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  1. #1
    I'm made of earth! becnal's Avatar
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    Living Car Free has become Living Oil Free

    Why has this forum suddenly become the 'Oil Free' rant list?

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    I've noticed this too ...... some of these threads really ought to go into the Politics forum. We want people who want to know the practical nuts and bolts of living w/o a car to feel welcome here and get good advice, or if it's from me advice anyway! Not feel like they entered the student dining hall and accidentally sat down at the "political debate" table lol.

    I'm not a mod so, hopefully a mod seeing this nudges some of the threads over into Politics.

  3. #3
    Senior Member mpop's Avatar
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    I would say part of it, is that there are very very few that are car free for non-political reasons, I am one of the few that am car free for non-political reasons. Many that are car free for political reason are doing it because they are against the car cultrue, and think cars should be outlawed, I don't agree with them there.
    Michael P. O'Connor
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    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    It's the same problem as with some threads in Advocacy & Safety. It's only natural that some of the issues discussed in these two forums will border very closely to politics. If you feel a thread is "too" political, please report it (the "SPAM!" button) to us mods and we'll look into it.

    --J, a Forum Mod
    To err is human. To moo is bovine.

    Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?


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  5. #5
    Good Afternoon! SamHouston's Avatar
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    Only a few, very very few think cars should be outlawed. They think they should be more restricted and that society should cease to develop around the car and work to undo some of the damage already done.

    As far as living oil free...they're dreaming. They'd have to give up cycling to do that, and find running shoes with cork or leather soles for getting to work. Car free is a tremendous step, let's not go nuts. Petro has many practical beneficial properties and the real problem is our reliance on it and the glut of our societies. We could have lots of nifty petro products and not damage our enviroment or cause political upheaval over oil if we work on car-free and renewable energy.

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    You can be car free and still use oil. For every calorie consumed from food it costs 5-15 calories worth of petroleum to produce unless you grow and process all your own food the old fashioned way.

  7. #7
    jim anchower jamesdenver's Avatar
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    i like flying small planes, so must use gas and oil for that. i also ride the bus

  8. #8
    Senior Member filtersweep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by becnal
    Why has this forum suddenly become the 'Oil Free' rant list?
    You would have to buy absolutely nothing for that to be the case- last I checked, petroleum fuel almost all distrubution networks for food, consumer items, pretty much everything...

  9. #9
    THC Freedom Fighter karmical's Avatar
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    i guess i don't take things too seriously because i have not read any of those oil/gas threads at all.

    living carfree to me has nothing to do with with oil or gas to me, i simply do it because i enjoy doing it, and it works for me right now as it has done for the past 4yrs or so, cause to tell you the truth i tend to forget exactly when it was.
    Smoke all you want too, we'll grow more...

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    I've noticed the increasingly dogmatic turn that this forum has taken also -- I hope it can go back to folks just sharing tips/ideas about how to maneuver through western society w/o being shackled to a cage regardless of their "politics".

  11. #11
    THC Freedom Fighter karmical's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ___
    I've noticed the increasingly dogmatic turn that this forum has taken also -- I hope it can go back to folks just sharing tips/ideas about how to maneuver through western society w/o being shackled to a cage regardless of their "politics".
    one of the reasons i had stopped really spending anytime here lately, but it wasn't like i was going to report/or tell on anyone, i simply just wouldn't see any topics of intrest and would just go on to somewhere else and hope that topics of intrest would return and the others would grow tired of their stuff and go elsewhere...

    if i offend anyone its not my intent, but there is a political forum that would welcome most of this oil/car free better than thou bs...but to tell you the truth, its kind of funny, now that i read through a couple...
    Smoke all you want too, we'll grow more...

  12. #12
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    "To each his/her own." I for one do not wish to see cars completely eliminated. I think what most cyclists need is their own space on the road and not pushed off by a tital wave of cars coming at you from all sides.

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    Actually glad to see that others are thinking the same way I am, I've got a car, don't see being able to get rid of it in the forseeable future but sure am happy to see any tips on ways to reduce the amount I use it. The religious anti-oil stuff is tiring though.
    Last edited by jabowker; 09-19-05 at 04:32 PM.

  14. #14
    Senior Member AlanK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamHouston
    Only a few, very very few think cars should be outlawed. They think they should be more restricted and that society should cease to develop around the car and work to undo some of the damage already done.
    Exactly. This is my whole argument exactly. Autos do have there place, but North American society should stop building itself around cars. With a few exceptions, autos should be used for occasions only - camping, or other out-of-the-way activities for which other means of transportation aren't practical.

    The only people who should use them as part of a daily commute are those haul equipment as part of their job (construction, housekeeping, deliver, etc.) It's ridiculously inefficient to used 1500pds+ of equipment to transport 100-200 pds of person.

