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Car-free and.....

Old 02-22-10, 10:25 PM
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Car-free and.....

... oil-free, and absolutely delicious!

Some of today's harvest from my 1/8 acre suburban organic microfarm, enjoy



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Old 02-22-10, 10:38 PM
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Man that looks good! I was looking for an eggplant the other day and couldn't find one in the entire market. Guess you have to be in the southern hemisphere.

I'm glad you Aussies continue to "share" your crops with us. I still haven't grown anything but another 6 inches of snow in the last 24 hours.
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Old 02-22-10, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody
Man that looks good! I was looking for an eggplant the other day and couldn't find one in the entire market. Guess you have to be in the southern hemisphere.

I'm glad you Aussies continue to "share" your crops with us. I still haven't grown anything but another 6 inches of snow in the last 24 hours.
I've been keeping tabs on the amazing snowfalls you guys have had up north this winter. I just don't know how anyone can live in that sort of climate, I couldn't do it... you must be so looking forward to spring!
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Old 02-22-10, 10:56 PM
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Picture perfect, Cyc, you really have the green thumb!

And reporting from our little urban homestead in Texas...

Tonight we had asparagus and cole slaw from the garden along with a storebought roast chicken. The chicken carcass is now roasting in the oven and will become potato and leek soup tomorrow (which is expected to be a snow day, perfect for soup). Regrettably, the potatoes and leeks will not be from our garden. Maybe next year, though.

We've been starting seedlings in the garage for the last three weeks using a grow light. We learned to fold newspapers into seedling pots. Newspaper pots have some advantages. After being filled with potting mixture, the pots can be placed in trays and watered perfectly by pouring water into the tray. The water migrates upward through the paper toward the seeds. After the seedlings have grown, the damp newspaper pots can be torn slightly and simply buried in the garden soil, so there's no transplant shock. You can even do turnips that way, turnips normally being subject to severe transplant shock.

Already in the ground for the spring: two kinds of turnips, snow peas, spinach, beets, carrots, parsnips. Tonight they're covered against the expected freezing weather for the next two days.
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Old 02-23-10, 06:22 PM
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I have a question for the OP. What do you use for fertilizer?

I have been depending on compost for the last 6-7 years and it seems to me I may soon need something of a boost. I have looked into organic compost available in local stores, but suddenly realized it is made from "sludge".... quite possibly from municipal sewerage. I would think this would be full of heavy metals and everything else we don't want, so flush down the drain.
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Old 02-23-10, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by gerv
I have a question for the OP. What do you use for fertilizer?
To put it delicately....he uses something he finds in abundance on internet forums!
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Old 02-24-10, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by gerv
I have a question for the OP. What do you use for fertilizer?

I have been depending on compost for the last 6-7 years and it seems to me I may soon need something of a boost. I have looked into organic compost available in local stores, but suddenly realized it is made from "sludge".... quite possibly from municipal sewerage. I would think this would be full of heavy metals and everything else we don't want, so flush down the drain.
I compost all my garden greens every year. I have a few chickens whose refuse (poo and bedding), along with kitchen scraps that contain meat, which can'tgo into the compost or chicken feed, I process with black soldier fly larvae. I also have a worm farm to handle some of the kitchen scraps. The output from the worms, the black soldier flies, and the compost pile all go to feeding the veggies at regular intervals during the growing season.

At the start of winter, whichever bed in the rotation is going to be rested gets a top dress with locally sourced cow manure. I then sprinkle it liberally with lucerne and mustard grass seeds, throw in a couple of handfulls of composting worms, top it with some mulch, water it once, and leave it alone until the following spring. In spring I slash down the lucerne and mustard grass and turn it, along with the mulch, into the top 12 inches. The result is a very fertile bed ready to go back into production.

The only commercially available fertilizer I've used in the past is blood'n'bone, but it's been years since I've used anything other than fresh cow manure.

I've started moving away from growing in dirt over the past couple of years and getting more into aquaponics. I think that in a few years time all I'll be growing in the ground will be fruit trees.

Last edited by Cyclaholic; 02-24-10 at 05:32 AM.
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Old 02-24-10, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclaholic

I've started moving away from growing in dirt over the past couple of years and getting more into aquaponics. I think that in a few years time all I'll be growing in the ground will be fruit trees.
But the aquaponics would require some chemical fertilizer, no? Unless you have sufficient fish to provide nutrients?

This sounds like a real system you are developing and just how you feed the soil (or, in your case, the water) is such a major component of the operation. One thing I am learning is that I need a little more than just vegetable table scraps and leaves.

Another benefit you have is that you can keep the worms out year-round. Here it's cold enough to kill the worm in winter unless you have a real good bin setup (ie, in ground). Most worm composters around here seem to be them in the basement.
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Old 02-24-10, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gerv
But the aquaponics would require some chemical fertilizer, no? Unless you have sufficient fish to provide nutrients?
No macro nutrients need to be added provided you balance the fish and plant, which is what you should endeavour to do anyway. What you may have to do is occasionally add a little Seasol (seaweed based fertilizer) for a top up of micro nutrients, but we're talking tiny amounts, and only if plants show signs of deficiency.

