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Thread: Disturbing

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    Disturbing

    I attended our bike club's monthly meeting last night and I heard something I found to be quite disturbing. A high school in a neighboring city removed their bike racks. They did it because they 1) did not want to promote/encourage biking to school because it's just too dangerous and 2) because they didn't want to be held liable should someone have an accident (since they were obviously encouraging biking by providing bike racks).

    So what's next? A ban on riding your bike to the supermarket because they don't want to be held liable? Is anyone else bothered by this? Is it possible that our biking lifestyle is being threatened to the point that biking will be not feasible anymore?



    (Yes, I am aware of my tendency towards jumping to the worst possible conclusion.)

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    Member chickPEA's Avatar
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    Is the school held liable if one of the students who DRIVES to school had an accident? I doubt it... That logic is just amazing...

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    Avatar Bandit jdeane4's Avatar
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    I was cited by the Local Mall Security for riding my bike on mall property. The funny thing is I was riding to work, which is in the mall. I appealed it to the head of their security department and now they will strictly allow me to ride to work only. This country is becoming so stupid. Its all BS.

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    Dog is my copilot. GGDub's Avatar
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    After one kid and one chaperone were swept away by a rogue wave in N. California 7 years ago, the amount of hoops my wife has to jump through just to take her dance class to a show in the evening is unbelievable. North American society has become one that makes decisions based on fear and liability and not on common sense. Just perusing the numerous helmet threads on this site is a good example. At some point in the last 20 years, the bicycle has become an extremely dangerous machine. I blame CNN and Mountain Dew commercials.

    ps-sorry my reply is kinda all over the place
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    bicyclist LandLuger's Avatar
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    GGDub is correct. We should hold our ire for the trial lawyers not the school officials.

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    Senior Member dynodonn's Avatar
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    I ride by my highschool on a weekly basis, and they still have the same bike racks when I was going there. There's probably the same number of bikes using it as when I was a student there, but there are more cars parked at the school and and far more empty seats on the buses.

  7. #7
    austropithicus
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandLuger
    GGDub is correct. We should hold our ire for the trial lawyers not the school officials.
    GGDub said that "North American society has become one that makes decisions based on fear and liability and not on common sense." He's right but you've got to realize that the lawyers aren't the ones MAKING the decisions based on fear and liability. The school officials are the scared decision makers.

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    Dare to be weird!
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    Maybe there really is no safe way to walk or bike to some schoools.

    There's really not much that can be done when anti-bike forces take over in a community. That's when you have to evaluate your choice of which community to live in.

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    Instigator at best kjohnnytarr's Avatar
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    Unacceptable. Pardon my crudeness, but the bigger perspective on the problem as I see it is this:

    If we treat our kids like wusses and idiots, that's what they will grow up to become.

    It's amazing how many parents, teachers, etc. treat kids as if they were incapable and stupid. I say, with conviction, that the best way to raise a child is to thrust responsibility upon them, and then hold them accountable for their actions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellenDSD
    A high school in a neighboring city removed their bike racks. They did it because they 1) did not want to promote/encourage biking to school because it's just too dangerous and 2) because they didn't want to be held liable should someone have an accident (since they were obviously encouraging biking by providing bike racks).
    The city just replaced a middle/high school complex in my neighborhood last year. They installed bike racks in the new complex where the old one had none. The pk-8 charter school across the street installed bike racks when they had their makeover two years ago. The charter school needs a few more bike spaces. Some mornings between the kids who ride and the parents who pack the very young ones all the spaces get filled.

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    Banned. ModoVincere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjohnnytarr
    Unacceptable. Pardon my crudeness, but the bigger perspective on the problem as I see it is this:

    If we treat our kids like wusses and idiots, that's what they will grow up to become.
    Too late, in many cases its already happened. Just my opinion.

