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  1. #126
    Year-round cyclist
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    Here in Québec, one cannot deduct rent nor mortgage. Taxes may be deducted for very low income families. I don't remember the figures, but I am not eligible for that.
    Michel Gagnon
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  2. #127
    carfree
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    Want to keep things simple? Stay single.
    Nothing will increase your worldly possessions load like a wifette. Even a female roommate will leave no flat surfaces uncluttered. Not that I'm setting out to be sexist here, it just that women like to line the nest with things, cover the walls with things, cover the tables, desks, countertops, dressers, night-stands, bathroom/pantry/cupboard shelves with "stuff". I think it's part of the early reptillian brain behavior humans have which is geared towards securing a mate, marking territory, and asserting dominance. :-)

    I also like simplicity, so while I'm being such a misogynistic bugger, I often wish I'd taken my own advice.

    Cheers.

  3. #128
    Senior Member CTAC's Avatar
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    I have moved *twelve* times in the last ten years. Three times I could only have as much stuff as fits into suitcases; and three times as much as my compact car can fit inside. I think, have only one thing with me that I own more then 10 years - my toorka. I do not care about stuff anymore at all. Why care, if it goes away anytime soon.

  4. #129
    ulle53 ulle53's Avatar
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    having a disability that prevents me from having a drivers liscence and totaly hating to ask anyone for help, I do just about everything with my bikes, did have to buy a trailer haul larger purchases home with. Those little trailers to carry 2 kids in work great for grocerys and with the top down I have carried a recliner home.

  5. #130
    Senior Member pakole's Avatar
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    WOW, a recliner!! That is hot.
    ---
    Is morality determine by when no human is watching you or when no being is watching you? For if it is the latter, I can not be a moral person for I know God is with me each and every day.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by demo9orgon
    Want to keep things simple? Stay single.
    Nothing will increase your worldly possessions load like a wifette. Even a female roommate will leave no flat surfaces uncluttered. Not that I'm setting out to be sexist here, it just that women like to line the nest with things, cover the walls with things, cover the tables, desks, countertops, dressers, night-stands, bathroom/pantry/cupboard shelves with "stuff". I think it's part of the early reptillian brain behavior humans have which is geared towards securing a mate, marking territory, and asserting dominance. :-)

    I also like simplicity, so while I'm being such a misogynistic bugger, I often wish I'd taken my own advice.

    Cheers.
    LOL, Thanks for the good laugh. Yea I have to agree with you for the most part, although I have one female friend who has no need for excess material possessions and useless junk, but she is one of a kind, and obviously we get along extremely well, since she is not into image and shopping for new things all the time like so many other women I know. I also had another female friend who was similar, so not all are possession-oriented but sadly, the majority I know do fit your description.
    "Basically, herding, hunting and gathering are the most efficient ways to live, and very little has changed about that, regardless of all our knowledge of biology and technology. Cain has done his best to kill Abel whenever possible, but he is really killing himself in the long run, and never really succeeding in killing Abel in the short run, because Abel is hiding in his genes, and pops up now and again."-Arthur Noll

  7. #132
    Senior Member Caspar_s's Avatar
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    Hmmm, women gatherer... men hunter.

    Men need to be able to move and want to have as little as possible and women want to nest and have lots of things around. Also men want to get around to spread their genes, while women want to stay in one place and have kids..

    I think I'm part gypsy. I've lived in three countries and this one is starting to grate... I've been here 9 years now - time to move! (30 years - 3 countries - about 10 each)

    My one sister is in Japan, my other one and my mum is in South Africa, my dad and other sister is in England, my Grandparents are in Australia, I am in Canada.

