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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 12-27-06, 08:12 AM   #1
PSYCLONE
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Are you a car free Republican/Conservative?

Stereotypically, I think the car free folks are probably all predominately left of center. I'm more right of center, but living car free (I currently do not) makes alot of sense to me. That being said, is there a political leaning from most on this forum?
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Old 12-27-06, 08:43 AM   #2
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If I feel like prodding some of the people I know who would call themselves Republican/Conservative, for the sake of a little discussion, I say that I am extremely conservative, shockingly conservative.

To me, "conservative" means sticking with time-honored principles, approaching change cautiously, not jumping into radically different ways of doing things.

If someone were to suggest, hey, let's find all of our finite supply of petroleum, burn it all up as fast as possible so that there is none left for the future, and the atmosphere is polluted on top of that, and then see what happens, I would label that person as a flaming radical. That is something that has never been tried before, could have terrible consequences, and would be irreversible. That's the very definition of radical, right out of the dictionary--"favoring extreme changes."

It seems to be a human trait to consider what one personally knows as normal, the way things should be, and the way things always will be. But this heavy car dependence has been with us for only about one human lifetime. What is really "conservative"? What is really "radical"?
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Old 12-27-06, 09:01 AM   #3
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I'm not car free. Not really even car lite, since I own two cars. My wife drives one daily, and I drive one about one time each week.
Having said that, I'm a libertarian. I hate governmental interference in our lives. I think people need to learn how to do more for themselves and ask less of others. I consider myself to be financially conservative and socially liberal.
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Old 12-27-06, 09:26 AM   #4
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depends on what definition of conservative you use, the current extreme neo liberal incarnation of conservative as practiced by the admin in power, or the old classic definition
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Old 12-27-06, 09:31 AM   #5
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depends on what definition of conservative you use, the current extreme neo liberal incarnation of conservative as practiced by the admin in power, or the old classic definition
Maybe it depends on if the car-free cyclist watches TV or not.
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Old 12-27-06, 09:42 AM   #6
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could a conservative/republican be a bike commuter/rider and be perfectly happy with the road system? classically, conservatives do not like government, or taxes, invading on their dance space.
government and taxing makes it possible to fund public projects like road repairs and bicycle lanes, plus the general maintanence that it takes to keep roads in order.
coming from northern mass before i moved here, once you cross the border into new hampshire, the roads are a mess - it's mostly a conservative state, and tax free.
but the public suffers for it.
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Old 12-27-06, 12:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swwhite
If someone were to suggest, hey, let's find all of our finite supply of petroleum, burn it all up as fast as possible so that there is none left for the future, and the atmosphere is polluted on top of that, and then see what happens, I would label that person as a flaming radical. That is something that has never been tried before, could have terrible consequences, and would be irreversible. That's the very definition of radical, right out of the dictionary--"favoring extreme changes."
+1. Exactly. How would anyone consider that attitude "conservative"? I would think a true conservative would tend more towards conservation. Yes?
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Old 12-27-06, 12:17 PM   #8
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Would you agree that hunters, are the best conservationists?
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Old 12-27-06, 12:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by PSYCLONE
Would you agree that hunters, are the best conservationists?
Absolutely not. Most hunters are good advocates of "wildlife management," and that can include a lot of conservation measures. But many hunters have little interest in preserving wilderness as wilderness. They don't like predators, for example, because they compete for prey. They don't like endangered species, because sometimes prime hunting areas are off limits to hunting in order to protect endangered species. And they sure as hell don't like hikers, mountain bikers, bird watchers, snowmobilers and other users of wild lands.
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Old 12-27-06, 02:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by gerv
+1. Exactly. How would anyone consider that attitude "conservative"? I would think a true conservative would tend more towards conservation. Yes?

nope... the status-quo is heavy dependence on cars, and the support of "big business", which is heavily oil-dependent. A political conservative is gonig to maintain the status, protect the businesses, and thus our rediculous lifestyles.

Go out and poll the drivers of the largest SUV's on the road and see what their affiliation is...


