Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    My Bikes
    2006 Kona Coiler Supreme, 2007 Dobermann Pinscher.
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thought it would be fun to come up with a mathematical formula for much of what I'm reading in this forum.

    Part of the reason I want to come up with this is to analyze why I'm having a hard time going more car-light or car-free.

    This may be useless and completely bias to me or maybe it can be tweaked to be more applicable to a wider audience but here goes:

    These are the variables I've gleaned from threads and thought up: (range for all is >=0, except weather)
    A = Money saved in cutting automobile expenses (gas, insurance, registration, maintenance, traffic tickets, parking)
    t = Traffic (stress reduced by not driving)
    D = Distance or Time spent commuting to primary daily location by bicycle
    d = Distance or Time spent commuting to secondary locations (groceries, gym, friends', lessons)
    I = Monthly Income
    N = Number of children or dependents
    g = INABILITY for indepedent mobility of children and dependents eg. too young/old or infirm.
    H = Health/Fitness
    S = Previous cycling experience/skill
    F = Fun derived from biking
    P = Pride or endorphins released (good feeling) from being a carfree advocate/different lifestyle
    B = Fear/traffic dangers/safety of neighborhood
    W = Weather at given season (range is -infinite to +infinite and subjective to you, maybe u like rain)
    r = Risk of bicycle theft
    e = Existing clothing and equipment for cycling suitable for given weather
    L = Laziness (and poor time management)
    T = Quality of public transit and taxi service
    M = Weight of backpack, stuff you have to lug around
    C = Additional time spent (over car) cycling, locking up, getting dressed

    Code:
    Carfree living = A + t - D - 2d - r + T + H/0.4M + (2F*S*e)^W + 1.5P + B/S
                     ----------------------------------------------------------
                                   L*C + I + N^g
    I don't konw whether or not I should include, X = Bicycle friendliness of city (urban planning, bike racks and bike routes), into the function. Also, Y = Support network (this forum and other like-minded people), dunno if I would include this as a variable either.

    I'd say some of the constants depends on yourself.

    Edit: Ooops. the relationship with weather is messed up. Let me see if i can fix that
    Last edited by quintessence22; 01-26-06 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Dare to be weird!
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Austin TX
    My Bikes
    Hybridized 1970s Coppi road bike; Townie city cruiser
    Posts
    1,990
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think what you're getting at is that there are specific quantitative factors that facilitate or inhibit the ability to be carfree?

  3. #3
    cool babies... chipko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Puget Sound
    My Bikes
    Surly Long Haul Trucker, Trek fixie(Stolen), Gary Fisher MTB
    Posts
    71
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think it is really interesting to see one persons deciding factors, pro and con, all layed out like that. To me it is interesting to see what motivates another person. Many of the factors in your calculus were not apart of my reasoning and the biggest factors in my logic are nowhere to be found in your formula. fascinating.

  4. #4
    beginner budster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Somerset, NJ, USA
    My Bikes
    Trek 800, Gary Fisher Advance, Trek 2300 Pro
    Posts
    765
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    (As) car free (as possible) = fun + challenge + the right thing to do.

    That's pretty much my equation.
    Path of Abundance: Be Kind, be Generous, be Content, be Honest and be Aware.

    The first great gift we can bestow on others is a good example. -Thomas Morell
    A thimble of patience is worth more than a bushel of brains. -Dutch Proverb
    Never pass up the chance to keep your mouth shut. -Anonymous Cowboy

  5. #5
    more ape than man timmhaan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    nyc
    Posts
    8,093
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    some of those things you can't quantify though. for example, how would you assign a value to "quality of public transit" or "laziness". assign it a number based on what? interesting idea though...

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    philly
    My Bikes
    84 level, 650c harry havnoonian track
    Posts
    217
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think you left out stubborness, bragging rights(although I guess that sorta falls under pride), the determination to remain "true", public-transit induced depression, the desire to make just getting to work an adventure, a growing adrenaline addiction, etc etc

    I think those are important reasons to me
    rock hard, ride fixed.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SF Bay
    Posts
    505
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If my high school algebra teacher would have made equations like this i would have payed more attention in class.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, AB
    My Bikes
    2006 Kona Coiler Supreme, 2007 Dobermann Pinscher.
    Posts
    21
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by timmhaan
    some of those things you can't quantify though. for example, how would you assign a value to "quality of public transit" or "laziness". assign it a number based on what? interesting idea though...
    Yes, I'd agree most of the variables are impossible to quantify; but it's fun for me to assign weights to each. Laziness is a real problem and a bad excuse for me, I know I can't quantify that one and sometimes it changes day by day.
    What I really wanted to see was some discussion about what are your most important factors or less important ones. Chipko, I'm intrigued as to what was in your logic and/or emotional reasons for carfree lifestyle.

