/material-lite lives due to their economic circumstances. Nor can you assume that the posters' reactions to local neighborhood circumstances are representative of anybody else's reactions.

Nor can you safely assume that the anectdotes posted reflect anything about the circumstances/situations effecting the bulk of the population elsewhere (be they cyclists, car-free, women or any other slice of the public).

TimJ

That's completely ridiculous. Everything. The original message, your justification... there's nothing to "bite" at, I'm not trying to get you riled up or anything, you went out of your way to insult a guy with a completely unreasonable implication/suggestion and it was so incredibly... just the most self-obsessed kind of rude I didn't want to let it go. Trying to explain your insult as mearly a reasonable suggestion brought about by some rational thought process... it's just ridiculous. I normally wouldn't do something like this but I just really, really can't stand self-righteous posing. I don't know anything about you or what kind of person you are, but give me a break, you went out of your way to insult a guy, pretending it was your actual well-thought-out advice coming from the heart, please.

Thor29

I understand the feeling of wanting to protect the people you love, however, I really think this is a completely irrational fear. What about the possibility of car accidents? Or that they could be mugged walking to or from the car? What makes it even more ridiculous is we're talking Ft Collins, Colorado. That ain't no gritty urban ghetto, that's freaking Main Street USA. Americans seem to have trouble grasping the concept of probability. Check the statistics and see which is more likely in sunny Ft Collins, Colorado: death by murder, or death by automobile. I'd bet you a case of Fat Tire Ale (brewed in Ft Collins of course) that cars are the real killers.