What do you guys think of this look at increasing energy needs?
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What do you guys think of this look at increasing energy needs?
I think it's a good, fair, well researched look at the problem.
https://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/11/27/0432/3533
https://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/11/27/0432/3533
#3
In the right lane
Originally Posted by donrhummy
I think it's a good, fair, well researched look at the problem.
https://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/11/27/0432/3533
https://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/11/27/0432/3533
But just this one general comment: I see a lot interest in the US with Green Tech. Silicon Valley is raising lot of venture dollars to implement some of these types of ideas. Undoubtedly some of them are good; others are pipe dreams.
But what's happening here is that the US is looking for a technology fix to solve climate change (and peak oil and the global oil-political fiasco). I think the real answer is that we already have the technology to deal with global warming. We have bicycles and feet for transportation. We have simple simple techniques that would reduce CO2 emissions in the household. Our grandfathers lived in a society that undoubtedly used a lot less energy... so I'm arguing that...ok... let's look at technology, but don't forget that we also need to change radically as a society.
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Originally Posted by gerv
I guess I am a little overwhelmed by the article. It's like a small book and very technical.
But just this one general comment: I see a lot interest in the US with Green Tech. Silicon Valley is raising lot of venture dollars to implement some of these types of ideas. Undoubtedly some of them are good; others are pipe dreams.
But what's happening here is that the US is looking for a technology fix to solve climate change (and peak oil and the global oil-political fiasco). I think the real answer is that we already have the technology to deal with global warming. We have bicycles and feet for transportation. We have simple simple techniques that would reduce CO2 emissions in the household. Our grandfathers lived in a society that undoubtedly used a lot less energy... so I'm arguing that...ok... let's look at technology, but don't forget that we also need to change radically as a society.
But just this one general comment: I see a lot interest in the US with Green Tech. Silicon Valley is raising lot of venture dollars to implement some of these types of ideas. Undoubtedly some of them are good; others are pipe dreams.
But what's happening here is that the US is looking for a technology fix to solve climate change (and peak oil and the global oil-political fiasco). I think the real answer is that we already have the technology to deal with global warming. We have bicycles and feet for transportation. We have simple simple techniques that would reduce CO2 emissions in the household. Our grandfathers lived in a society that undoubtedly used a lot less energy... so I'm arguing that...ok... let's look at technology, but don't forget that we also need to change radically as a society.
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Uh, sure, but...which is an easier fix that has the bigger impact on the environment: changing electric companies to use wind/solar/nuclear power instead of coal, changing cars to use electric power instead of gas or to get the majority of the 280 million people in the United States to change the way they live and move around (and to make them more physically active)? Seriously.
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I'm at this site all the time. I've got my eyes on a potential energy crisis all the time. Similar sites are peakoil.com and energybulletin.net.
I've thought about it a lot and I've decided that as much as bicycles can energy in the US, people are not going to bike more unless they're forced to-- a la the '70s during the embargo.
If you read up on peak oil, you'll see that once peak sets in, the crisis will seem to have no end. I think the crisis will be defined by people moving out of the exburbs and low density suburbs and into more densely populated areas or areas with good transportation infrastructure (rail, water). If this is the case, I think you'll see people forced onto bikes-- not necessarily because of the lack of fuel but because there's no room for cars.
The real question in my mind is what's the optimum population density? A great majority of the people in the US will not tolerate being packed in like people are in Tokyo Japan (there's even no room for bikes-- where people usually walk and take the train). It won't be too long before driving everywhere (like you have to in most suburbs) becomes too expensive. I think the new-urbanist planners have the right idea. Too bad you can't reformat cities as easily as you can a hard drive.
I've thought about it a lot and I've decided that as much as bicycles can energy in the US, people are not going to bike more unless they're forced to-- a la the '70s during the embargo.
If you read up on peak oil, you'll see that once peak sets in, the crisis will seem to have no end. I think the crisis will be defined by people moving out of the exburbs and low density suburbs and into more densely populated areas or areas with good transportation infrastructure (rail, water). If this is the case, I think you'll see people forced onto bikes-- not necessarily because of the lack of fuel but because there's no room for cars.