  8. #133
    Senior Member Sir Lunch-a-lot's Avatar
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    This thread has made me consider some of the things I loved about camp. When I worked at summer camp (which is situated in a nice little forest with a nice river, etc), I didn't have a lot of stuff. Basically, I had my clothes, sleeping gear, flashlight, bible, a few books, paper... Well, I had a lot less stuff than at home. I had a large bag (slighly bigger than a suitcase) of clothes, and misc, my sleeping bags, and what I had in my backpack. By the end of nearly 2 months, I had accumulated a little bit more than that. But still, even though I had so little compared with what I had a home, I had a blast. I am very much into computers, and it didn't bother me much that I didn't have access to computers much at all (this camp has a policy against campers bringing electronics aside from medical devices, watches, and flashlights. It mostly applys to staff too, but since we're staff, we can have some electronics to use on off time). Aside from the times that we had the sterio going in the staff lounge, the only music I had was my portable radio (a walkman/radio combo with the motors ripped out) and our own singing (we did a lot of that). Of course, there is plenty of "stuff" to use at camp (the costumes, art supplys, camping supplys, and a few other odds and ends), but on the whole, it was very simple living. Tv wasn't commonplace (for most staff). On the weekends the few of us staying would get together and watch a few movies, and have a great time (TV was a treat). I had a few hours of internet time on the weekend, and so on.

    On the whole, it was a great, simple lifestyle. (And even though I didn't do much bikeriding, I lost 30 pounds... unfortunately, being back at home and not riding enough, I've gained them back). The best part about our simply lifestyle was that we could really enjoy the simple pleasures, and each other.

    Camp is also a very rustic place. During the week, most of us slept in small cabins (uninsulated, 1 roomed, 8 bunks, 1 wood stove per cabin, no electricity or lights, just our flashlights), and that was awesome. Not only was it a great experience simplicity wise, but also a great growing experience for my Christian faith.

    Anyway, as simple as our lifestyle working at a summer camp was, at home it doesn't ammount to the same thing. As I read this thread, I thought about my own bedroom and how I have this tendancy to collect a lot of junk and stuff I think I will use, but never do. So, a big thanks goes to this thread, because for the first time in a couple of years, I gave my room a major clean up. 3 orange mister clean bags of garbage out the door, plus a bunch of books and other stuff are going bye bye (I took out enough books and stuff that I was able to take out one of my bookshelves, and in its place, got a bedside table. My mom was going to buy one for like... $100, but I thought that in some ways that kind of ran contrary to my ultimate "simple living" goal. Fortunately, she thought of cart from an old hospital that was nearly the same size as what I was wanting in a bedside table, and so I now have a nice, lightweight, free bedside table.)

    And since I am graduating this year, it will be a good idea to learn to live with less for Bibleschool and such. Not only that, but to learn not to buy/accumulate, it will be really helpful down the road. (Right now it's easy not to buy a lot, because the nearest major economic center is about 30km away, and I don't go there that often, and even when I do, not a lot catches my fancy. But even so, accumulating things is something that I need to work at).

    But, yeah, I hope to continue eliminating various items from my room, (and even from my little hideout in the basement, maybe. Or maybe I'll take the easy way out of that and let my folks keep my little setup. It's not like I can see me taking most of that stuff with me anywhere).

    Yeah, thats enough for my ramblings for now... thanks for this thread!
    Pythagorean Theorum: 24 words. Lord's Prayer: 66 words. 10 Commandments: 179 words. Gettysburg Address: 286 words. Declaration of Independence: 1,300 words. U.S. Government Regulations on the Sale of Cabbage: 26,911 words.

  9. #134
    Senior Member iBarna's Avatar
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    Ah, the own vs. rent debate. As you can guess, I'm a renter. And as a non American, I do think that Americans have a big obsession with "owning" a house. I dunno... I'm simply not much interested in signing a mortgage so that I can own a house in 30 years and perhaps make some money with reselling it. I'm happy to live off a salary and actually think that I'm safer this way than with such a long term investment. I can move / change / adapt on a moment's notice with little hassle. I easily stay ahead of the curve so to speak.

    What surprises me though even more than the American "I need to own" is the reactions I get when they learn that I rent and have no interest in owning a house. They look at me like I'm crazy. I don't know, my life philosophy is quite common in Europe... many people are like that. Many peole live their lives, even raise families while renting.