If, however, your point is that the terms liberal and conservative are misused, then I agree with you.
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Old 12-27-06, 02:56 PM   #11
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Is it a coincidence that most of the employees of defense (read: weapon), oil industries are Republicans?
Is it a coincidence that the governments that seek ways to drill in Alaska and other delicate faunas are Republicans?
Is it a coincidence that a Republican government enabled the business owners to write-off Hummers and other heavy-weight SUVs?
I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule. But I personally have never met a environmentalist Republican.
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Old 12-27-06, 03:02 PM   #12
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The Amish are very conservative
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Old 12-27-06, 03:45 PM   #13
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I'm independent, with republican leanings. I own a big ol' SUV, ranks right up there with the best of the gas guzzlers. Of course, it hasn't moved under it's own power in about 8 months.

It's sitting there waiting for me to fix it, so I can take it up into the mountains next spring/summer.
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Old 12-27-06, 03:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by PSYCLONE
Would you agree that hunters, are the best conservationists?
No. Too many hunters are out for the "thrill of the kill" and filling the freezer to use a blanket statement like that. A person might do the right thing, but if they do it for the wrong reason you can't call them a conservationist.

Here in Michigan I know way too many people hunt to drink beer and get away from the wife.

How does one seperate being religiously conservative, with economically conservative, with socially conservation, environmental conservation and so on?
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Old 12-27-06, 04:55 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swwhite
If I feel like prodding some of the people I know who would call themselves Republican/Conservative, for the sake of a little discussion, I say that I am extremely conservative, shockingly conservative.

To me, "conservative" means sticking with time-honored principles, approaching change cautiously, not jumping into radically different ways of doing things.

If someone were to suggest, hey, let's find all of our finite supply of petroleum, burn it all up as fast as possible so that there is none left for the future, and the atmosphere is polluted on top of that, and then see what happens, I would label that person as a flaming radical. That is something that has never been tried before, could have terrible consequences, and would be irreversible. That's the very definition of radical, right out of the dictionary--"favoring extreme changes."

It seems to be a human trait to consider what one personally knows as normal, the way things should be, and the way things always will be. But this heavy car dependence has been with us for only about one human lifetime. What is really "conservative"? What is really "radical"?
Now here's a "Conservative" viewpoint I can live with! Colorado typically votes Republican, but in the last election, the entire state actually approved a tax increase Initiative to expand the Light Rail around Denver and Boulder. This tells me that both Conservatives and Liberals want a solution to these problems, but that Political stubbornness usually stands in the way.
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Old 12-27-06, 06:57 PM   #16
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not! to both of them.
I do vote for issues that effect me locally, and state wide..but not any person..
Here in Ohio..the poplus voted for a change in the state house..
Gov taft beleive it or not did put alot into building bike trails..Ohio is like the 4 or 5 th state with the most trails? I do hope the clean air act, especially the funding that alows bike paths to be built contiune.
peace though only comes from above..one day! Somebodys comin..
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Old 12-27-06, 07:07 PM   #17
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What does it mean to be a conservative? A lot of conservatives were anti-interventionist and fiscally conservative, yet seem to support just the opposite with the current regime. To me conservative means they like a mean father figure government and liberal means they like a soft mommy government. But they are both authoritarian and perfectly happy to use force to maintain the power structure. A thinking person's evolution is thus - conservative to libertarian to anarchist (or liberal to socialist to anarchist). I think it is morally reprehensible to support the idea of government whether liberal or conservative since all government is based on violent means.
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Old 12-27-06, 07:11 PM   #18
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The misseries of traffic gridlock is non partisan in nature; as is the price of gasoline. I hope at least, for all our well being.
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Old 12-27-06, 07:13 PM   #19
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Is there such a thing as a conservative, left-leaning, (small "L") libertarian or am I one of those flip-flopping moderates that the Neo-Cons warn us about?
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Old 12-27-06, 09:32 PM   #20
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The Amish are very conservative
That actually brings up an interesting point. Even though Utah is one of the most socially conservatives states, they are also one of the most environmentally responsible. Some cities in Utah (can't remember which ones) have free (propane powered) bus service with the intent of encouraging people to drive less. There's also a national park in Utah (Zion I think) which prohibits private vehicles during the busy tourist season (again, only propane powered busses are permitted.

That said, I would guess bicyclists in general would tend to be more left-wing. Businesspersons tend to be economically conservative Republicans, but can often be moderate to liberal on social issues. However, since most people are motiviated by profit to enter the business world, I would think they'd be more likely to drive expensive, inefficient luxury cars/SUVs, rather than bike.

