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  1. #1001
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platy View Post
    The Internet offers equal opportunity insulting for everyone!

    Neil_B, if it makes any difference, weight wise I'm much closer to you than bluefoxicy. Us clydes can just keep riding and prove every day that bumblebees can fly regardless of what anyone else thinks.
    My weight has fluctuated a lot over the years and right now it's a lot higher than I'd like it to be. One thing I love about bikes is that I feel agile--even graceful--and also fast when I'm riding. These are feelings I don't have so much when I'm earthbound.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  2. #1002
    Dare to be weird!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    One thing I love about bikes is that I feel agile--even graceful--and also fast when I'm riding. These are feelings I don't have so much when I'm earthbound.
    Very well said. We've argued a lot in this thread about whether various things are simple or not. But the bicycle, 25 pounds of metal and rubber that lets fat old men go as fast as olympic medium distance runners with their own muscle power, now that's the essence of effective simplicity. And an underappreciated invention of brainiac brilliance, too.

  3. #1003
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platy View Post
    Very well said. We've argued a lot in this thread about whether various things are simple or not. But the bicycle, 25 pounds of metal and rubber that lets fat old men go as fast as olympic medium distance runners with their own muscle power, now that's the essence of effective simplicity. And an underappreciated invention of brainiac brilliance, too.
    Bikes are a great example of my constant refrain that "simple" and "technical" are not antonyms.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  4. #1004
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platy View Post
    The Internet offers equal opportunity insulting for everyone!

    Neil_B, if it makes any difference, weight wise I'm much closer to you than bluefoxicy. Us clydes can just keep riding and prove every day that bumblebees can fly regardless of what anyone else thinks.
    I just found it odd that someone jumped on I-Like-To-Bike for an on-topic comment and ignored the slam against fat people.

    BTW, I'm trying to simplify my life too. However, I don't have the assumption of moral superiority some posters do. If some BF posters want to have three TV sets in every room, party on. I don't.

    BTW, I just got back from a 22 mile hill sufferfest with a former RAAM rider. I was doing OK for much of it. Until I threw up. :-(

  5. #1005
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    My weight has fluctuated a lot over the years and right now it's a lot higher than I'd like it to be. One thing I love about bikes is that I feel agile--even graceful--and also fast when I'm riding. These are feelings I don't have so much when I'm earthbound.
    Ditto. I don't have a severe limp when riding. :-)

  6. #1006
    Senior Member Smallwheels's Avatar
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    Click the icon of the person you don't like. Look down the menu on the left and select "add to ignore list" and you won't ever read what that person types except when others quote them. It really makes life better.
    Last edited by Smallwheels; 07-01-11 at 08:48 PM.
    Smallwheels

    Take my stuff, please. I have way too much. My current goal is to have all of my possessions fit onto a large bicycle trailer. Really.

  7. #1007
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil_B View Post
    I just found it odd that someone jumped on I-Like-To-Bike for an on-topic comment and ignored the slam against fat people.
    I don't find it odd at all; it always comes from the same crowd of cheap shot BF snipers who can't handle their sacred cows being gored by logic. So they typically respond with personal attacks rather than respond with a logical or on-topic response.

  8. #1008
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post
    Click the icon of the person you don't like. Look down the menu on the left and select "add to ignore list" and you won't ever read what that person types except when others quote them. It really makes life better.
    Singing to and with the choir is very soothing isn't it? Very simple indeed. Never a discordant refrain to upset the equilibrium of the group think/group hugging session.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 07-02-11 at 10:18 AM.

  9. #1009
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    Much obliged to I-Like-to-Bike for crapping all over a thread I've been following for months now. I second the previous posters suggestion that ignoring ILTB is the best course of action and apologize for not following it myself.