  15. #15
    Chicago Cyclist ViciousCycle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedex
    For every calorie consumed from food it costs 5-15 calories worth of petroleum to produce unless you grow and process all your own food the old fashioned way.
    There's a parking lot I often cycle/walk past that a neighbor tells me used to be a Victory Garden. It amazes me to think that those gardens use to provide a substantial amount of food. I could see such things returning some day...

  16. #16
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    Well, there's only one thread that specifically deals with being oil free in the Living Car Free forum. There should only be one. If there are others, let me know so we can merge.

    If everyone's ranting in one thread, what's the problem? They have to go somewhere.

    Koffee

  17. #17
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by becnal
    Why has this forum suddenly become the 'Oil Free' rant list?
    A rant would be things you judge not appropriate, or interesting? I would challenge you to move the discussion in a way you find more useful.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  18. #18
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilHinault
    I've noticed this too ...... some of these threads really ought to go into the Politics forum. We want people who want to know the practical nuts and bolts of living w/o a car to feel welcome here and get good advice, or if it's from me advice anyway! Not feel like they entered the student dining hall and accidentally sat down at the "political debate" table lol.
    I'm not a mod so, hopefully a mod seeing this nudges some of the threads over into Politics.
    If your only mode of transportation is your bike, discuss your car-free lifestyle here. Your point that politics are not part of the topic and more juvenile than mechanical issues- mirrors your interest's. Without dissent you can't have a forum, just an eopinions/ product ratings list with helpful hints.
    Any discussion of bicycles and transportation begins with the car. They don't have a bike-free forum.
    Last edited by carless; 09-19-05 at 11:38 PM.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
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  19. #19
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpop
    I would say part of it, is that there are very very few that are car free for non-political reasons, I am one of the few that am car free for non-political reasons. Many that are car free for political reason are doing it because they are against the car culture, and think cars should be outlawed, I don't agree with them there.
    First, how about a poll, I'd be interested to know what people think. Second there are many reasons to not use a car, it is dismissive to lump "them" into any group so easily. Third, your either for it or against it is a false dichotomy, many shades of gray exist: you can be against the car culture and allow that vehicles are necessary.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  20. #20
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juha
    It's the same problem as with some threads in Advocacy & Safety.
    Advocacy is politics.

    It's only natural that some of the issues discussed in these two forums will border very closely to politics. If you feel a thread is "too" political, please report it (the "SPAM!" button) to us mods and we'll look into it.
    --J, a Forum Mod
    If your only mode of transportation is your bike, discuss your car-free lifestyle here not- If your only mode of transportation is your bike, discuss your bike here. This distinction is important because life without a car is not purchased, commercialized, encouraged or even acknowledged by many people.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  21. #21
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauren
    I'm car free for the financial benefits, and I don't post here anymore (barely read it, just happened to see this). In my experience anyone doing it for non-political reasons is slowly run off.
    I have never read disparging comments about why people do or don't use a car. I have read disagreemnets and once some coarse language. I would suggest your reading the post's and don't find them interesting, yet fail to post subjects or ideas you like to see.

    Especially if you are too busy to devote tons of time to what could otherwise be quick errands. I'm a grad student and need to pick up time sensitive samples from 40 miles away. It just isn't going to happen.
    You need a car.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  22. #22
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karmical
    i guess i don't take things too seriously because i have not read any of those oil/gas threads at all.

    living carfree to me has nothing to do with with oil or gas to me, i simply do it because i enjoy doing it, and it works for me right now as it has done for the past 4yrs or so, cause to tell you the truth i tend to forget exactly when it was.
    Your stoned, admit it.
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  23. #23
    Fatties Fit Fine carless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ___
    I've noticed the increasingly dogmatic turn that this forum has taken also -- I hope it can go back to folks just sharing tips/ideas about how to maneuver through western society w/o being shackled to a cage regardless of their "politics".
    By dogmatic you mean- unyielding, argumentative, postulating stringent theories, or just boring, not in your comfort zone, hopelessly complex, and not enough like you. Do you have sidewalks on every street, wide road shoulders and mass transit? How much of your tax dollars went to Boston for the "Big Dig"
    Not acknowledging it, or claiming that's political, would be great in a Bike- free forum.
    "shackled to a cage"
    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."
    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  24. #24
    Good Afternoon! SamHouston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carless
    You need a car.
    I guess you might out in the sticks. Too bad he's not around here, he could hire out the service I work for and have it brought to him in a Smartcar.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Thor29's Avatar
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    Personally, I like to see people talking about peak oil and the excesses of the car culture. Since America's obsession with the automobile is dependent on a cheap oil supply, oil obviously has something to do with it. I would guess that a large number of people who live car free in the USA are doing it both for practical (economical) reasons and for ideological (political) reasons.

    If you'd rather read a thread about bike trailers, then go ahead. No one is forcing you to read any philosophical/political threads. But I think this forum makes no sense without any discussion about car culture and reasons why or why not to be "car free". To not own a car, especially if you can afford one, is a political statement whether or not you intend it to be.

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