As for myself, I don't think I would ever consider myself conservative because to me the term implies being closed-minded. The basic definition of conservative is 'tending to favor conventional or traditional values, ideas, institutions, etc, while being averse to new and/or unorthodox ideas, practices,etc.' I think of myself as a minimalist/pragmatist in regards to most aspects of life, including politics. In my life and society in general, certain thing just need to get done in order for things to work effectively. I want these things done in the most efficient (and least wasteful) way possible: if it that means doing them in a conventional way, that's fine; if it means doing it in an unconventional way, that's also fine. I bike because it's much more cost effective, less wasteful (in terms of resources and pollution), and often faster than driving (during certain times of the day).
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Old 12-27-06, 11:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by r8ingbull
Here in Michigan I know way too many people hunt to drink beer and get away from the wife.
Shhh! You're not supposed to tell those guys that they're really camping.
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Old 12-28-06, 02:29 AM   #22
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I'm philosophically libertarian and registered independent, but often vote GOP. At this point, esp. on the federal level, I don't see much difference between the parties. I will usually go with the one least likely to try to take away my firearms.

I dislike the left because I find them even more arrogant and invasive than the right. It comes across very clearly living up here in Alaska. I've heard Democrats in the Senate lecture us about why we don't need a gravel road from one village to another or why a bridge to my home is a "bridge to nowhere." They're a bunch of a-holes. I favor drilling in ANWR because I've actually been there and I know how they drill these days. And I think if those clowns from the south really wanted to make a change in the environment they'd forbid new highway and bridge construction in the midwest and east and reintroduce brown bears in California and the mountain states. I fly over the cities down there and see nothing but stinking, paved-over hell holes and THESE are the people who try to lecture ME! They use Alaska as the scapegoat, and figure if they vote to keep us from building a damn gravel road from one village to the next, they've done their good deed for the year. So they drive home in their guzzler and crank up the AC to keep the 120 degree sun at bay.
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Old 12-28-06, 07:48 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Cosmoline
I'm philosophically libertarian and registered independent, but often vote GOP. At this point, esp. on the federal level, I don't see much difference between the parties. I will usually go with the one least likely to try to take away my firearms.

I dislike the left because I find them even more arrogant and invasive than the right. It comes across very clearly living up here in Alaska. I've heard Democrats in the Senate lecture us about why we don't need a gravel road from one village to another or why a bridge to my home is a "bridge to nowhere." They're a bunch of a-holes. I favor drilling in ANWR because I've actually been there and I know how they drill these days. And I think if those clowns from the south really wanted to make a change in the environment they'd forbid new highway and bridge construction in the midwest and east and reintroduce brown bears in California and the mountain states. I fly over the cities down there and see nothing but stinking, paved-over hell holes and THESE are the people who try to lecture ME! They use Alaska as the scapegoat, and figure if they vote to keep us from building a damn gravel road from one village to the next, they've done their good deed for the year. So they drive home in their guzzler and crank up the AC to keep the 120 degree sun at bay.
this is the kind of backwards twisted argument that keeps me from fully agreeing with the libertarians. It's all about personal rights but not personal responsibility. In the same paragraph you mention how those in the "south" should make changes to how they live before they try to change you. How do you think the indians in the ANWR feel about you (from the "south") advocating drilling on the lands they survive off of?

In case you haven't noticed you live in the United States of America. When the United States buys land and owns development rights and provides road construction money, the United States has the rights to decide how they are used. Just because you happen to live closer than me, doesn't give you more rights. I've never heard any comments about how the state of Alaska should spend it's money, only how the federal government should.
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Old 12-28-06, 07:48 AM   #24
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Just as Al-Qaeda have hijacked Islam, the Neo-cons have hijacked the conservative movement and the Republican Party.
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Old 12-28-06, 11:46 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Thor29
A thinking person's evolution is thus - conservative to libertarian to anarchist (or liberal to socialist to anarchist). I think it is morally reprehensible to support the idea of government whether liberal or conservative since all government is based on violent means.
Interesting . . .and to that I would like to paraphrase Noam Chomsky--the burden of proof that the people even need a government is upon the government.

But back to the OP's topic. I consider myself a liberal; although, I am for minimum gov't interference (I would probably turn to walking if I had to register my bike) and only car-lite at the present moment.
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