    I still have to fix the relationship for weather, because as it currently stands, negative weather isn't properly adjusting my equation and throws it completely off when appropriate clothing for highly negative weather exists. For me, weather makes a difference in how much fun I have, and fun has a large weighting.

    Anyway, in February there's a bridge closing up for 9 months that I take by car when I drive to school. I hope that's enough incentive for me cancel my insurance. Of course you can see in my equation just how much such an event will affect my decision.

  9. #9
    nub Brad M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    The Hammer, Ontario
    Posts
    263
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    what

  10. #10
    Senior Member Silverexpress's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Berkley, Michigan
    My Bikes
    Commuter(s), MTB(s), bent(s), folder(s) and a road.
    Posts
    593
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Op...what answer(number) did you come up with for yourself?
    Regards,
    Jose

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i must admit i'm not auto-free, i keep my truck, it's a necessity out here when the next 'town' is over 50 miles away over very rugged terrain...i've been riding my bike solely for 6 months...whenever i use the truck (groceries, large items, supermarket..) i make certain i do at least three errands...so on friday night, i do the laundry, get groceries, get something from a store and then get home and done...i've been in this pattern for a couple months now...it's really great, i know how much of anything to buy in terms of food...i'm better at planning and organizing and having patience to do something when the time is right....now that i think more like this, i can see that the majority of people don't think like this...

    i guess i kind of rambled here but i feel a little better knowing that i'm not contributing much to the over congestion of traffic or greenhouse gases

    and don't you just hate getting looked at like animals by people passing by in cars...it's funny, i feel like an animal at the zoo

  12. #12
    Every lane is a bike lane Chris L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia - passionfruit capital of the universe!
    Posts
    9,622
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by matt_savvy
    I think you left out stubborness, bragging rights(although I guess that sorta falls under pride), the determination to remain "true", public-transit induced depression, the desire to make just getting to work an adventure, a growing adrenaline addiction, etc etc
    The thing is, a lot of those things would probably fade over time. In my case, my ride to work is hardly anything to brag over -- a flat 14km round trip pales into insignificance when I've been known to do day rides of 250km+ with over 3,000 metres of climbing in my spare time. The sense of pride over not polluting fades away when you realise that one person is not going to save the world. Stubborness and any determination to remain "true" tend to fall away as we become older and more cynical. The sense of adventure of riding to work dissipates as we become used to conditions -- even riding through gridlock doesn't seem that exciting to me anymore.

    What keeps me going is a combination of money and convenience. I can ride to work in 15 minutes while people in cars often take closer to an hour to drive it. I'm not paying for fuel -- in fact, my only awareness of fuel prices is through the whining in the media. I can lock my bike right next to the door at the local supermarket, which saves having to trudge all the way across a carpark. Oh yeah, and my Monday ride to work can sometimes act as a nice "recovery ride" from the weekend. Pretty much all the other things are really side benefits by comparison.
    "I am never going to flirt with idleness again" - Roy Keane
    "We invite everyone to question the entire culture we take for granted." - Manic Street Preachers.
    My blog.
    My bike tours. Japan tour page under construction.

  13. #13
    nomad
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    on the road
    My Bikes
    mtn bike
    Posts
    25
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by quintessence22
    Thought it would be fun to come up with a mathematical formula for much of what I'm reading in this forum.

    Part of the reason I want to come up with this is to analyze why I'm having a hard time going more car-light or car-free.

