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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 12-19-05, 12:44 PM   #1
cosmo starr
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bikes not bombs

every 26 days in the US alone the equivalent number of those killed on 9/11 are killed in car related deaths....who threatens americans the most, pick your wars....thats just what ive been thinking about lately and my current way of explaining the value of bikes to people who havent realized
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Old 12-19-05, 02:04 PM   #2
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That's a mind-blowing realization.

Consider how much we've spent on pre-emptive/retaliatory "self-defense" because of 9/11, and how many lives we might have saved if we'd spent that much money on getting people out of their cars.

Nice one, cosmo starr.
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Old 12-19-05, 06:03 PM   #3
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I always get a lot of arguments when I say I feel sorry for cagers, but I do. If you added in the deaths caused by their sedentary lifestyle (not to mention illness and even deaths caused by pollution), you would have counted an even greater tragedy.
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Old 12-19-05, 09:56 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cosmo starr
every 26 days in the US alone the equivalent number of those killed on 9/11 are killed in car related deaths....who threatens americans the most, pick your wars....thats just what ive been thinking about lately and my current way of explaining the value of bikes to people who havent realized
Even with the advances in motorcar technology regarding airbags, seatbelts and chassis structure, it hasn't stopped the number of deaths or even reversed the increasing numbers. The reason is due to the increasing speeds, aggressive driving, larger cars and faster engines create devastating wrecks on the highway.
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Old 12-20-05, 05:46 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
Even with the advances in motorcar technology regarding airbags, seatbelts and chassis structure, it hasn't stopped the number of deaths or even reversed the increasing numbers. The reason is due to the increasing speeds, aggressive driving, larger cars and faster engines create devastating wrecks on the highway.
My impression is that the direct car deaths have dropped from the 50000 per year range to the high 40 thousand range. Near the end of the Vietnam war, people used to say the total American deaths in Vietnam was about the same as the yearly car deaths, so why all the protests against the war but not against cars? Car accidents kill more than gun accidents so why aren't people as vocal about banning cars as they are about banning guns?

Here in DC the city has noticed pedestrians getting killed by cars so they've decided to crack down on violators. There was an obituary in last Sunday's Washington Post for a man from an arts commission. He was struck by a car and killed. The obit forgot to mention that before he died, he was issued a ticket for causing the accident. The ticket part was reported earlier in the week. The police said he was at fault because he wasn't in a crosswalk. Coincidentally he was struck near our nation's first strip mall.

There is no way for me to walk to the grocery store without jaywalking since none of the streets surrounding my home have crosswalks. Now, homocidal Washington Post readers know that any pedestrian not in a crosswalk is fair game. I suppose this is yet another reason to bike rather than walk.
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Old 12-20-05, 07:03 PM   #6
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what? another reason to bike rather than walk? cagers seem to think cyclists are the same as pedestrians, anyway. except they're more polite to peds.
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Old 12-20-05, 09:11 PM   #7
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what? another reason to bike rather than walk? cagers seem to think cyclists are the same as pedestrians, anyway. except they're more polite to peds.
This has not been my experience. About a month ago I had to defend myself from a motorist WHILE I WAS WALKING. This hothead almost hit Jerry and me as he was making a left turn. We yelled something at him and he stopped his car in the middle of the intersection, with his wife and baby in it, and came at us with his fists raised. I punched him 3 quick ones in his head and he got back in his car and drove off. I have NEVER had anything close to this happen while I was riding.
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Old 12-20-05, 09:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
Even with the advances in motorcar technology regarding airbags, seatbelts and chassis structure, it hasn't stopped the number of deaths or even reversed the increasing numbers. The reason is due to the increasing speeds, aggressive driving, larger cars and faster engines create devastating wrecks on the highway.
Probably true, but I believe another big factor is the increasing number of miles driven.
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Old 12-25-05, 12:26 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve
Even with the advances in motorcar technology regarding airbags, seatbelts and chassis structure, it hasn't stopped the number of deaths or even reversed the increasing numbers. The reason is due to the increasing speeds, aggressive driving, larger cars and faster engines create devastating wrecks on the highway.
Don't forget higher centers of gravity.
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Old 12-25-05, 12:28 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Roody
This has not been my experience. About a month ago I had to defend myself from a motorist WHILE I WAS WALKING. This hothead almost hit Jerry and me as he was making a left turn. We yelled something at him and he stopped his car in the middle of the intersection, with his wife and baby in it, and came at us with his fists raised. I punched him 3 quick ones in his head and he got back in his car and drove off. I have NEVER had anything close to this happen while I was riding.
I can imagine the tongue lashing he got from his wife after he got back in the car, he probably got torn a new one. Glad you are fine.
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Old 12-25-05, 06:48 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Artkansas
I can imagine the tongue lashing he got from his wife after he got back in the car, he probably got torn a new one. Glad you are fine.
I'm surprised he got back in the car. If'd I'd lost my temper and done something that clueless with wife in the car to record the event for all posterity to hear and relive for all time, to be told by email to every last corner of the earth to every female friend she has, every time one of them decides to complain about guys..... I think suicide standing in a bed of fireants might be less painful.

