Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-07-07, 08:48 AM   #1
ellenDSD
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 467
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Disturbing

I attended our bike club's monthly meeting last night and I heard something I found to be quite disturbing. A high school in a neighboring city removed their bike racks. They did it because they 1) did not want to promote/encourage biking to school because it's just too dangerous and 2) because they didn't want to be held liable should someone have an accident (since they were obviously encouraging biking by providing bike racks).

So what's next? A ban on riding your bike to the supermarket because they don't want to be held liable? Is anyone else bothered by this? Is it possible that our biking lifestyle is being threatened to the point that biking will be not feasible anymore?



(Yes, I am aware of my tendency towards jumping to the worst possible conclusion.)
ellenDSD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 08:51 AM   #2
chickPEA
Member
 
chickPEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: philly burbs
Bikes:
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Is the school held liable if one of the students who DRIVES to school had an accident? I doubt it... That logic is just amazing...
chickPEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 09:12 AM   #3
jdeane4
Avatar Bandit
 
jdeane4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Bikes:
Posts: 597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I was cited by the Local Mall Security for riding my bike on mall property. The funny thing is I was riding to work, which is in the mall. I appealed it to the head of their security department and now they will strictly allow me to ride to work only. This country is becoming so stupid. Its all BS.
jdeane4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 09:21 AM   #4
GGDub
Dog is my copilot.
 
GGDub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Bikes: Lemond Maillot Jaune, Specialized Stumpjumper, Kona Jake the Snake, Single-Speed Rigid Rocky Mtn Equipe, Soon-to-be fixed Bianchi Brava
Posts: 802
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
After one kid and one chaperone were swept away by a rogue wave in N. California 7 years ago, the amount of hoops my wife has to jump through just to take her dance class to a show in the evening is unbelievable. North American society has become one that makes decisions based on fear and liability and not on common sense. Just perusing the numerous helmet threads on this site is a good example. At some point in the last 20 years, the bicycle has become an extremely dangerous machine. I blame CNN and Mountain Dew commercials.

ps-sorry my reply is kinda all over the place
GGDub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 09:45 AM   #5
LandLuger
bicyclist
 
LandLuger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 383
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
GGDub is correct. We should hold our ire for the trial lawyers not the school officials.
LandLuger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 09:47 AM   #6
dynodonn 
Senior Member
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 7,288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
I ride by my highschool on a weekly basis, and they still have the same bike racks when I was going there. There's probably the same number of bikes using it as when I was a student there, but there are more cars parked at the school and and far more empty seats on the buses.
dynodonn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 09:49 AM   #7
austropithicus
Guest
 
Bikes:
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LandLuger
GGDub is correct. We should hold our ire for the trial lawyers not the school officials.
GGDub said that "North American society has become one that makes decisions based on fear and liability and not on common sense." He's right but you've got to realize that the lawyers aren't the ones MAKING the decisions based on fear and liability. The school officials are the scared decision makers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 10:35 AM   #8
Platy
Dare to be weird!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Austin TX
Bikes: Hybridized 1970s Coppi road bike; Townie city cruiser
Posts: 1,991
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Maybe there really is no safe way to walk or bike to some schoools.

There's really not much that can be done when anti-bike forces take over in a community. That's when you have to evaluate your choice of which community to live in.
Platy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 10:44 AM   #9
kjohnnytarr
Instigator at best
 
kjohnnytarr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Bikes: Motobecane Jury
Posts: 1,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Unacceptable. Pardon my crudeness, but the bigger perspective on the problem as I see it is this:

If we treat our kids like wusses and idiots, that's what they will grow up to become.

It's amazing how many parents, teachers, etc. treat kids as if they were incapable and stupid. I say, with conviction, that the best way to raise a child is to thrust responsibility upon them, and then hold them accountable for their actions.
kjohnnytarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 10:51 AM   #10
gwd
Biker
 
gwd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DC
Bikes: one Recumbent and one Utility Bike
Posts: 1,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellenDSD
A high school in a neighboring city removed their bike racks. They did it because they 1) did not want to promote/encourage biking to school because it's just too dangerous and 2) because they didn't want to be held liable should someone have an accident (since they were obviously encouraging biking by providing bike racks).
The city just replaced a middle/high school complex in my neighborhood last year. They installed bike racks in the new complex where the old one had none. The pk-8 charter school across the street installed bike racks when they had their makeover two years ago. The charter school needs a few more bike spaces. Some mornings between the kids who ride and the parents who pack the very young ones all the spaces get filled.
gwd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 10:59 AM   #11
ModoVincere
Riding Heaven's Highways on the grand tour
 
