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  1. #1
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    Can a car free cyclists sell carbon credits?

    Im car free.

    Can I advertise for carbon credits? Some rich dude can pay me like $200 bucks a month so I promise nto to drive. IN the meantime he can slap a bumper sticker on his SUV that makes him feel good.

    I really dont give two craps about global warming but I want to get in on the carbon credit scam myself!!!

  2. #2
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
    Im car free.

    Can I advertise for carbon credits? Some rich dude can pay me like $200 bucks a month so I promise nto to drive. IN the meantime he can slap a bumper sticker on his SUV that makes him feel good.

    I really dont give two craps about global warming but I want to get in on the carbon credit scam myself!!!
    Check with your soul mates from Nigeria on how to work this scam. They might be interested in your other economic theories too!

  3. #3
    Senior Member kf5nd's Avatar
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    lol

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    How is that any more of a scam than any of this other carbon credit crap?

    its just a way for the rich (see al gore) to look down their nose and someone poor or middle class driving an SUV while they are driving a whole damn fleet of them.

  5. #5
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    I looked for a serious answer to the OP's question.

    In North America you can sell voluntary, certified carbon offset credits through the Chicago Climate Exchange, if your carbon project offsets more than 10,000 metric tons of CO2 emissions. Each metric ton of CO2 offset is worth around $4 on the exchange. Certification would be done on a case by case basis as an energy efficiency and fuel switching project. I couldn't find any existing bicycle related carbon projects so you'd have to sell the idea to the exchange, obtain their certification and pay their fees.

    I guess the obvious question is how many metric tons of CO2 offset could be credited to an individual living car free.

  6. #6
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quick check shows that the average mid sized automobile emits about 4.5 metric tons of CO2 per year, base that on an average of around 13,000 miles driven and you have a basis for your carbon credits...sounds like you could get about $18 a year for your trouble...if you ride 13k miles a year and don't own a car. But personal experience says that if you are car free you won't cover the same number of miles you would if you had the car. My average mileage when I was car free was around 5,000 miles on an annual basis. With a couple of years in the 3,500 range. I currently consider my self car light in that I only drove 4,000 miles for personal reasons last year...the other 38,000 were company required (I know, I know I need a different job )

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

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  7. #7
    Senior Citizen lyeinyoureye's Avatar
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    Not many on the grand scheme since the miles covered by the average car free individual likely aren't close to what the average driver covers. Since the bicycle rider will also use fossil fuels, they have some, albeit lower, carbon emissions signature as well. I would guess the cyclist could offset ~.2-.4 metric tons of Carbon per year assuming a trade of about 3,000 bicycle miles for car miles. The personal economic incentives are already there for most Carbon cuts...

  8. #8
    www.chipsea.blogspot.com ChipSeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye View Post
    Not many on the grand scheme since the miles covered by the average car free individual likely aren't close to what the average driver covers. Since the bicycle rider will also use fossil fuels, they have some, albeit lower, carbon emissions signature as well. I would guess the cyclist could offset ~.2-.4 metric tons of Carbon per year assuming a trade of about 3,000 bicycle miles for car miles. The personal economic incentives are already there for most Carbon cuts...

    Poor reasoning. I am car free. If I had a car, I would add 13,000 miles of driving to the mix. It doesn't matter how many miles I go on my bike. My "carbon credit" would be for one years worth of car usage.
    Vehicular cycling techniques have not been tried and found difficult. They have been presumed difficult and not tried.

  9. #9
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    I also kill deer which are ruminants and supposedly emit greenhouse gases.

    I should get paid for that too. : )

  10. #10
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
    I also kill deer which are ruminants and supposedly emit greenhouse gases.

    I should get paid for that too.
    : )
    Nice try, but deer only emit greenhouse gases that would have been emitted anyway--and the energy you get from eating the venison is broken down and emitted by you as carbon dioxide (and other digestive gases that we won't go into).