Have pity.
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Old 12-25-05, 05:46 PM   #12
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I can imagine the tongue lashing he got from his wife after he got back in the car, he probably got torn a new one. Glad you are fine.
Bullies like this usually have their wives beaten into submission, I'm afraid. She probabaly doesn't dare to criticize him. One (of several) worries I had after this incident is that he took out his anger toward me on her.
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Old 12-26-05, 01:46 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Roody
Bullies like this usually have their wives beaten into submission, I'm afraid. She probabaly doesn't dare to criticize him. One (of several) worries I had after this incident is that he took out his anger toward me on her.
We'll have to tune into Jerry Springer to find out, I guess.
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Old 12-26-05, 01:50 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Roody
This has not been my experience. About a month ago I had to defend myself from a motorist WHILE I WAS WALKING. This hothead almost hit Jerry and me as he was making a left turn. We yelled something at him and he stopped his car in the middle of the intersection, with his wife and baby in it, and came at us with his fists raised. I punched him 3 quick ones in his head and he got back in his car and drove off. I have NEVER had anything close to this happen while I was riding.
huh...that's crazy. the worst i've ever had while walking is cars creeping forward on me while i'm in the crosswalk, or turning right and slamming on their brakes due to nearly hitting me. when that happens, i smile and shake my finger at them, like i'm saying "naughty, naughty", and then i walk really slowly in front of their car.
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Old 12-26-05, 02:26 PM   #15
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Bullies like this usually have their wives beaten into submission, I'm afraid. She probabaly doesn't dare to criticize him. One (of several) worries I had after this incident is that he took out his anger toward me on her.
Did you ever reconsider the wisdom of your own actions of yelling something at him after he was no longer a threat, and thus escalating an incident (that was over) to the next stage? I assume you were not yelling sweet words to him in front of his wife.

Next time someone like that might get out of the car in response to an insult with something in his hand other than a fist.
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Old 12-31-05, 11:06 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cosmo starr
every 26 days in the US alone the equivalent number of those killed on 9/11 are killed in car related deaths....who threatens americans the most, pick your wars....thats just what ive been thinking about lately and my current way of explaining the value of bikes to people who havent realized
Watch out the NSA might take your voters card and force you to attend a fundamentalist church. Who leaked this information?

Cosmo, I don't know why this is so over looked.

http://www.bts.gov/publications/nati...ble_01_11.html
1960=61,671,390 Passenger cars
2000=133,621,420 Passenger cars

This shows that the rate per mile is declining.
http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/

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Old 01-01-06, 02:16 PM   #17
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Did you ever reconsider the wisdom of your own actions of yelling something at him after he was no longer a threat, and thus escalating an incident (that was over) to the next stage? I assume you were not yelling sweet words to him in front of his wife.

Next time someone like that might get out of the car in response to an insult with something in his hand other than a fist.
Or then again, next time he may not be awake enough to get back to his car and family.
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Old 01-01-06, 07:47 PM   #18
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Or then again, next time he may not be awake enough to get back to his car and family.
Then again...
I suggest you take a look at this thread where there is some discussion about the wisdom/possible repercussions of yelling clever retorts at motorists who have already passed by a miffed cyclist:
Vehicular Assault/Attempted Homicide in San Francisco
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