    This may be useless and completely bias to me or maybe it can be tweaked to be more applicable to a wider audience but here goes:

    These are the variables I've gleaned from threads and thought up: (range for all is >=0, except weather)
    A = Money saved in cutting automobile expenses (gas, insurance, registration, maintenance, traffic tickets, parking)
    t = Traffic (stress reduced by not driving)
    D = Distance or Time spent commuting to primary daily location by bicycle
    d = Distance or Time spent commuting to secondary locations (groceries, gym, friends', lessons)
    I = Monthly Income
    N = Number of children or dependents
    g = INABILITY for indepedent mobility of children and dependents eg. too young/old or infirm.
    H = Health/Fitness
    S = Previous cycling experience/skill
    F = Fun derived from biking
    P = Pride or endorphins released (good feeling) from being a carfree advocate/different lifestyle
    B = Fear/traffic dangers/safety of neighborhood
    W = Weather at given season (range is -infinite to +infinite and subjective to you, maybe u like rain)
    r = Risk of bicycle theft
    e = Existing clothing and equipment for cycling suitable for given weather
    L = Laziness (and poor time management)
    T = Quality of public transit and taxi service
    M = Weight of backpack, stuff you have to lug around
    C = Additional time spent (over car) cycling, locking up, getting dressed

    Code:
    Carfree living = A + t - D - 2d - r + T + H/0.4M + (2F*S*e)^W + 1.5P + B/S
                     ----------------------------------------------------------
                                   L*C + I + N^g
    I don't konw whether or not I should include, X = Bicycle friendliness of city (urban planning, bike racks and bike routes), into the function. Also, Y = Support network (this forum and other like-minded people), dunno if I would include this as a variable either.

    I'd say some of the constants depends on yourself.

    Edit: Ooops. the relationship with weather is messed up. Let me see if i can fix that
    Living car-free and living free from certain items of modern technology in general has absolutely nothing to do with mathematics or science to me. Economics plays a part, but it's mostly about qualitative freedom, the freedom to live according to how you choose. More importantly, the kind of freedom that you cannot measure according to scientific or mathematical methods. The kind of freedom that one does not receive according to instructions from experts or technicians. Anyone can come up with trivial formulas utilizing a bunch of numbers and symbols to attempt to explain fundamental human needs/impulses and in doing so woo and impress a certain segment of society in much the same way a magician woos and impresses their audience but it nonetheless remains an illusion, a feeble attempt to explain the unknown with numbers and symbols, flash and glitter, nothing more.

    I am sure the previous will anger some, but you know, I see it for what it is. The cult of science and mathematics has certainly swallowed many in it's wake. So many true believers have died for the cult, so many martyrs line the history books to bring us the wonderful labor-saving inventions and devices, all for the illusion of progress, and many more will continue to do so. I used to engage in writing with computer programming languages, solving physics problems and the like, but in the end it all remains fluff and trivial games. Before someone rails at me to exhalt the virtues of modern science and mathematics, the human being is better off being in control of their own lives utilizing their own small-scale technology that they can manufacture and maintain on their own or through participation in a self-sufficient community, rather than having to rely on mediation from an external third party who controls the means of resource extraction and manufacturing their technology. Trying to speak or understand why some live car-free in terms of science and mathematics seems to me just another way to attempt to categorize and introduce order into something that is inherently outside the realm of that way of thinking.
    "Basically, herding, hunting and gathering are the most efficient ways to live, and very little has changed about that, regardless of all our knowledge of biology and technology. Cain has done his best to kill Abel whenever possible, but he is really killing himself in the long run, and never really succeeding in killing Abel in the short run, because Abel is hiding in his genes, and pops up now and again."-Arthur Noll

  14. #14
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    18,963
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by madnomad
    I am sure the previous will anger some, but you know, I see it for what it is. The cult of science and mathematics has certainly swallowed many in it's wake. So many true believers have died for the cult, so many martyrs line the history books to bring us the wonderful labor-saving inventions and devices, all for the illusion of progress, and many more will continue to do so. I used to engage in writing with computer programming languages, solving physics problems and the like, but in the end it all remains fluff and trivial games.
    When did the Unabomber move to Canada to continue his manifesto? Hopefully he will not be allowed to mail packages.

  15. #15
    Dare to be weird!
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Austin TX
    My Bikes
    Hybridized 1970s Coppi road bike; Townie city cruiser
    Posts
    1,990
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    When did the Unabomber move to Canada to continue his manifesto? Hopefully he will not be allowed to mail packages.
    I don't think madnomad is the Unabomber.

  16. #16
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    18,963
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Platy
    I don't think madnomad is the Unabomber.
    Probably not and let's hope not. Madnomad probably is a noble fellow who just happens to share the same philosophy as that fruitcake Unabomber.