  10. #1010
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaebberwock View Post
    Much obliged to I-Like-to-Bike for crapping all over a thread I've been following for months now. I second the previous posters suggestion that ignoring ILTB is the best course of action and apologize for not following it myself.
    Must not be following too closely:
    See http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12869439
    and
    See http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...1#post12869419

  11. #1011
    Has opinion, will express
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoltani View Post
    To me, I-Like-To-Bike, you seem like the kind of person that is unhappy with the way you live (and feel you are powerless to change it) and when you come in here and read a thread like this you see everything as an attack on you. You may live simply given your personal responsibilities or you may not. In fact we don't know, because all you do is berate those that post about their own experiences instead of sharing your own. As newspaperguy says, simple living is different for different people that have different responsibilities. That is what makes this thread interesting. There are people from all walks of life, all with different situations and responsibilities, and it is interesting and helpful to some of us to read about their idea of simplicity.

    IMO some of the things that people do for simplicity is not simple at all, for example washing clothes by hand. It is simpler to just throw them in a machine. But that is my opinion, someone else can have a different one. How do you judge if something is "simple"? Is it the time it takes? The money needed to do it? How much time do you have to work to pay for the washing machine, electricity, soap, etc versus the time sink of washing by hand? We all make our choices, and we don't have to agree on those choices.

    People often implore you, I-Like-To-Bike, to actually contribute to the thread. Tell us how you live and what you consider simple living, given your responsibilities and personal situation. Or are you even interested in trying to simplify your life?

    How do you expect us to empathize with you if you do not actually share your life and experiences with us?
    I am not an ILTB fan, but if you have hung around these forums as long as you state, you should have been able to piece together some of his story so you would understand where he's comilng from.

    For example he's been off doing your dirty work so you can smugly say you live simply and have the privilege of posting free opinion on forums like this.

    You also might know that he has lived in other parts of the world and engaged in cycling for much longer and in vastly different circumstances than you. He has a very basic philosophy to cycling -- as something that can serve people without them having to scream out about it.

    If you ever bothered to stop and think about what he says, you and your sycophants might also have a more enlightened view of cycling, its role in societies in both North America and elsewhere, and the politics that surrounds it. .

    There are many examples in the LCF forum of people who are intolerant of others' views. ILTB is held up as one, but it really comes down to whether his opponents actually can come up with logical and thoughtful arguments that can stand up in the real world, rather than based on fanciful thinking. Usually they can't.
    Dream. Dare. Do.

  12. #1012
    sniffin' glue zoltani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post

    For example he's been off doing your dirty work so you can smugly say you live simply and have the privilege of posting free opinion on forums like this.
    I'm not really smug about the way I live, but if that is the way you see it then there is probably no point in arguing about it.
    Those who are easily shocked should be shocked more often.

  13. #1013
    Fair-weather commuter aussie_grl14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
    You also might know that he has lived in other parts of the world and engaged in cycling for much longer and in vastly different circumstances than you. He has a very basic philosophy to cycling -- as something that can serve people without them having to scream out about it.
    I can understand that philosophy. However I have a problem with it: first, the point of a forum is coming together to discuss things instead of just going out and doing it. BF is a social outlet for all the activities encompassing bicycling. So railing on anyone who posts their response to the question "How simply do you live?" isn't a very productive use of the forum. Answering the question in this thread can be seen as boasting and I get that. I just don't think ILTB actually cares about this thread and is instead choosing to provoke others to respond to him in a way that derails the thread.

    Most of the people posting here seem to understand that there is a certain amount of privilege involved with having the choice of "living simply," and one topic which has come up several times has explored the contradictory position it puts us into. But I don't think that contradiction automatically invalidates the thread topic. If it were simple, the discussion wouldn't have lasted as long as it has.
    There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying.
    The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.

    Don't feed the trolls!

  14. #1014
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    I really hope we can get this thread back on track. There's no reason for either smugness or for hating on the concept of simple living. This thread is intended for the exchange of ideas about a certain philosophy--not for either attacking or defending the philosophy itself. In the modern world, it sure is nice to have a few places where personal and ideological differences are put to the side, and people concentrate on living a happier and more productive life.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  15. #1015
    Senior Member Smallwheels's Avatar
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    Keep It Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I really hope we can get this thread back on track.
    I agree. Just last night I started contemplating how life would be like living in a van. While I was on Youtube I came across a video of a guy doing it. That got me looking at a few more similar videos.