    I may own a house at one point. I'm not diametrically opposed to the idea. But for now I see no reason.

  10. #135
    Senior Member iBarna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by attercoppe
    Ouch! Next time you're at the store, look at prices of laundry detergent and figure cost per load. Even the fancy expensive stuff is usually quite a bit cheaper (per load) than the one load boxes they sell at the laundromat. (For instance, I recently figured my current bottle of detergent runs about 15 cents a load - the boxes at my laundromat are 75 cents, some places they're even more.) This is a good example of something that can nickel and dime one to death - it might seem fairly cheap to buy the little boxes there, but when you figure up how much you're actually paying over, say, a year - you can really save a lot. As with many things, the bigger bottles/boxes are cheaper (per load) than the smaller ones. I buy the huge jugs of whatever kind of detergent, and to avoid having to carry the whole thing with me when I walk or ride to the laundromat, I decant one or two loads' worth into a smaller bottle.
    Yes but as I pointed out a few times... I do not live simply so that I can save as much money as possible. To me simple living is a luxury, actually. I know and accept that I pay more for the luxury of not having to worry about, own, repair, replace, etc stuff. This is the country of services and I love using them.

    Here's an example... I had to pick up some packages yesterday at UPS. I rode my bike there, locked it up next to the building, got the packages. Then took a cab with the packages home. I could have walked (about half an hour) but I didn't. I hate walking, especially with awkward boxes in my hand. Then I took a cab back to my bike. I biked to a restaurant where I ate (that box business sure made me hungry!!), then biked home. This is something very typical for me to do, and from where I'm standing, it makes perfect sense. I hate driving, walking or the bus, and only occasionally enjoy to cook. I love biking, eating out, and taking care of chores quickly. I realize that I could have saved money by walking both ways and cooking something at home. But honestly, I am not hurting for money that much. What can I say, I'm a 29 year old IT guy in San Francisco with no car, no wife, no nothing -- you get the idea.

    On the whole I am saving money, since having no car just reduces my expenses a ton. But this is more of an added bonus to my main objective. Don't get me wrong: I don't throw around with money for sure... but if I have to spend even 20% more money in order to reduce my STUFF and WORRIES by a great deal, then I'll do it. My philosophy!

  11. #136
    Senior Member pakole's Avatar
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    tru tru. That one think that advocate in the ministry that I am a part of. It is not like you could not go and get a mortgage, but there are other ways to do things. That is also another reason I tried to go for an apartment or condo.
    ---
    Is morality determine by when no human is watching you or when no being is watching you? For if it is the latter, I can not be a moral person for I know God is with me each and every day.

  12. #137
    Senior Member Sir Lunch-a-lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iBarna
    Yes but as I pointed out a few times... I do not live simply so that I can save as much money as possible. To me simple living is a luxury, actually. I know and accept that I pay more for the luxury of not having to worry about, own, repair, replace, etc stuff. This is the country of services and I love using them.
    You know, I actually see a certain logic in that statement. At first I thought that regularly indulging in such "luxuries" seemed like a waste of money and kind of against the idea of simple living. I have rethought that initial thinking, because if you are not spending your money buying lots of "stuff" or "car payments" and so on, then you (theoretically) could have plenty to spend on services. And the anti worry factor is another great reason.
    Pythagorean Theorum: 24 words. Lord's Prayer: 66 words. 10 Commandments: 179 words. Gettysburg Address: 286 words. Declaration of Independence: 1,300 words. U.S. Government Regulations on the Sale of Cabbage: 26,911 words.

  13. #138
    Senior Member attercoppe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iBarna
    Yes but as I pointed out a few times... I do not live simply so that I can save as much money as possible. To me simple living is a luxury, actually. I know and accept that I pay more for the luxury of not having to worry about, own, repair, replace, etc stuff. This is the country of services and I love using them.