    But I do think a bunch of bike people could get together and pool those carbon offset credits. How many cyclists would it take to offset a few tons of GHGs? Maybe we could spend spend the money on a big venison BBQ?


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  11. #11
    Senior Citizen lyeinyoureye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
    Poor reasoning. I am car free. If I had a car, I would add 13,000 miles of driving to the mix. It doesn't matter how many miles I go on my bike. My "carbon credit" would be for one years worth of car usage.
    You would add 13,000 miles of driving to the mix if you drove 13,000 miles. Unless you happen to bike around 50 miles a day five days a week, etc... I don't see how you would magically increase the distance you travel just by having a car. Unless you just decide to drive around and rack up 13,000 miles simply because you have a car...

    A person will travel however many miles they will per year. Be it on a car, bicycle, motorcycle, etc... Stating that a car-free person offsets the equivalent of 13,000 per year, instead of the actual distance they bike per year, is just silly. Why not go with 50,000? Or maybe 356 trillion? You, ChipSeal, alone, save the werld. Go you! So, anyway... Imo, a reasonable approximation is that a cyclist offsets however much Carbon is released by someone driving the same number of miles in a car, less the amount of Carbon needed for their fuel, food, likely via agribidness.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
    Poor reasoning. I am car free. If I had a car, I would add 13,000 miles of driving to the mix. It doesn't matter how many miles I go on my bike. My "carbon credit" would be for one years worth of car usage.
    So I guess to remain carbon neutral, each new driver would have to pay some other existing driver to go car free. It seems like we would quickly exhaust the small pool of existing drivers who might be easily persuaded to give up their car.

    How much do you think you'd have to pay an average driver to go car free for a year?

  13. #13
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Platy View Post
    How much do you think you'd have to pay an average driver to go car free for a year?
    I don't know, but I bet the oil and car companies do.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  14. #14
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Along the same lines...Terra Pass You can get a "yearly pass" for the average 12,000 miles of driving for $50. So that gives you something to shoot for... Personally I think there are better ways to reduce carbon emissions than by selling passes.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

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  15. #15
    Instigator at best kjohnnytarr's Avatar
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    I'm ashamed to say it, but I've thought of this true. I got a job instead though.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoshFrank View Post
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  16. #16
    www.chipsea.blogspot.com ChipSeal's Avatar
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    The whole idea of carbon credits is silliness writ large. No one would ever consider such foolishness in other contexts- say weight loss or smoking!

    Suppose I have been on a diet, but Thanksgiving holiday is coming up. I don't want to break my diet, but I want to indulge in the festivities as well. Solution: "Diet credits"!

    For a fee, someone else diets in my stead that day so I can indulge in all of my gluttonous desires guilt free! I haven't broken my diet! Woo hoo!

    My family demands that I stop smoking. I compromise with them and pledge to reduce my smoking from two packs of cigarettes a day to one. I do this by entering into the "smoking credits" market. That's right, meet my pledge I simply pay someone else to cut back his smoking so I don't have to!

    When global warming hysterics tout carbon credits as a way to reduce someones "carbon footprint", it damages their stature as clear thinkers and undercuts their credibility on other subjects.
    Vehicular cycling techniques have not been tried and found difficult. They have been presumed difficult and not tried.