The real question in my mind is what's the optimum population density? A great majority of the people in the US will not tolerate being packed in like people are in Tokyo Japan (there's even no room for bikes-- where people usually walk and take the train). It won't be too long before driving everywhere (like you have to in most suburbs) becomes too expensive. I think the new-urbanist planners have the right idea. Too bad you can't reformat cities as easily as you can a hard drive.
#7
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Originally Posted by donrhummy
Uh, sure, but...which is an easier fix that has the bigger impact on the environment: changing electric companies to use wind/solar/nuclear power instead of coal, changing cars to use electric power instead of gas or to get the majority of the 280 million people in the United States to change the way they live and move around (and to make them more physically active)? Seriously.
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Originally Posted by gerv
I think your view of society is too pessimistic. After all, most folks don't throw their trash in the street and a good majority are willing to recycle paper, plastics and so on. This is a behavior that these people learned and, in the same way, the folks who now dump tons of CO2 emissions into the atmosphere may come to the realization that their current behavior is unhealthy or unhygenic. But if we continue to say it will never happen, then... guess what... you're right...
The majority of people will only make the change if they're forced to.
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Originally Posted by donrhummy
The majority of people will only make the change if they're forced to.
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Pedaled too far.
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Originally Posted by jondoh
I've thought about it a lot and I've decided that as much as bicycles can energy in the US, people are not going to bike more unless they're forced to-- a la the '70s during the embargo.
I was taking a community college illustration class at the peak of the crisis. I pedaled 12 miles in to class because not only was I out of district, but I was in the second district away. Everyone else in class drove like 4 miles max and I was the only one with a perfect attendance record. Giving up their car is more than most Americans can deal with it. People are no more likely to give up their car than their TV. How likely is that? Ron Cobb expressed it so well.
#11
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Originally Posted by Artkansas
You are being over optimistic then. I was pedaling then. Not one person I knew of started bicycling instead of driving back then, even with having to deal with gas lines etc. You'll pry steering wheels out of peoples cold dead hands before you get them to bicycle.
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Originally Posted by gerv
ArtKansas, I still remember that the crisis did cause many people to drive much smaller cars... at least until the invention of the SUV. Of course, even if they were driving Toyota Priuses, that probably would not buy the planet that much extra time. Perhaps we could invent a "pedal" car with a derailleur drive?
Pedal Cars like these?
https://www.velomobileusa.com/
https://home.mindspring.com/~kb7mxu/trikes5.htm
#16
In the right lane
Originally Posted by Artkansas
It's true, people were trading in their LTD's for a Pinto back then.
Pedal Cars like these?
https://www.velomobileusa.com/
https://home.mindspring.com/~kb7mxu/trikes5.htm
Pedal Cars like these?
https://www.velomobileusa.com/
https://home.mindspring.com/~kb7mxu/trikes5.htm
#17
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Originally Posted by Artkansas
It's true, people were trading in their LTD's for a Pinto back then.
That pedal car looks very claustraphobic to me, and a minor speed bump for some "Truckzilla" type. As for now, give me the wind in my face any day.
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If they got the ventilation right, the canopy shouldn't fog up.
The cockpit of the velomobile is very similar to a glider. With an air intake up front and vents in the back to establish airflow, you can be remarkably comfortable in a wide varienty of temperatures, and canopy fogging isn't an issue.
Just don't close the vent when it's cold, or you'll ice over pretty fast.
The cockpit of the velomobile is very similar to a glider. With an air intake up front and vents in the back to establish airflow, you can be remarkably comfortable in a wide varienty of temperatures, and canopy fogging isn't an issue.
Just don't close the vent when it's cold, or you'll ice over pretty fast.
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And only $13,950 Canadian for the base model!
A great majority of the people in the US will not tolerate being packed in like people are in Tokyo Japan (there's even no room for bikes-- where people usually walk and take the train).