ModoVincere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,675
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjohnnytarr
Unacceptable. Pardon my crudeness, but the bigger perspective on the problem as I see it is this:

If we treat our kids like wusses and idiots, that's what they will grow up to become.
Too late, in many cases its already happened. Just my opinion.
__________________
1 bronze, 0 silver, 1 gold
ModoVincere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 11:44 AM   #12
jamesdenver
jim anchower
 
jamesdenver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This also has to do with the overprivatization of the country. (One of my interests). If a mall/lifestyle center or whatever encompasses such a large swath of land it's impractical to circumvent it (i.e. drains channels, private streets, non-ped friendly design), than that's something that should be addressed.

Keep riding your bike as you see fit. It's not the pentagon.
jamesdenver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 11:55 AM   #13
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeane4
I was cited by the Local Mall Security for riding my bike on mall property. The funny thing is I was riding to work, which is in the mall. I appealed it to the head of their security department and now they will strictly allow me to ride to work only. This country is becoming so stupid. Its all BS.
I'm glad that you fought this and especially glad that you won (sorta). Good going!

I wonder if anybody has ever tried to get help from local bicycle advocacy groups. There's strength in numbers.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 12:00 PM   #14
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesdenver
This also has to do with the overprivatization of the country. (One of my interests). If a mall/lifestyle center or whatever encompasses such a large swath of land it's impractical to circumvent it (i.e. drains channels, private streets, non-ped friendly design), than that's something that should be addressed.

Keep riding your bike as you see fit. It's not the pentagon
.
I agree. It's crazy that we've allowed our main commercial districts (that is, malls) to become privately owned. Then we taxpayers subsidize them with tax breaks, free or at least below-cost infrastructure, and exemptions from local and state laws, especially pollution laws.

And "lifestyle center"! What the hell is that? Who do they think they're fooling? Shopping is a lifestyle? Zheeesh....
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 12:30 PM   #15
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellenDSD
I attended our bike club's monthly meeting last night and I heard something I found to be quite disturbing...(Yes, I am aware of my tendency towards jumping to the worst possible conclusion.)
Did you ever find out if what you "heard" is correct about the reason for the removal of the school bike racks? Hint: what you "hear" isn't always true.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 12:36 PM   #16
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Did you ever find out if what you "heard" is correct about the reason for the removal of the school bike racks? Hint: what you "hear" isn't always true.
Wrong. What you hear on the Internet is always true.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 12:38 PM   #17
jamesdenver
jim anchower
 
jamesdenver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have no problem ignoring stupid rules and laws. I understand the reason for such rules is insurance and liability issues in case you're hurt cruising through a parking lot, but plenty of people are hurt walking in parking lots too.

I go by the rule "better to ask forgiveness than permission". Last year I cut through the lobby of a skyscraper downtown to get to the other street, rather than walking around. I generally walk fast and with a sense of purpose, so it's obvious I'm not loitering. I get yelled at by security that "I can't come in without blah blah", but I just wave and say "passing through". By the time he's off his desk I'm 3/4 of the way through, and it would be silly to stop me and turn me around.

Just because someone stops you and tells you that you can't do something doesn't mean you have to stop and discuss it. Just ignore it and move on in a polite and unconfrontational way. When I fill my prescription at Walgreens the door alarm constantly beeps. I'm not going to stand there, wait, and explain myself when they can see I just paid for it. And no one every chases me out.

Yes I know it makes me sound like passive agressive twit, but at least my day is productive. Even if told I couldn't I would still bike through a mall parking lot if it saved a lot of time. I doubt it would ever get to a private detaining and arrest situation.

Stupid rules need to be ignored and/or challenged. Yes I know it's completely subjective, but here's a good example.Case in point
jamesdenver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 12:42 PM   #18
deputyjones
Striving for Fredness
 
deputyjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Michigan
Bikes: Old Giant Rincon
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeane4
I was cited by the Local Mall Security for riding my bike on mall property. The funny thing is I was riding to work, which is in the mall. I appealed it to the head of their security department and now they will strictly allow me to ride to work only. This country is becoming so stupid. Its all BS.
I find the fact that you could even get a ticket from mall security kind of comical. It would be a worthless sheet of paper here, and I wouldn't get it because they also have no right to detain you in order to give it to you.