This sounds like a real system you are developing and just how you feed the soil (or, in your case, the water) is such a major component of the operation. One thing I am learning is that I need a little more than just vegetable table scraps and leaves.
Yeah, you need more than table scraps to prep the soil. Well composted animal manure is essential, but so is the health of the microbial life in the soil. One of the big advantages of aquaponics is that you eliminate all that prep work, you don't lose productive area by having to rest beds, and you don't have to feed or water the plants ever, and you've eliminated all soil borne pathogens and diseases. Everything they need to thrive is being constantly pumped through their root system.... not to mention the fact that you harvest not just veggies but fish as well!

Another benefit you have is that you can keep the worms out year-round. Here it's cold enough to kill the worm in winter unless you have a real good bin setup (ie, in ground). Most worm composters around here seem to be them in the basement.
Yeah, absolutely! living in a temperate climate means the opportunity to be able to grow something year round, the worms live outside, etc. I'm certain that if I lived somewhere where it snowed in winter I'd either build a greenhouse or just move closer to the equator.

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Old 02-24-10, 10:30 PM
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Right now we're far from the ideal of a zero-input urban garden. We've had to bring in probably two tons of manure compost and commercial soil amendments to get to a reasonable starting point in terms of tilth, pH, and fertility. That wasn't exactly a car free operation, at least the way we did it.

One thing I think I'm seeing is that it takes years for the soil to "digest" a lot of initial amendments. I don't know exactly what has to happen. I'm suspecting it has something to do with microorganisms, funguses and earthworms. What I can see with my own eyes is more earthworms every year and I guess that's good.

The other thing is that as long as you're taking stuff out of the soil, you have to constantly put more stuff back in to replace it. Especially fixed nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium (NPK). And that's exactly what NPK commercial fertilizer is all about. Just recycling the vegetable waste won't replenish the garden because so much NPK from the garden gets lost in the human waste stream. So the usual solutions I suppose are (1) grow lots of nitrogen fixing plants to plow back into the soil, (2) regularly add commercial NPK fertilizer, (3) regularly add manure and compost from outside.

I suppose the advantages of Cyclaholic's chicken/worm/fish setup is that chickens and worms can recycle the bugs (which would be a plentiful resource in our garden). Plus the worms can recycle NPK from non compostable waste. I'm not sure exactly what the fish do. Nothing I see there actually fixes new nitrogen or generates new phosphorous and potassium. However the system as a whole is probably more efficient for recycling the externally obtained nutrients which are in the form of chicken feed and non-compostable human food scraps.

So I guess my question for the OP is, where does the microfarm get its fixed nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium inputs?

Thanks for posting on the subject. I'm very much still in the learning mode.

Edited to add: Oh, I see the OP addressed some of these questions while I was typing this post.
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Old 02-25-10, 05:33 PM
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Do the veggies taste just as good when they're grown in water (hydroponics)? It seems like they'd be bland or something.
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Old 02-25-10, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Roody
Do the veggies taste just as good when they're grown in water (hydroponics)? It seems like they'd be bland or something.
I can understand that assumption but aquaponically grown vegetables (i.e. grown symbiotically with fish) taste absolutely amazing. I wish you could taste some of my produce over the Internet.

Edit: ...I just harvested another 10lb of tomatoes, they're going into a sauce that will be preserved for winter. Time to fire up the pressure cooker!
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Old 02-25-10, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
Edit: ...I just harvested another 10lb of tomatoes, they're going into a sauce that will be preserved for winter. Time to fire up the pressure cooker!
Cyclaholic... thanks for this. You've inspired to get thinking about Spring, even though there's about 2 feet of snow on the ground.
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Old 02-25-10, 10:43 PM
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We're still getting cool weather stuff from the garden. This evening we had broccoli and butternut squash along with storebought fish and rice. The butternut squash has been stored in the garage since late November. It's still looking very good, I'm impressed with its storeability. Tonight we're cooking up a batch of bok choy soup. Looks like we'll be having lots of cabbage family stuff for a while.
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Old 02-26-10, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gerv
Cyclaholic... thanks for this. You've inspired to get thinking about Spring, even though there's about 2 feet of snow on the ground.
That's awesome! I have much respect for you guys that can get produce from a garden that receives snow in winter.
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Old 02-26-10, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Platy
We're still getting cool weather stuff from the garden. This evening we had broccoli and butternut squash along with storebought fish and rice. The butternut squash has been stored in the garage since late November. It's still looking very good, I'm impressed with its storeability. Tonight we're cooking up a batch of bok choy soup. Looks like we'll be having lots of cabbage family stuff for a while.
Butternut (and other winter squashes) are terrific! Since i try to eat locally grown produce, winter in Michigan means a lot of squash, root vegetables, cabbage and apples.

Tip: when you cook the squash, toast the seeds in the oven with a little oil and salt. They sure are tasty!
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Old 02-26-10, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyclaholic
That's awesome! I have much respect for you guys that can get produce from a garden that receives snow in winter.
Actually, a hard winter that be very beneficial for a garden. It kills lots insects and fungi that might gang up on your crop. As well, the heavy snow can do a nice job of hydrating the soil... if it doesn't warm up too quickly.

On the down side, you won't be harvesting any lettuce in February.
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Old 02-27-10, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gerv
Actually, a hard winter that be very beneficial for a garden. It kills lots insects and fungi that might gang up on your crop. As well, the heavy snow can do a nice job of hydrating the soil... if it doesn't warm up too quickly.

On the down side, you won't be harvesting any lettuce in February.
Good points, I've had all sorts of fungus problems this summer, barely managed to stay on top of it.
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