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    jim anchower jamesdenver's Avatar
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    This also has to do with the overprivatization of the country. (One of my interests). If a mall/lifestyle center or whatever encompasses such a large swath of land it's impractical to circumvent it (i.e. drains channels, private streets, non-ped friendly design), than that's something that should be addressed.

    Keep riding your bike as you see fit. It's not the pentagon.

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    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdeane4
    I was cited by the Local Mall Security for riding my bike on mall property. The funny thing is I was riding to work, which is in the mall. I appealed it to the head of their security department and now they will strictly allow me to ride to work only. This country is becoming so stupid. Its all BS.
    I'm glad that you fought this and especially glad that you won (sorta). Good going!

    I wonder if anybody has ever tried to get help from local bicycle advocacy groups. There's strength in numbers.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

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    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesdenver
    This also has to do with the overprivatization of the country. (One of my interests). If a mall/lifestyle center or whatever encompasses such a large swath of land it's impractical to circumvent it (i.e. drains channels, private streets, non-ped friendly design), than that's something that should be addressed.

    Keep riding your bike as you see fit. It's not the pentagon
    .
    I agree. It's crazy that we've allowed our main commercial districts (that is, malls) to become privately owned. Then we taxpayers subsidize them with tax breaks, free or at least below-cost infrastructure, and exemptions from local and state laws, especially pollution laws.

    And "lifestyle center"! What the hell is that? Who do they think they're fooling? Shopping is a lifestyle? Zheeesh....


    "Think Outside the Cage"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ellenDSD
    I attended our bike club's monthly meeting last night and I heard something I found to be quite disturbing...(Yes, I am aware of my tendency towards jumping to the worst possible conclusion.)
    Did you ever find out if what you "heard" is correct about the reason for the removal of the school bike racks? Hint: what you "hear" isn't always true.

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    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Did you ever find out if what you "heard" is correct about the reason for the removal of the school bike racks? Hint: what you "hear" isn't always true.
    Wrong. What you hear on the Internet is always true.


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    jim anchower jamesdenver's Avatar
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    I have no problem ignoring stupid rules and laws. I understand the reason for such rules is insurance and liability issues in case you're hurt cruising through a parking lot, but plenty of people are hurt walking in parking lots too.

    I go by the rule "better to ask forgiveness than permission". Last year I cut through the lobby of a skyscraper downtown to get to the other street, rather than walking around. I generally walk fast and with a sense of purpose, so it's obvious I'm not loitering. I get yelled at by security that "I can't come in without blah blah", but I just wave and say "passing through". By the time he's off his desk I'm 3/4 of the way through, and it would be silly to stop me and turn me around.

    Just because someone stops you and tells you that you can't do something doesn't mean you have to stop and discuss it. Just ignore it and move on in a polite and unconfrontational way. When I fill my prescription at Walgreens the door alarm constantly beeps. I'm not going to stand there, wait, and explain myself when they can see I just paid for it. And no one every chases me out.

    Yes I know it makes me sound like passive agressive twit, but at least my day is productive. Even if told I couldn't I would still bike through a mall parking lot if it saved a lot of time. I doubt it would ever get to a private detaining and arrest situation.

    Stupid rules need to be ignored and/or challenged. Yes I know it's completely subjective, but here's a good example.Case in point

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    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdeane4
    I was cited by the Local Mall Security for riding my bike on mall property. The funny thing is I was riding to work, which is in the mall. I appealed it to the head of their security department and now they will strictly allow me to ride to work only. This country is becoming so stupid. Its all BS.
    I find the fact that you could even get a ticket from mall security kind of comical. It would be a worthless sheet of paper here, and I wouldn't get it because they also have no right to detain you in order to give it to you.

    To the OP's point: I agree that we need to protect our children, but we also need to instill in them some reasonableness about life choices. Seems ridiculous to me.
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

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    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyjones
    I find the fact that you could even get a ticket from mall security kind of comical. It would be a worthless sheet of paper here, and I wouldn't get it because they also have no right to detain you in order to give it to you.