    Some of the people doing it were very experienced at it because they were doing it by choice. They had no immediate plans to change their lives. Most of them agreed they were saving money. That calculation only works if you already owned the vehicle. As a car free person, selecting such a lifestyle would mean spending an additional $1000 per month. That comes about because when owning a car one must always budget a couple of hundred dollars or more for future repairs. Otherwise when the thing breaks there wouldn't be money around to fix it (that is if you don't already have a huge savings account).

    Some people who live in vans, cars, or RVs, have chosen to keep many possessions in storage facilities. They couldn't give up everything. For single people living in cars it is understandable. There is no way to haul around all the common necessities of life in a Camry. The people living in full size vans could probably haul around all of their necessities. Of course I'm making these judgements according to my beliefs of what is a necessity. So it's skewed.

    Heat, water, clothing, and the ability to store food seem to be the fundamental needs. Electricity fits in there too. Having just those things is actually enough for some people to live very happy simple lives. They enjoy the travel, and ability to not be fixed in one spot, so much, that they see lots of possessions as burdens. I've watched more than one person on Youtube say this. Each one says it in such a way that you can hear the relief they feel in their voices. I've commented before that I know I'd want a bit more than the very basics needed for survival, but not much more.

    I'm doing an exercise today. I'm putting together a list of things I would need, and in the order they should be acquired, should I ever decide (or be forced) to live in a van. I already know everything I would need, but I don't know the best order to get them. With limited weekly funds for buying the necessary things, the order becomes important. The outside weather would determine the order for some of the items. Insulating the van might not be the optimum first step even though everything else would need to be installed afterwards. Would it be best to buy a battery bank, a propane heater, insulation, a portable shower, or any of the numerous things that make life near normal while living in a van? It's figuring out stuff like that which makes the exercise fun for me. Some people like doing crossword puzzles. I like planning for scenarios that come up in life or creating business models.
    Last edited by Smallwheels; 07-12-11 at 05:26 PM.
    Smallwheels

    Take my stuff, please. I have way too much. My current goal is to have all of my possessions fit onto a large bicycle trailer. Really.

  16. #1016
    Senior Member
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    This is a huge thread. Why not a subforum under carfree? I mean a lot of people will be like

    • Bedding options - Suggestions?
    • Kindle or traditional books? Both?
    • I have too much crap in my kitchen! Help!
    • How do you get by without a microwave?


    I mean look at this thread. I'm sure a good deal of the people here are "Well I ..." and somewhere else they're thinking "... but how do you manage..." I mean seriously, how many of you guys don't own a microwave OR a pop-up toaster? I don't. I own a toaster oven (way more useful than pop-up, and does most microwave things better), and I do own a crock pot. Could probably live without the crock pot; but the toaster oven is an escape mechanism to get away from firing up the full sized oven to reheat 1 pizza slice.

    And so it goes.
    Own: 2010 GT Tachyon 3.0
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  17. #1017
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluefoxicy View Post
    This is a huge thread. Why not a subforum under carfree? I mean a lot of people will be like

    • Bedding options - Suggestions?
    • Kindle or traditional books? Both?
    • I have too much crap in my kitchen! Help!
    • How do you get by without a microwave?


    I mean look at this thread. I'm sure a good deal of the people here are "Well I ..." and somewhere else they're thinking "... but how do you manage..." I mean seriously, how many of you guys don't own a microwave OR a pop-up toaster? I don't. I own a toaster oven (way more useful than pop-up, and does most microwave things better), and I do own a crock pot. Could probably live without the crock pot; but the toaster oven is an escape mechanism to get away from firing up the full sized oven to reheat 1 pizza slice.

