Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36
  1. #1
    Senior Member donrhummy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,484
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    This could offer a possibility for better human -powered travel

    This guy set the world record for distance traveled under a human-powered land vehicle in 24 hours (650 miles).

    http://www.eurekareporter.com/Articl...rticleID=13164

    But what's impressive about it is that with their testing, they found that you can go 28 mph in this vehicle with just 100 watts! WOW.

    (And just to give a comparison. Using http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm to guage watts required to go a certain speed, if you had 0 mph wind, 0% gradiant, were 0 ft above sea level, weighed 160 lbs, had a 19 lb bike and rode at 100 watts, you'd go about 14 mph)

    It uses clip pedals and a regular bike gear system.

    http://www.adventuresofgreg.com/HPVMain.html




    Last edited by donrhummy; 03-10-07 at 11:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Citizen lyeinyoureye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    no
    My Bikes
    yes
    Posts
    1,347
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Been there, posted that.
    Google Varna Diablo (80mph+ top speed on ~flat ground), WAW velomobile, or just velomobile. Going out on a limb, I'm guessing that a significant portion of this sub forum don't really care about the environment, efficiency, or HPVs in any significant way. Significant enough to do anything anyhoo... They just want to ride a bike and blabber on about how they're saving the world.


    Quote Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
    The advantage of bikes like the WAW and Co. is they minimize fluid friction, allowing for higher speeds at some energy level, say ~45kph@200W for the WAW. Now, if built for modularity, with the ability to be combined into a larger vehicle with the same drag, just proportionally more rolling friction because of the increase in weight, these may allow two to four cyclists to hit speeds in excess of 60-100kmh using ~200W from each. Kinda like drafting except much more effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by wheel
    I just got out of a cage a couple years ago I rather live close to everything instead.

  3. #3
    xyz
    xyz is offline
    Senior Member xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lansing
    Posts
    1,918
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Bet it costs as much as a car.
    Ride a Bike
    Help Prevent Oil Wars

  4. #4
    1. e4 Nf6 Alekhine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    7844`W, 4246`N
    My Bikes
    Mercian KoM with Rohloff, Bike Friday NWT, Pogliaghi Italcorse (1979)
    Posts
    870
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It looks about as comfortable as Alexander DeLarge's theater chair.
    Signature

  5. #5
    bicyclist LandLuger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    383
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My crude ebike conversion on my old Trek is good for 30 MPH on the flats without any rider input. If I were to install the same motor (clyte 406) on my Baron lowracer I would expect to hit 40+ MPH. Man, I would need a monster chainring for such a setup.

  6. #6
    Lurker extraordinaire Golf XRay Tango's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    4500' and climbing
    Posts
    137
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Velomobiles look like a really good way for more people to make the jump to human powered personal transportation. I'd love to have one, but I'm currently choking on the $10,000 price tag to get one into Canada.

    It would be great to be able to commute at an average of 30km/h even in a strong headwind. Right now I average that on no-wind days.
    Last edited by Golf XRay Tango; 03-10-07 at 09:12 PM.

  7. #7
    xyz
    xyz is offline
    Senior Member xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Lansing
    Posts
    1,918
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My cousin bought one, I don't think he rides it much anymore.

    http://outyourbackdoor.com/articles2004/hpv.race.html
    Last edited by xyz; 03-10-07 at 09:55 PM.
    Ride a Bike
    Help Prevent Oil Wars

  8. #8
    Senior Member donrhummy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,484
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I agree the pricetag is ridiculous but hopefully they can find a way to lower the cost. If they could build these things and sell them for $3-4K (and make them REALLY safe), I think you'd start to see some people buy them. The keys are making it cheaper and making it safe enough to be hit by a car.

  9. #9
    Senior Member ken cummings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    northern California
    My Bikes
    Bruce Gordon BLT, Cannondale parts bike, Ecodyne recumbent trike, Counterpoint Opus 2, miyata 1000
    Posts
    5,605
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I had a fully faired trike 20 + years ago. Inherently more stable then the two wheeler. Even with two of the NACA low-drag air vents I got dangrously over heated and dehydrated in the spring going from Las Vegas to LA, and again from LA to Northern California. Last generation, true but it ran 68 pounds trike and shell combined. Add in 30 lb of stuff (it was a tour) and it was a drag up hills. Trying to commute with it in Colorado the clear bubble dome would frost over in seconds in mid winter. Now I use a touring bike for commuting. In 1983 dollars it cost $2,300.
    This space open

  10. #10
    bicyclist LandLuger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    383
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by donrhummy
    I agree the pricetag is ridiculous but hopefully they can find a way to lower the cost. If they could build these things and sell them for $3-4K (and make them REALLY safe), I think you'd start to see some people buy them. The keys are making it cheaper and making it safe enough to be hit by a car.
    Last year when the the first WAW velos were being brought into the states, my understanding was that one could be had in kit form for about that price. As far as safety, there is a growing body of evidence in Europe--where these HPVs are vastly more prevalent--that survivability is greatly improved vs. a traditional bicycle. One story that was related to me was of a velomobilist who was broadsided at an intersection in the bicycle laneby a motorist running the red light at full speed. The pics were of the carnage to the velo were horrible, but the cyclist escaped with only a few scratches and a mild knock to the head--and I don't remember him saying he was wearing a helmet.