To the OP's point: I agree that we need to protect our children, but we also need to instill in them some reasonableness about life choices. Seems ridiculous to me.
deputyjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 12:50 PM   #19
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deputyjones
I find the fact that you could even get a ticket from mall security kind of comical. It would be a worthless sheet of paper here, and I wouldn't get it because they also have no right to detain you in order to give it to you.

To the OP's point: I agree that we need to protect our children, but we also need to instill in them some reasonableness about life choices. Seems ridiculous to me
.
Maybe the fact that she works in the mall makes a difference? Her employer might back up security and give her a really hard time?

As for the schools. I doubt if there is any evidence that cycling is more dangerous than driving or walking, especially for adolescents. Their accident rates are sky high for any mode of transportation except possibly busses. One additional problem is that new schools are frequently built in outlying areas, contribuing to sprawl, traffic, and dangerous commutes for students.
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 12:57 PM   #20
deputyjones
Striving for Fredness
 
deputyjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: West Michigan
Bikes: Old Giant Rincon
Posts: 1,190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody
Maybe the fact that she works in the mall makes a difference? Her employer might back up security and give her a really hard time?

As for the schools. I doubt if there is any evidence that cycling is more dangerous than driving or walking, especially for adolescents. Their accident rates are sky high for any mode of transportation except possibly busses. One additional problem is that new schools are frequently built in outlying areas, contribuing to sprawl, traffic, and dangerous commutes for students.
Agreed on the accident rate, and it is pretty ironic that they would remove any appearance of promoting cycling but their buses still don't have seat belts.
deputyjones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 01:03 PM   #21
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody
Wrong. What you hear on the Internet is always true.
Even more truthful than the "facts" spouted on the Letters to the Editor section of local newspapers? Hard to believe!
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 01:05 PM   #22
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Posts: 23,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deputyjones
Agreed on the accident rate, and it is pretty ironic that they would remove any appearance of promoting cycling but their buses still don't have seat belts.
Think the bused students should wear helmets too? Can't be too safe, ya know, eh?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 01:39 PM   #23
gwd
Biker
 
gwd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: DC
Bikes: one Recumbent and one Utility Bike
Posts: 1,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesdenver
This also has to do with the overprivatization of the country. (One of my interests). If a mall/lifestyle center or whatever encompasses such a large swath of land it's impractical to circumvent it (i.e. drains channels, private streets, non-ped friendly design), than that's something that should be addressed.

Keep riding your bike as you see fit. It's not the pentagon.
Last time I was there the Pentagon had bike racks. When I had to commute to Virginia the Pentagon was my favorite snow route because they cleared the multi-use paths around the parking lot while the adjacent Arlington and Alexandria did not clear their paths. It used to be more convenient to bike to the Pentagon than drive because the bike racks were closer to the door than the parking spaces.

Many military installations in this area are bike friendly with showers and bike parking.
gwd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 02:01 PM   #24
kjohnnytarr
Instigator at best
 
kjohnnytarr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Bikes: Motobecane Jury
Posts: 1,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesdenver
I have no problem ignoring stupid rules and laws. I understand the reason for such rules is insurance and liability issues in case you're hurt cruising through a parking lot, but plenty of people are hurt walking in parking lots too.

I go by the rule "better to ask forgiveness than permission". Last year I cut through the lobby of a skyscraper downtown to get to the other street, rather than walking around. I generally walk fast and with a sense of purpose, so it's obvious I'm not loitering. I get yelled at by security that "I can't come in without blah blah", but I just wave and say "passing through". By the time he's off his desk I'm 3/4 of the way through, and it would be silly to stop me and turn me around.

Just because someone stops you and tells you that you can't do something doesn't mean you have to stop and discuss it. Just ignore it and move on in a polite and unconfrontational way. When I fill my prescription at Walgreens the door alarm constantly beeps. I'm not going to stand there, wait, and explain myself when they can see I just paid for it. And no one every chases me out.

Yes I know it makes me sound like passive agressive twit, but at least my day is productive. Even if told I couldn't I would still bike through a mall parking lot if it saved a lot of time. I doubt it would ever get to a private detaining and arrest situation.

Stupid rules need to be ignored and/or challenged. Yes I know it's completely subjective, but here's a good example.Case in point
That's very wise; I try to do things the same.

Are you by chance any sort of explorer?
kjohnnytarr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-07, 06:36 PM   #25
brevig
Senior Member
 
brevig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Orlando, FL
Bikes: Schwinn Ranger 2.6FS
Posts: 74
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I guess it depends on the local. My younger cousin in Ft. Lauderdale informed me he no longer bikes to school because his highschool does not have bike racks.
brevig is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:26 AM.