    This is something very typical for me to do, and from where I'm standing, it makes perfect sense.
    Good, iBarna - I'm glad that, unlike many, you've thought it out, and you do what you do because it makes sense to you and fits with your philosophy, not because it's the easy way, or it's what everyone else does. We need more independent thinkers!

  14. #139
    Senior Member attercoppe's Avatar
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    My neighbor is making a trip tomorrow to Colorado Springs, where his house is, to check up on it, water the plants, etc (he's currently renting an apartment here - it's a job thing). I'm gonna ride with him and keep him company (about 2 hours each way). We both also thought it would be a good opportunity for me to do any kind of shopping I can't do in this little town, since I don't drive and so couldn't go myself. But other than some new walking/riding shoes, I can't think of anything to get! Hooray for not unnecessarily acquiring more stuff!

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    Quote Originally Posted by attercoppe
    In the US, mortgage payments are typically tax-deductible (this is why it can be a good idea to refi a mortgage and include enough cash out to pay off cars, credit cards, etc. - you're still effectively making payments on all those separate loans, but it's now all one payment, and it's tax deductible).

    But I've never heard of rent being tax-deductible - is this only Canada, or is it true in the US as well?

    Almost right. The interest is deductible, not the entire mortgage payment.

  16. #141
    Senior Member attercoppe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AverageCommuter
    Almost right. The interest is deductible, not the entire mortgage payment.
    True, good point.

  17. #142
    05 Roubaix Comp Double
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    Quote Originally Posted by attercoppe
    In the US, mortgage payments are typically tax-deductible (this is why it can be a good idea to refi a mortgage and include enough cash out to pay off cars, credit cards, etc. - you're still effectively making payments on all those separate loans, but it's now all one payment, and it's tax deductible).

    But I've never heard of rent being tax-deductible - is this only Canada, or is it true in the US as well?
    So refi to a 30,pay of car and cc and really you are paying for those for 30 years.
    Touch every 3rd person and you'll find an idiot.

  18. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by iBarna
    Ah, the own vs. rent debate. As you can guess, I'm a renter. And as a non American, I do think that Americans have a big obsession with "owning" a house. I dunno... I'm simply not much interested in signing a mortgage so that I can own a house in 30 years and perhaps make some money with reselling it. I'm happy to live off a salary and actually think that I'm safer this way than with such a long term investment. I can move / change / adapt on a moment's notice with little hassle. I easily stay ahead of the curve so to speak.

    What surprises me though even more than the American "I need to own" is the reactions I get when they learn that I rent and have no interest in owning a house. They look at me like I'm crazy. I don't know, my life philosophy is quite common in Europe... many people are like that. Many peole live their lives, even raise families while renting.

    I may own a house at one point. I'm not diametrically opposed to the idea. But for now I see no reason.
    Lets see. Bought my house for 80,000 and today it will be paid off in 7 years and as of today its worth around 600,000. Thats called a long term investment. Nobody tells me to turn down my music,i dont here anybody else but me having sex,i always have a place to park and a garage to work in,my rules,not somebody eles.
    Touch every 3rd person and you'll find an idiot.

  19. #144
    Senior Member attercoppe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    So refi to a 30,pay of car and cc and really you are paying for those for 30 years.
    Yes, you can look at it that way, in essence you are paying your mortgage payment, plus a much smaller CC/auto payment over the life of the mortgage. The point is, you're going to have to pay it off one way or another, why not pay it all off at once and trade 20%+ compounding interest (CC) for 2%-6% simple interest? Especially considering that the average American's credit card balance is what, $8000 now; and most people only make the minimum payments each month.



    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Lets see. Bought my house for 80,000 and today it will be paid off in 7 years and as of today its worth around 600,000. Thats called a long term investment.
    Good for you. The point is (as some have already said) that for iBarna, and for others, owning a house is not considered to currently be a wise personal choice, just as for some, like you, it is. Of course (also as previously mentioned), to realize anything on your investment, you must sell the home. (Hopefully for you there's no real estate slump in the next seven years.) If you do sell your home, then you...buy another home and start over?

