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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 09-12-07, 02:58 PM   #1
adgrant
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"The Spokes-Models" - Car free in Manhattan

http://www.observer.com/2007/spokes-models?page=0%2C0

An amusing read

"On a recent sunny Saturday afternoon, Vikki Eichmann was striding through the Union Square farmers’ market, one hand steering a sea-green, 1970’s Schwinn Breeze bicycle and the other tossing a curtain of silky brown hair over her bony shoulder. She was wearing a strapless plum-colored sundress and $400 Cole Haan knee-high boots. “They’re perfect because they’re sturdy and I don’t get scratches or bruises from the bike or anything,” Ms. Eichmann said, stopping to pick through a crate of peaches. “Plus they just plain look cute on a bike.” "
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Old 09-12-07, 03:36 PM   #2
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I think super models using bikes for transportation is a positive trend. I like it better than if they had taken up recreational riding with the special outfits and shoes. I see the trend in DC too but not super models.
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Old 09-14-07, 09:15 AM   #3
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I don't know. Super models in the special outfits might be nice.
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Old 09-14-07, 08:44 PM   #4
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I think super models using bikes for transportation is a positive trend.
Likewise.
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Old 09-15-07, 10:47 PM   #5
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It's pretty easy to laugh this off, but if they influence more people to use bikes as transportation that's definitely a good thing.
By the way, don't the majority of NYC residents not own cars anyways?
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Old 09-16-07, 12:55 AM   #6
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I had a hard time ignoring the negatives in the article. Cyclists riding against traffic not paying attention....but they're beautiful! They're still jackasses for possibly disrupting traffic and endangering other cyclists
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Old 09-16-07, 11:40 AM   #7
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Well, I bet this had some people wishing they were bicycle saddles!
I think pretty and famous girls riding bikes is definitely a positive thing. And I really don't know what people are whining about in terms of going through red lights and the like. I would urge you to do some research. It can actually be safer to the cyclist to go through a red than not; in the UK the high proportion of female cyclists killed on the roads is due to the fact they are more likely to stop at a red, putting them in the most dangerous place to be when the lights turn green. besides-I don't give a damn what a car driver thinks about me-if it pisses him/her off that I can go through red unpunished, let them get a bike themselves. There really are more pressing things to worry about than how you are regarded as a cyclist-the planet is dying all around us!!!
SO GET A GRIP (read: bike) AND RECLAIM THE STREETS!!!
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Old 09-16-07, 02:00 PM   #8
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I would urge you to do some research. It can actually be safer to the cyclist to go through a red than not;
Self-serving BS.

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in the UK the high proportion of female cyclists killed on the roads is due to the fact they are more likely to stop at a red, putting them in the most dangerous place to be when the lights turn green.
Nonsense.

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besides-I don't give a damn what a car driver thinks about me-if it pisses him/her off that I can go through red unpunished, let them get a bike themselves. There really are more pressing things to worry about than how you are regarded as a cyclist-the planet is dying all around us!!!
SO GET A GRIP (read: bike) AND RECLAIM THE STREETS!!!
So how do you feel about cyclists who blow red lights and t-bone other cyclists?
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Old 09-16-07, 02:19 PM   #9
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Well, Blue Order, before you start accusing me of "self serving BS" and spouting "nonsense", as I said... DO THE RESEARCH. This was headline news here in the UK. The report is public. Available to everyone, so don't get all self-righteous here. DO THE RESEARCH. READ THE FACTS. Then come back here and apologise, as this report is something that we have all known about in The Netherlands for many years. This is one of the reasons why in both The Netherlands and in Denmark bicycles can go through red if they wish.
And I hate cyclists that t-bone others just as much as everybody else. Sorry-did I say I raced through without regard for anyone, pedestrians and cyclists alike? No. That was your assumption. Self-righteousness coming out again. The point is that you give right of way where it is due, and proceed when you can. There is no point waiting for a red light if the road ahead is free. So please, do the RESEARCH first and check the FACTS, and then come back and make comments. For you being a senior member I had expected a bit more.
Sorry if this comes out strong, but don't bring your self-righteousness here and dismiss facts. One of my mates got killed in the throng when the lights turned green, because the car next to him thought he could quickly speed off and turn left before the bike got there.
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Old 09-16-07, 02:32 PM   #10
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Here is one of the many links to be found. Now try that self-righteous 'self-serving BS' line again...

Women cyclists ‘risk death’ by obeying traffic lights - Times OnlineWomen cyclists are far more likely to be killed by a lorry because, ... The box for cyclists to wait ahead of traffic at lights nearly always has cars in ...
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1695668.ece - Similar pages
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Old 09-16-07, 03:21 PM   #11
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Well, Blue Order, before you start accusing me of "self serving BS"
Sorry if that wasn't clear, I meant that EVERY cyclist who says that going through red is safer is spouting self-serving BS.

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and spouting "nonsense", as I said... DO THE RESEARCH.
I have done the research. How about instead of saying "do the research," you actually provide some research to back up your claims? There is research to provide, I presume?

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This was headline news here in the UK. The report is public. Available to everyone,
Too bad you can't link to this report that is "available to everyone."

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so don't get all self-righteous here.
Interesting accusation coming from the author of this statement:

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I don't give a damn what a car driver thinks about me-if it pisses him/her off that I can go through red unpunished, let them get a bike themselves. There really are more pressing things to worry about than how you are regarded as a cyclist-the planet is dying all around us!!!
I presume you may have heard of "projection"?