    The biggest minus to these vehicles is the lack of ventilation; as I understand it, the amount of airflow through the cockpit is a compromise between occupant comfort and aerodynamics. For this reason the concept of the human/electric velo will probably be the future of these HPVs.

  11. #11
    In the right lane gerv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Des Moines
    My Bikes
    1974 Huffy 3 speed
    Posts
    9,057
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Don't you think that thing would stink on a hot summer's day?

  12. #12
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    19,546
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Almost as practical as this:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #13
    Senior Member kf5nd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX 77095
    My Bikes
    Specialized Sequoia Elite, Schwinn Frontier FS MTB, Centurion LeMans (1986)
    Posts
    1,470
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Unworkable in Texas heat. Maybe OK for Northern Europe.

  14. #14
    Senior Member donrhummy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,484
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LandLuger
    The biggest minus to these vehicles is the lack of ventilation; as I understand it, the amount of airflow through the cockpit is a compromise between occupant comfort and aerodynamics. For this reason the concept of the human/electric velo will probably be the future of these HPVs.
    I agree. They're starting to be used in certain areas of Europe from what I've read but getting Americans to use them/trust them as an alternative to a car (not an alternative to the bike) will be a tough battle.

  15. #15
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    19,546
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by donrhummy
    I agree. They're starting to be used in certain areas of Europe...
    Where? And used for what? By how many Europeans? If more than can be counted on the fingers of one hand I'd be amazed.

  16. #16
    bicyclist LandLuger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    383
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ILTB, if I were subject to your harsh winter I would give a velomobile serious consideration. Anyway, here are some pics from the '06 rally for your consideration.

    http://www.cab-bike.com/english/year06.shtml

  17. #17
    Senior Citizen lyeinyoureye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    no
    My Bikes
    yes
    Posts
    1,347
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LandLuger
    As far as safety, there is a growing body of evidence in Europe--where these HPVs are vastly more prevalent--that survivability is greatly improved vs. a traditional bicycle.
    That's what I've heard too. The carbon fiber/Kevlar shell is expensive, but it's designed to hold up to crashes at ~80mph w/o wearing through or cracking to the point that the rider's health is at risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by LandLuger
    The biggest minus to these vehicles is the lack of ventilation; as I understand it, the amount of airflow through the cockpit is a compromise between occupant comfort and aerodynamics. For this reason the concept of the human/electric velo will probably be the future of these HPVs.
    A nice compromise would be a partially faired lowracer like the Windcheetah. There's ventilation, but the Cd is cut in more than half, so average speeds of ~30mph on human power are viable.

    Something else I've been wondering about, everyone insists on small NiMH/NiCD/Li-whatever battery packs for conversions, but considering how cheap deep cycle lead acid batteries are, and how little power is needed to average 40mph on a partially faired trike, two in parallel are the way to go imo. ~1500W should be enough to get something like a Windcheetah (homebuilt?) to 40mph, and T-105s can output 75W(12V)=1800W for ~2 hours, less motor losses, ~maybe ~1500W plus whatever the rider wants to input. Should go ~60 miles@40mph@20% capacity. So... maybe ~30,000 mile lifetime, and costs of under a cent per mile. Probably cheaper than food too... They'll add ~120lbs, but at $100/kwh, they're way cheaper than any other battery format in bulk (~$500-800$/kwh) and def way cheaper than the packs that come with the kits, like bionix or whatevs (~$1000-2000/kwh).

    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Where? And used for what? By how many Europeans? If more than can be counted on the fingers of one hand I'd be amazed.
    How many fingers you got?

  18. #18
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    19,546
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LandLuger
    ILTB, if I were subject to your harsh winter I would give a velomobile serious consideration. Anyway, here are some pics from the '06 rally for your consideration.

    http://www.cab-bike.com/english/year06.shtml
    Well I am amazed that there are that many at all. Got any pictures of a unicycle or high wheeler get together? Those vehicles should be just as practical and popular for human powered transportation.

  19. #19
    bicyclist LandLuger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    383
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye
    That's what I've heard too. The carbon fiber/Kevlar shell is expensive, but it's designed to hold up to crashes at ~80mph w/o wearing through or cracking to the point that the rider's health is at risk.