    To the OP's point: I agree that we need to protect our children, but we also need to instill in them some reasonableness about life choices. Seems ridiculous to me
    .
    Maybe the fact that she works in the mall makes a difference? Her employer might back up security and give her a really hard time?

    As for the schools. I doubt if there is any evidence that cycling is more dangerous than driving or walking, especially for adolescents. Their accident rates are sky high for any mode of transportation except possibly busses. One additional problem is that new schools are frequently built in outlying areas, contribuing to sprawl, traffic, and dangerous commutes for students.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

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    Striving for Fredness deputyjones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody
    Maybe the fact that she works in the mall makes a difference? Her employer might back up security and give her a really hard time?

    As for the schools. I doubt if there is any evidence that cycling is more dangerous than driving or walking, especially for adolescents. Their accident rates are sky high for any mode of transportation except possibly busses. One additional problem is that new schools are frequently built in outlying areas, contribuing to sprawl, traffic, and dangerous commutes for students.
    Agreed on the accident rate, and it is pretty ironic that they would remove any appearance of promoting cycling but their buses still don't have seat belts.
    Monsignor: We must always fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil that we must fear the most, and that is the indifference of good men.
    Connor: I do believe the monsignor's finally got the point.
    Murphy: Aye.

    OttawaCountyDSA.com

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    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody
    Wrong. What you hear on the Internet is always true.
    Even more truthful than the "facts" spouted on the Letters to the Editor section of local newspapers? Hard to believe!

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    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputyjones
    Agreed on the accident rate, and it is pretty ironic that they would remove any appearance of promoting cycling but their buses still don't have seat belts.
    Think the bused students should wear helmets too? Can't be too safe, ya know, eh?

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    gwd
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesdenver
    This also has to do with the overprivatization of the country. (One of my interests). If a mall/lifestyle center or whatever encompasses such a large swath of land it's impractical to circumvent it (i.e. drains channels, private streets, non-ped friendly design), than that's something that should be addressed.

    Keep riding your bike as you see fit. It's not the pentagon.
    Last time I was there the Pentagon had bike racks. When I had to commute to Virginia the Pentagon was my favorite snow route because they cleared the multi-use paths around the parking lot while the adjacent Arlington and Alexandria did not clear their paths. It used to be more convenient to bike to the Pentagon than drive because the bike racks were closer to the door than the parking spaces.

    Many military installations in this area are bike friendly with showers and bike parking.

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    Instigator at best kjohnnytarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesdenver
    I have no problem ignoring stupid rules and laws. I understand the reason for such rules is insurance and liability issues in case you're hurt cruising through a parking lot, but plenty of people are hurt walking in parking lots too.

    I go by the rule "better to ask forgiveness than permission". Last year I cut through the lobby of a skyscraper downtown to get to the other street, rather than walking around. I generally walk fast and with a sense of purpose, so it's obvious I'm not loitering. I get yelled at by security that "I can't come in without blah blah", but I just wave and say "passing through". By the time he's off his desk I'm 3/4 of the way through, and it would be silly to stop me and turn me around.

    Just because someone stops you and tells you that you can't do something doesn't mean you have to stop and discuss it. Just ignore it and move on in a polite and unconfrontational way. When I fill my prescription at Walgreens the door alarm constantly beeps. I'm not going to stand there, wait, and explain myself when they can see I just paid for it. And no one every chases me out.

    Yes I know it makes me sound like passive agressive twit, but at least my day is productive. Even if told I couldn't I would still bike through a mall parking lot if it saved a lot of time. I doubt it would ever get to a private detaining and arrest situation.

    Stupid rules need to be ignored and/or challenged. Yes I know it's completely subjective, but here's a good example.Case in point
    That's very wise; I try to do things the same.

    Are you by chance any sort of explorer?
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    Senior Member brevig's Avatar
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    I guess it depends on the local. My younger cousin in Ft. Lauderdale informed me he no longer bikes to school because his highschool does not have bike racks.
    Richard Brevig
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