    And so it goes.
    I was just thinking about the microwave. I don't own one because it doesn't work well with the type of food I enjoy, and I didn't want to use up all that counter space for an appliance I would use once a month. However, my family just moved in with me and they asked if they could have a microwave. They use it a lot becauwe they like convenience foods, and also they heat up a lot of leftovers. So having a MW is simpler for them, but a little less simple for me. Like they say, it's not about being anti-technology, it's about using appropriate technology.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  18. #1018
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I was just thinking about the microwave. I don't own one because it doesn't work well with the type of food I enjoy, and I didn't want to use up all that counter space for an appliance I would use once a month. However, my family just moved in with me and they asked if they could have a microwave. They use it a lot becauwe they like convenience foods, and also they heat up a lot of leftovers. So having a MW is simpler for them, but a little less simple for me. Like they say, it's not about being anti-technology, it's about using appropriate technology.
    Funny you should mention the MW. I seldom use one, but my bride does. The hotel I am currently "living" in was very applogetic that my room didn't have a MW, but it does have a small fridge, no problem here...maybe I should have asked for a discount

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
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    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
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  19. #1019
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
    Funny you should mention the MW. I seldom use one, but my bride does. The hotel I am currently "living" in was very applogetic that my room didn't have a MW, but it does have a small fridge, no problem here...maybe I should have asked for a discount

    Aaron
    I lived in a motel for several months, years ago. A MW was the only type od stove I had. Walmart was right across the street. I ate enough Hot Pockets and Lean Cuisines to last me a lifetime!


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  20. #1020
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I lived in a motel for several months, years ago. A MW was the only type od stove I had. Walmart was right across the street. I ate enough Hot Pockets and Lean Cuisines to last me a lifetime!
    Seen the latest Hot Pockets commercial? There is an awesome rod brake roadster parked against the wall. I saw the bike the first time...didn't realize it was a Hot Pockets commercial until the the third time around

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
    _Nicodemus

    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
    _krazygluon

  21. #1021
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    I've followed this thread intently since it's inception, and I am happy to finally be able to join the conversation in significant way.

    I've had a lot of different conversations with my wife on our living situation (we live in northern NJ, one of the areas with the highest cost of living in the US), and have come to an agreement on reducing our possessions and moving. All of the unused furniture is getting sold (dining set, end tables, bookshelves, lamps, etc). I recently finished digitizing our physical music collection (a little under 10 gigs of music), and I will be selling off our CDs. Unwanted books are being donated; we are avid readers.

    We are downsizing from a two bedroom apartment to a basement apartment in my father's home.

    It is a truly freeing feeling when simplifying one's life. Ultimately we have a condo that we need to get rid of, and we will be moving to Toronto, where I will then be able to get rid of my car all together.

  22. #1022
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    I love this thread! We are about to take a 45% pay cut due to a move (military posting). I won't be able to find work at our new location, so we must learn to live simply in order to manage on what little my husband makes. We plan to rent out the two spare rooms which will help pay the mortgage and property taxes. But we still want to save a fair % of hubbys income for the future. I plan on blogging my experience and will post a link once it's up and running.

    Appreciate the poster who started this thread, I look forward to reading more posts!

  23. #1023
    sniffin' glue zoltani's Avatar
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    I found this blog yesterday, interesting read...

    http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/
    Those who are easily shocked should be shocked more often.

  24. #1024
    Dare to be weird!
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    One thing I think I've learned from this thread is that car free living and simple/frugal living are mutually enabling lifestyle choices. It's easier to be car free if one has a simple/frugal way of life, and vice versa.

    I should probably refer to mode of transportation and level of consumption as lifestyle conditions instead of lifestyle choices. They aren't always subject to one's free choice.

  25. #1025
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platy View Post
    I should probably refer to mode of transportation and level of consumption as lifestyle conditions instead of lifestyle choices. They aren't always subject to one's free choice.
    Sometimes I'm not even sure when free choice is involved. For example, I've always said that I could afford to have a car if I wanted one, so it must be my free choice not to have one. At this point, however, I have long been accustomed to not spending my money on a car. That means I can no longer afford a car without giving up some other expenditure. That's pretty much the same thing as not being able to afford a car. In other words, I'm no longer being free to choose whether I want a car.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

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