  20. #145
    Senior Member iBarna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Lets see. Bought my house for 80,000 and today it will be paid off in 7 years and as of today its worth around 600,000. Thats called a long term investment.
    All right, but I don't like long-term investments likethat, because I don't know what I will do long-term. I may move to another country, I may change my life upside down, whatever. I like to stay flexible.. There's other ways to make my money work for me than buying a house; such as investing.

    Nobody tells me to turn down my music,i dont here anybody else but me having sex
    Actually that's true for me too. Okay there would probably be complaints if I would blast loud music at 2 AM, but I don't find it difficult not to do that.

    i always have a place to park and a garage to work in,my rules,not somebody eles.
    I don't have a car.

    ...and I have 5 Indian restaurants in two blocks walking distance. Can you feel me??

  21. #146
    Senior Member attercoppe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iBarna
    All right, but I don't like long-term investments likethat, because I don't know what I will do long-term. I may move to another country, I may change my life upside down, whatever. I like to stay flexible.. There's other ways to make my money work for me than buying a house; such as investing.

    Okay there would probably be complaints if I would blast loud music at 2 AM, but I don't find it difficult not to do that.

    I don't have a car.

    ...and I have 5 Indian restaurants in two blocks walking distance. Can you feel me??
    I feel you! Preach it, brother!

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by attercoppe
    Yes, you can look at it that way, in essence you are paying your mortgage payment, plus a much smaller CC/auto payment over the life of the mortgage. The point is, you're going to have to pay it off one way or another, why not pay it all off at once and trade 20%+ compounding interest (CC) for 2%-6% simple interest? Especially considering that the average American's credit card balance is what, $8000 now; and most people only make the minimum payments each month.





    Good for you. The point is (as some have already said) that for iBarna, and for others, owning a house is not considered to currently be a wise personal choice, just as for some, like you, it is. Of course (also as previously mentioned), to realize anything on your investment, you must sell the home. (Hopefully for you there's no real estate slump in the next seven years.) If you do sell your home, then you...buy another home and start over?

    Nope,i'll die here. Thats a long term investment. I was thinking about retirement when i bought the house.
    Touch every 3rd person and you'll find an idiot.

  23. #148
    Senior Member attercoppe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Nope,i'll die here. Thats a long term investment. I was thinking about retirement when i bought the house.
    Okay, if you're never going to sell it, how is that an investment? That's like writing a check to a securities broker and saying, "Buy some mutual funds or something, but I never want my money back, or any of the money it might make."

    You say you were thinking about retirement, do you mean you plan to take out loans against the value of your house to provide a salary? Or that you want a paid-off house to live in by the time you're retired? Either way, that still doesn't make it an investment.

  24. #149
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    The plan is to have it paid off by retirement and stay. After that who knows what will happen and by just about everybody that knows what they are doing,a house is the number 1 investment you should do. Now i got in when it was 80,000 and now that its woreth 600,000,i call that a investment that i can sell if i need to for money,leave to my kids to help them or stay there and not worry about a landlord. BTW,what are you doing for money when your 60? If i buy for 80,000 and sell for 600,000,i'm thinking thats an investment but maybe i have this all wrong. BTW,anyone that would rather be in an apartment and pay for nothing then a house to own is nuts. I've lived in rented houses,apartments and mobil homes and it sucked,but hey,thats me.
    Touch every 3rd person and you'll find an idiot.

  25. #150
    Senior Member pakole's Avatar
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    I think we are getting off topic. The OP was talking about simplicity. While investments can be included in a simple life, this post along with some other has lost the point of the OP, so if anything this post should talk about how paying a mortgage for a house makes the poster feels that his or her life is simpler.
    ---
    Is morality determine by when no human is watching you or when no being is watching you? For if it is the latter, I can not be a moral person for I know God is with me each and every day.

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