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DO THE RESEARCH. READ THE FACTS.
Again, it's rather unfortunate that you haven't been able to provide any...

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Then come back here and apologise, as this report is something that we have all known about in The Netherlands for many years. This is one of the reasons why in both The Netherlands and in Denmark bicycles can go through red if they wish.

And I hate cyclists that t-bone others just as much as everybody else. Sorry-did I say I raced through without regard for anyone, pedestrians and cyclists alike? No. That was your assumption.
Every cyclist who admist to running stops claims to carefully look before doing it, and yet the vast majority of cyclists on the street in this town just blow through without looking. Your own statement, that you hate cyclists who T-bone other cyclists, is evidence that it's not unheard of for cyclists to blow through intersections without looking. If oinly there were some way to prevent cyclists from killing other cyclists, pedestrians, and motorists in intersections...

And for the record, I made no claim that you race through red lights without regard for anyone. You read that non-existent claim into my statement.

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Self-righteousness coming out again.
You really do seem to have some serious self-loathing issues going on with all the projection your're engaging in...

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The point is that you give right of way where it is due, and proceed when you can. There is no point waiting for a red light if the road ahead is free. So please, do the RESEARCH first and check the FACTS, and then come back and make comments. For you being a senior member I had expected a bit more.
For somebody who endlessly repeats "do the research," I also expected a bit more...

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Sorry if this comes out strong, but don't bring your self-righteousness here and dismiss facts.
Sadly, you haven't provided any facts. Only projection.

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One of my mates got killed in the throng when the lights turned green, because the car next to him thought he could quickly speed off and turn left before the bike got there.
I'm sorry to hear that your mate got killed. Seriously. But what's not clear is who was at fault. Legally, the driver was at fault. In terms of safe cycling, it's not at all clear that your mate was properly positioned on the road, and for that reason, you can't use his death as evidence that running red lights is "safer" than not running red lights.

Last edited by Blue Order; 09-16-07 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 09-16-07, 03:31 PM   #12
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Here is one of the many links to be found. Now try that self-righteous 'self-serving BS' line again...

Women cyclists ‘risk death’ by obeying traffic lights - Times OnlineWomen cyclists are far more likely to be killed by a lorry because, ... The box for cyclists to wait ahead of traffic at lights nearly always has cars in ...
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1695668.ece - Similar pages


The VERY first sentence refutes your nonsensical claims. Women cyclists die because they wait in the driver's blind spot-- exactly what I said about your mate being positioned improperly. It's not evidence that running reds is safer than waiting for green, it's evidence that being improperly positioned is more dangerous than running reds.
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Old 09-16-07, 03:41 PM   #13
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This is one of the reasons why in both The Netherlands and in Denmark bicycles can go through red if they wish.
My understanding is that cyclists have their own light cycle in the Netherlands. That's not quite the same thing as "cyclists can go through red if they wish." Of course, I could be wrong, not having been to the Netherlands. Are you saying that in addition to having their own light cycle, cyclists may also *legally* disregard a red light?
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Old 09-16-07, 03:47 PM   #14
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I will agree with you on these two points:

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:the planet is dying all around us!!! SO GET A GRIP (read: bike) AND RECLAIM THE STREETS!!!
I absolutely agree. But behaving as a self-righteous a-hole towards anybody who isn't operating at your level of environmental awareness (are you vegan? I am...) is hardly conducive to creating the positive social changes that are absolutely essential to the survival of the vast majority of the Earth's species this century. If you want people to get on a bike, you won't accomplish that by behaving as if you are better than they, and frankly, the Earth can ill-afford that kind of attitude from her "advocates" right now.

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Well, I bet this had some people wishing they were bicycle saddles!
I think pretty and famous girls riding bikes is definitely a positive thing.
Couldn't agree more.
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Old 09-16-07, 04:32 PM   #15
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What happened to the supermodels? Did they get hit by a lorry?
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Old 09-16-07, 06:13 PM   #16
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It's pretty easy to laugh this off, but if they influence more people to use bikes as transportation that's definitely a good thing.
By the way, don't the majority of NYC residents not own cars anyways?
True, only about 40% of Manhattan residents own cars. That said, many of them use cabs frequently.
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Old 09-16-07, 06:19 PM   #17
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I had a hard time ignoring the negatives in the article. Cyclists riding against traffic not paying attention....but they're beautiful! They're still jackasses for possibly disrupting traffic and endangering other cyclists
Disobeying traffic signals is very common amongst cyclists in Manhattan. I don't think I have every seen any cyclist stop at a red light on the Central Park loop road. Another place where it is tempting to cheat is riding down the right side of 5th Ave along Central Park.

I have never seen a Food Delivery cyclist obey a traffic signal anywhere in Manhattan.
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Old 09-16-07, 06:49 PM   #18
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I have never seen a Food Delivery cyclist obey a traffic signal anywhere in Manhattan.
As far as I know, that's basically applies to bike messengers in all large U.S. cities too. And people cycling for their own transportation run lights only a little less.
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Old 09-17-07, 11:32 AM   #19
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What happened to the supermodels? Did they get hit by a lorry?
Yeah. The article could've used some photographs.
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