    A nice compromise would be a partially faired lowracer like the Windcheetah. There's ventilation, but the Cd is cut in more than half, so average speeds of ~30mph on human power are viable.

    Something else I've been wondering about, everyone insists on small NiMH/NiCD/Li-whatever battery packs for conversions, but considering how cheap deep cycle lead acid batteries are, and how little power is needed to average 40mph on a partially faired trike, two in parallel are the way to go imo. ~1500W should be enough to get something like a Windcheetah (homebuilt?) to 40mph, and T-105s can output 75W(12V)=1800W for ~2 hours, less motor losses, ~maybe ~1500W plus whatever the rider wants to input. Should go ~60 miles@40mph@20% capacity. So... maybe ~30,000 mile lifetime, and costs of under a cent per mile. Probably cheaper than food too... They'll add ~120lbs, but at $100/kwh, they're way cheaper than any other battery format in bulk (~$500-800$/kwh) and def way cheaper than the packs that come with the kits, like bionix or whatevs (~$1000-2000/kwh).



    How many fingers you got?
    I have championed the use of lead acid batteries in HPV applications for some time; however, most riders just can't get past the weight issue. My problem with other battery chemistries is that they have to be closely monitored and treated with kitten gloves to get the advertised life expectancy.

  20. #20
    bicyclist LandLuger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    383
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Well I am amazed that there are that many at all. Got any pictures of a unicycle or high wheeler get together? Those vehicles should be just as practical and popular for human powered transportation.
    This is a blog of sorts that was written by the editor of Bentrider in early 2006 I believe.

    http://www.cab-bike.com/news3d.shtml

    For my purposes the velomobile is attractive for the weather protection, cargo capacity, speed (I'm a flatlander), and safety.

  21. #21
    Senior Member donrhummy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,484
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Where? And used for what? By how many Europeans? If more than can be counted on the fingers of one hand I'd be amazed.
    I don't have the info on all of them but the TWIKE is just one of these vehicles. They've sold 750 in Switzerland and Germany alone. So, that's more than one hand.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWIKE

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    portland, or
    Posts
    288
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Its kind of cute, but completly impractical and ridiculous looking. You think you get harassed by drivers NOW, wait till you roll up to the stop light in that thing.

  23. #23
    Mister Goody Two Shoes KnhoJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    418
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
    Well I am amazed that there are that many at all. Got any pictures of a unicycle or high wheeler get together? Those vehicles should be just as practical and popular for human powered transportation.
    It's tough to haul groceries on a unicycle. Trust me.
    So when did practicality start playing a part around the circa-five-digit dollar bicycle mark? I guess, you could say that velomobiles might just be among the most practical in this price range...

  24. #24
    CRIKEY!!!!!!! Cyclaholic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    My Bikes
    several
    Posts
    4,193
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by donrhummy
    I don't have the info on all of them but the TWIKE is just one of these vehicles. They've sold 750 in Switzerland and Germany alone. So, that's more than one hand.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWIKE
    I love that TWIKE! are they available here in Australia? I can't find any info to suggest that they are.
    There are 10 types of people in the world - the ones that can count in base 2, the ones that can't count in base 2, and the ones that didn't expect this to be in base 3.

  25. #25
    Senior Citizen lyeinyoureye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    no
    My Bikes
    yes
    Posts
    1,347
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by LandLuger
    I have championed the use of lead acid batteries in HPV applications for some time; however, most riders just can't get past the weight issue. My problem with other battery chemistries is that they have to be closely monitored and treated with kitten gloves to get the advertised life expectancy.
    That was a rational and reasonable statement. What are you doing in the car free sub forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by le brad
    Its kind of cute, but completly impractical and ridiculous looking. You think you get harassed by drivers NOW, wait till you roll up to the stop light in that thing.
    BikezVCarz has been around for a long time, but bents, velos, and EVs with rider recharge like the Twike are generally treated with respect/room because they're unique.
    Quote Originally Posted by geebee on bents
    I have no issues with cars other than normal cycling problems i.e. doors etc. and they will give a trike much more room and are far less inclined to cut you off...
    Even heavily modded (~10-20mpg +) cars get this treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by basjoos
    I haven't had any problems with rude drivers since I gave my car the full aero treatment. Other drivers are too busy staring at my car to be thinking of behaving badly. My biggest problem is with people slowing down and pacing me in the passing lane while scoping out my car. In the meanwhile, traffic begins to pile up behind them. And the occasional driving who can't drive in a straight line while they are looking at something to their right who starts to drift into my lane while they are staring at my car. Fortunately my car is narrow and I tend to drive in the right portion of my lane.
    Last edited by lyeinyoureye; 03-12-07 at 03:01 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •