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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 09-24-07, 01:17 PM   #1
Nycycle
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If the day come

IF things came to be, that the majority of people parked the cars, and got on a bike, a new problem would arise, I just looked at the bill for car registration and thought "No big deal, but then, what about all those $$ they take for taxes when we fill the tank, the day may come when we have to pay some form of road tax.
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Old 09-24-07, 01:55 PM   #2
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Then again bicycles don't harm the road much at all compared to motor vehicles.
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Old 09-24-07, 02:19 PM   #3
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Registration fees pay for only a fraction of the wear and tear that cars put on roads (although it's true that large trucks do even more damage, proportional to what they pay). Gas taxes, again, offset only a fraction of what the government pays to subsidize oil infrastructure, and a laughably small fraction of the economic and health costs due to burning gasoline.

Driving is a heavily subsidized activity. Each person who gives up their car lightens, not increases, the need for additional taxes.
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Old 09-24-07, 03:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by divergence View Post
Registration fees pay for only a fraction of the wear and tear that cars put on roads (although it's true that large trucks do even more damage, proportional to what they pay). Gas taxes, again, offset only a fraction of what the government pays to subsidize oil infrastructure, and a laughably small fraction of the economic and health costs due to burning gasoline.

Driving is a heavily subsidized activity. Each person who gives up their car lightens, not increases, the need for additional taxes.
I don't know about everywhere, but I remember a news story about Oregon, and most of their road maintenance funds do come from motor fuel taxes. This story notes it's around 86 percent (as of April 2006)-
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_n19414839

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...to achieve rough revenue parity with the amount generated by Oregon's gas tax, which is currently 24 cents per gallon and which accounted for 86 percent of funds used for road construction, maintenance, and repair in 2004. Worse, Oregon's gas tax has not kept pace with inflation in recent years, say state officials, and voters show little inclination to raise it. ...
This story is about a scheme using GPS transponders to tax drivers by the miles they drive, and met with widespread derision when it was first proposed. Oregon was one of the first states to subsidize hybrid-auto purchases but a study found that if hybrid autos came into widespread use, the state's revenues from motor fuel tax would plunge ahd they had no other way to pay for road maintenance.

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Then again bicycles don't harm the road much at all compared to motor vehicles.
It's worth noting that part of the strain that roads endure is the loads placed upon them but another BIG factor is the climate: with the same construction and traffic use, road surfaces that must endure freezing winters don't last nearly as long as roads that stay above freezing year-round.
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Old 09-24-07, 04:12 PM   #5
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Oregon was one of the first states to subsidize hybrid-auto purchases but a study found that if hybrid autos came into widespread use, the state's revenues from motor fuel tax would plunge ahd they had no other way to pay for road maintenance.
I heard this too and was left wondering why they couldn't just raise the gas-tax?
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Old 09-24-07, 05:01 PM   #6
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A car free society wouldn't need nearly as many roads as our current society does, and those that it would need would be much narrower, and easier to maintain. I don't think it would be much of a problem.
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Old 09-24-07, 06:32 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Nycycle View Post
IF things came to be, that the majority of people parked the cars, and got on a bike, a new problem would arise, I just looked at the bill for car registration and thought "No big deal, but then, what about all those $$ they take for taxes when we fill the tank, the day may come when we have to pay some form of road tax.
I agree that new problems would arise, but I'm envisioning a different scenario. With increased cycling there will me more bicycle accidents (injuries and fatalities), more bicycle theft, more people riding like idiots, etc. In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd be required to register our bikes, have a bicycle rider's license (or endorsement on our driver's license), have our bicycles inspected, mandatory bike insurance, and the like. It'd obviously still be worth it to have a bike instead of a car, but I'm still not exactly looking forward to it.
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Old 09-24-07, 07:16 PM   #8
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In this case, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd be required to register our bikes, have a bicycle rider's license (or endorsement on our driver's license), have our bicycles inspected, mandatory bike insurance, and the like.

I think that the govnmn't looks at cars as a necessity but doesn't admit it, that way they can add taxes on that look voluntary and tax people with speed traps and all kinds of other fees. I'm more worried about that than roads deteriorating, but I doubt that any of this will happen in my life time, and I'll do whatever I can to stop it from happening.
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Old 09-24-07, 07:31 PM   #9
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Read this.

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Originally Posted by StreetsBlog
My report, Subsidies for Traffic (PDF), established that all levels of government combined spent considerably more building and managing roads in New York State than they reaped from gas taxes, road tolls and traffic tickets. For every dollar expended on the road network by government, drivers kicked in just 65 cents. The other 35 cents -- a cool $2 billion a year -- was paid for out of general revenues, primarily property taxes collected by cities, towns and counties.
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Old 09-25-07, 02:12 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Doug5150 View Post
It's worth noting that part of the strain that roads endure is the loads placed upon them but another BIG factor is the climate: with the same construction and traffic use, road surfaces that must endure freezing winters don't last nearly as long as roads that stay above freezing year-round.
~
Actually it is the loads placed on them that allows freezing weather to have the impact it does. Asphalt flexes under load. You canīt see it with the naked eye while watching a car drive past but it does flex. Put enough weight on it and it develops small cracks. It is these small cracks that fill with water which then freezes, expanding the cracks. Thaw occurs, more water enters crack, freezes, crack expands further, and on and on until a chuckhole forms.

Just look at a side street that was paved at the same time as a major thoroughfare, or better yet, look at an asphalt MUP and a major road that were laid at the same time. Locally, the section of the Cardinal Greenway that is near me goes for miles with no apparent degradation at all. On the other hand, several nearby streets that were laid after the Cardinal Greenway are either in dire need of repair, or have already been repaired.

A bicycle does not place enough load on asphalt to flex it, let alone crack it. If freezing weather was really a factor on road deterioration then you should expect to see some non-negligible percentage of MUP surface suffering the same fate.

If the roads were left solely to the bicycles and pedestrians they would eventually deteriorate, everything does, but their repair would certainly cost less than it currently does simply because it would be less frequent.

Average (my house provides more funding for this road than your car) Commuter.
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Old 09-25-07, 07:53 AM   #11
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Don't worry, they'll find some other way of taxing it out of us. Everyone, whether they ride or drive uses the roads so they'll probably tack it onto property tax.
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Old 09-25-07, 10:02 AM   #12
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Ad valorem taxes on automobiles go to fund more than simply road projects. They become part of the total budget of a county/district/city/whatever. That being said, in my county, we usually vote on a SPLOST (special local option sales tax) every couple of years to take care of road way rennovation that isn't paid for by the state. It generates much more than regular car registration does, $55 million every 3 years, or something like that. So, there are ways around the loss of funds from automobile registration.
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Old 09-25-07, 10:30 AM   #13
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Here in New York State, all the road fees and taxes, (exception: tolls on the NYS Thruway), plus all the fuel taxes go into the general fund. Then every year taxpayers are asked to approve a transportation bond (in other words, borrow money) to pay for roads and bridges. It's a silly system, but on the other hand, it means I pay just as much for roads as car owners do.
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Old 09-25-07, 12:11 PM   #14
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I would be happy to pay a registration fee and road tax every year as a carfree cyclist if the government actually used the money I forked out to (1) make more bike lanes, safe bike lanes, (2) clean the debri off of the existing bike lanes and bike paths, (3) stop closing the phucking bike path entrances because of adjacent construction! In Albuquerque, our bike paths are touted as something great, some kind of progress, but are blocked off a lot of the time!
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