  17. #17
    ___
    ___ is offline
    . ___'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    When did the Unabomber move to Canada to continue his manifesto? Hopefully he will not be allowed to mail packages.
    LOL, madnomad has a point though in regards to cycling....btw, I think Zerzan's manuscripts were a little better.

  18. #18
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    18,963
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ___
    LOL, madnomad has a point though in regards to cycling....btw, I think Zerzan's manuscripts were a little better.
    I don't know, their writings indicate to me as if they shared the same bong. The Unabomber was a born again simple-life bicycling mad nomad himself; while sending his letters-bombs.
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 01-29-06 at 04:59 PM.

  19. #19
    Science Fanboy KrisPistofferson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    POS Tennessee
    My Bikes
    Gary Fisher Simple City 8, Litespeed Obed
    Posts
    7,596
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ILTB rules!
    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Hitchens
    What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,391
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I am with madnomad!!

    I agree the dominant culture tries to quantify, rationalize and weigh everything and that can be a real evil thing and should not be extended to everything. Making references and comparisons to insanity, bongs and convicted felons is pretty funny but if anybody means it, it is also pretty weak. Especially when you consider the stark contrast between those silly statements and Nomads eloquently written opinion. His opinion has merit i think. Disagree vehemently if you like but i don't know about namecalling and such.

    In this case though the formula seems to have been made in good fun and for good reasons (unless OP happens to be some sort of evil Marketeer working for Trek trying to expand sales further) so i don't mind one bit. I think it is a pretty fun and funny mental excercise for anyone so inclined.
    http://www.rhizomes.nl/twenty.html
    My Tweaked and modded Raleigh Twenty. Lots of pictures and lots of general info on for example a different & Cheap Bottom Bracket solution as well as fork solution.

  21. #21
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    19,678
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Madnomad sounds like a cool and crazy zen rider and I agree there's an irrational side to living carfree in America. But I think quint's OP was tongue-in-cheek so he's probably a wildman too. Besides, the unabomber was a mathematician, so what does that tell you?


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  22. #22
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Still in Santa Barbara
    My Bikes
    Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
    Posts
    4,920
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm not very good at math. I'd see it more like this:
    if(
    enjoying_the_scenery > watching_tail_lights_on_the_freeway &&
    cool_morning_air > tail_pipe_emissions &&
    exercise > sloth &&
    sloth + food == fatter &&
    fatter == depressing &&
    biking == fun &&
    driving == frustrating &&
    stress + biking == stress/2 &&
    stress + driving == stress*2 &&
    health > sickness &&
    environmental_health > environmental_degredataion &&
    savings_account > 0 && gasoline_bill <= 0)
    {
    ride_bike();
    **
    else
    {
    drive_car();
    **
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    My Bikes
    2006 Specialized S-Works Tricross
    Posts
    462
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes
    I'm not very good at math. I'd see it more like this:
    if(
    enjoying_the_scenery > watching_tail_lights_on_the_freeway &&
    cool_morning_air > tail_pipe_emissions &&
    exercise > sloth &&
    sloth + food == fatter &&
    fatter == depressing &&
    biking == fun &&
    driving == frustrating &&
    stress + biking == stress/2 &&
    stress + driving == stress*2 &&
    health > sickness &&
    environmental_health > environmental_degredataion &&
    savings_account > 0 && gasoline_bill <= 0)
    {
    ride_bike();
    **
    else
    {
    drive_car();
    **
    Yah - but is it J2SE 5.0 compliant ?

  24. #24
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    18,963
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by v1nce
    I am with madnomad!!
    ...Nomads eloquently written opinion. His opinion has merit i think. Disagree vehemently if you like but i don't know about namecalling and such.
    For more "eloquently written" opinions that may be to your liking read:

    http://sun.soci.niu.edu/~critcrim/uni/uni.txt
    Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 01-29-06 at 05:08 PM.

  25. #25
    Dominatrikes sbhikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Still in Santa Barbara
    My Bikes
    Catrike Pocket, Lightning Thunderbold recumbent, Trek 3000 MTB.
    Posts
    4,920
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Train
    Yah - but is it J2SE 5.0 compliant ?
    Nah. It's just JavaScript.
    ~Diane
    Recumbents: Lightning Thunderbolt, '06 Catrike Pocket. Upright: Trek Mountain Bike.
    8.5 mile commute. I like bike lanes.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •