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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 02-28-07, 08:33 PM   #1
manual_overide
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Gub'mint took my baby!

if i promise to drink only beer and hard liquor, i wonder if i can qualify for the alcohol used as fuel tax credit next year
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Old 02-28-07, 11:54 PM   #2
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if i promise to drink only beer and hard liquor, i wonder if i can qualify for the alcohol used as fuel tax credit next year
I've already made the switch from E5 to E85 baby - parteeee onnn dudesh!
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Old 03-01-07, 07:46 AM   #3
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beer prices going up... farmers planting corn for ethanol instead of barley
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Old 03-01-07, 06:11 PM   #4
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All those corn squeezin's going into the tank instead of into mason jars.
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Old 03-02-07, 09:41 AM   #5
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you can get federal subsidies and money to make ethanol in 50 gallon drums in your backyard or whatever. you do have to promise not to drink it or sell it as moonshine and probably add a denaturant to it.

the process is exactly like making moonshine in a backyard still.
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Old 03-02-07, 09:51 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by golden graham
you can get federal subsidies and money to make ethanol in 50 gallon drums in your backyard or whatever. you do have to promise not to drink it or sell it as moonshine and probably add a denaturant to it.
I suppose you can run this money making backyard operation car-free too!
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Old 03-02-07, 12:43 PM   #7
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I suppose you can run this money making backyard operation car-free too!
Well if you're talking about "running" corn liquor, you'll probably want a car, and the faster the better. But OTOH maybe you could fly under the revenooer's radar on a bike?

Actually, your smug little post raises an important issue about ethanol. No matter the scale, there's lots of energy costs involved in ethanol production and distribution. The way the process is set up now, those energy costs pretty much wipe out the savings in CO2 emissions from using ethanol in automobiles. But I don't suppose the legislators from your state (or mine) are too worried about that.
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Old 03-02-07, 01:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Roody
Well if you're talking about "running" corn liquor, you'll probably want a car, and the faster the better. But OTOH maybe you could fly under the revenooer's radar on a bike?

Actually, your smug little post...
No my obtuse friend you are not as clever as you think. I'd like to know how the car free back yard distiller can economically obtain and handle sufficient raw product (grain) and produce enough finished product (ethanol) to fill one 55 gallon drum, let alone get it to market, make a dime, or be "federally subsidized." I don't see how the simple life fellow could save a dime if he used every drop himself, given that anyone can buy gasoline or 85% ethanol for less than $2.50 a gallon. He could probably do far better raising illegal crops.
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Old 03-02-07, 06:28 PM   #9
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I suppose you can run this money making backyard operation car-free too!
Best quote of the day ILTB.
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Old 03-02-07, 06:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Roody
. . .Actually, your smug little post raises an important issue about ethanol. No matter the scale, there's lots of energy costs involved in ethanol production and distribution. The way the process is set up now, those energy costs pretty much wipe out the savings in CO2 emissions from using ethanol in automobiles. But I don't suppose the legislators from your state (or mine) are too worried about that.
No the legislators are not; just follow the money. Money, money, money. These days I figure the only way to make progress toward our goals of clean, sustainable living is to find a way the bankers can make a profit in the process.
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Old 03-03-07, 11:07 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Roody
Actually, your smug little post raises an important issue about ethanol. No matter the scale, there's lots of energy costs involved in ethanol production and distribution. The way the process is set up now, those energy costs pretty much wipe out the savings in CO2 emissions from using ethanol in automobiles. But I don't suppose the legislators from your state (or mine) are too worried about that.
I think the real "sell" for most politicians is convincing folks that the US is somehow headed towards energy independence. The real goal is to free us from fiascos like what's happening in the Middle East. Problem is that at the rate we gobble up the resouce, you'd need to turn the entire US -- and possibly the Canadian Arctic-- into a corn field.

As for CO2 emissions, do you really think that's on the radar screen for most of our politicians?
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Old 03-03-07, 11:56 PM   #12
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Ethanol seems to have grown new legs with the hopes of processing switch grass into fuel.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...h_grass_fu.php

Personally, I was never sold on the Ethanol idea from the start; does this new twist have any merit?
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Old 03-04-07, 01:00 AM   #13
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Generally, anything is better than getting Ethanol from corn. It's a very input intensive because it's a food crop, not to mention a sugar based biofuel, which usually don't come close to the energy density of oil base biofuels. I'm surprised we didn't use tulips!

Sugarcane makes a good starting point in the right climate because it grows well, as will switchgrass or corn stover because it would ordinarily be a waste byproduct. Depending on inputs, ethanol tends to hover around a 1:1 energy in:energy out ratio, so unless we build engines to take advantage of it's high octane, it's just turning some natural gas, coal, oil, and etc... into an oil replacement is blah from an energy standpoint, but good from an economic standpoint if that coal/NG/etc... is cheaper than the equivalent amount of oil. Now, ethanol from other sources has way better energy ratios, at least according to Iowa State.
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...the energy gain from converting switchgrass to ethanol is 343%!
It's kinda like WVO. Something that's being treated as a waste product right now, but can be used as a fuel with some processing. Eventually, restaurants won't buy cooking oil, they'll lease it, and the business leasing it will collect the "waste" oil for use as a fuel. These things take time, but will come around.
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Old 03-04-07, 12:34 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
No my obtuse friend you are not as clever as you think. I'd like to know how the car free back yard distiller can economically obtain and handle sufficient raw product (grain) and produce enough finished product (ethanol) to fill one 55 gallon drum, let alone get it to market, make a dime, or be "federally subsidized." I don't see how the simple life fellow could save a dime if he used every drop himself, given that anyone can buy gasoline or 85% ethanol for less than $2.50 a gallon. He could probably do far better raising illegal crops.
Well you see, it's an analogy, not to be taken literally. Just like it's uneconomical for the simple guy to make it in his backyard, it's uneconomical on a much larger scale for the nation to commercially produce corn ethanol. And for many of the same reasons, too.

BTW, I was just reading in Harper's that marijuana is the leading cash crop in 12 states. And of course hemp is often mentioned as a source for biofuel, since it grows, well, like a weed.
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