  17. #17
    Bike Nerd Mr. Jim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye View Post
    A person will travel however many miles they will per year. Be it on a car, bicycle, motorcycle, etc... Stating that a car-free person offsets the equivalent of 13,000 per year, instead of the actual distance they bike per year, is just silly. .
    I agree that starting at an arbitrary number is silly, however years that I have owned a car i have definitely traveled farther than car free years. When you are using a bike for transportation you tend not to pick the shop that is 20 miles away to get something, even if it is your favorite shop. You tend to not make weekend trips out of town etc. For myself, I tend to not race (triathlon and running events) as much. Some quick math and I would say racing could add 3000 miles a year to my totals easy as an example.
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  18. #18
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jim View Post
    I agree that starting at an arbitrary number is silly, however years that I have owned a car i have definitely traveled farther than car free years. When you are using a bike for transportation you tend not to pick the shop that is 20 miles away to get something, even if it is your favorite shop. You tend to not make weekend trips out of town etc. For myself, I tend to not race (triathlon and running events) as much. Some quick math and I would say racing could add 3000 miles a year to my totals easy as an example.
    As wahoonc already pointed out, carfree cyclists do tend to travel less than drivers. I do about 5,000 miles a year in my bike and 4800 on the interurban bus. To be fair, you could use 13000 miles/year as a baseline. If somebody drove only 8000 they would get credit for the other 5000. A purist carfree person would get credit for the entire 13000.

    Of course I don't think this is a feasible way to decrease driving. I vote for better alternative infrastructure and a revenue-neutral carbon tax to accomplish that. Or gas rationing.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  19. #19
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChipSeal View Post
    The whole idea of carbon credits is silliness writ large. No one would ever consider such foolishness in other contexts- say weight loss or smoking!

    Suppose I have been on a diet, but Thanksgiving holiday is coming up. I don't want to break my diet, but I want to indulge in the festivities as well. Solution: "Diet credits"!

    For a fee, someone else diets in my stead that day so I can indulge in all of my gluttonous desires guilt free! I haven't broken my diet! Woo hoo!

    My family demands that I stop smoking. I compromise with them and pledge to reduce my smoking from two packs of cigarettes a day to one. I do this by entering into the "smoking credits" market. That's right, meet my pledge I simply pay someone else to cut back his smoking so I don't have to!

    When global warming hysterics tout carbon credits as a way to reduce someones "carbon footprint", it damages their stature as clear thinkers and undercuts their credibility on other subjects
    .
    This is a lame analogy. Smoking is an addiction that harms the smoker. Driving is an addiction that harms everybody.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  20. #20
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    This is a lame analogy. Smoking is an addiction that harms the smoker. Driving is an addiction that harms everybody.
    I contend smoking harms all of us to a certain extent. Second hand smoke and increased insurance premiums and health care costs. I haven't been in a hospital in over 35 years as an inpatient or outpatient, but I still pay my health insurance premiums and they sure as hell aren't going down. Maybe I should ask for a refund For what I pay in insurance premiums I could have bought a decent sized house...

    Aaron
    Last edited by wahoonc; 10-07-07 at 12:42 PM.
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
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    _krazygluon

  21. #21
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
    I contend smoking harms all of us to a certain extent. Second hand smoke and increased insurance premiums and health care costs. I haven't been in a hospital in over 35 years as an inpatient or outpatient, but I still pay my health insurance premiums and they sure as hell aren't going down. Maybe I should as for a refund For what I pay in insurance premiums I could have bought a decent sized house...

    Aaron
    You healthy people make me sick!

    I've dealt with both tobacco addiction and car dependency. Giving up cars was a hell of a lot easier! But I guess one point is that we're all in this together, breathing the same air. I doubt if our current version of capitalism is going to have much success at dealing with either health care or carbon emissions. This will require cooperation, not the unbridled greed that underlies contemporary capitalism.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  22. #22
    Rambler BanffBikeGirl's Avatar
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    How about we get everyone on this thread to add up their car-free milage, pool them together, sell the carbon offset credits, and donate the proceeds to a pro-bike charity?

  23. #23
    Viking Warrior JoeyMac's Avatar
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    I think New York State has some kind of tax advantage for those driving hybrid vehicles, on the basis that they are using less gas and emitting less. I use NO gas and emit NOTHING, besides a fart every once in a while. Where is MY tax advantage?
    "Rullende Torden" (norwegian for "rolling thunder")

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  24. #24
    www.chipsea.blogspot.com ChipSeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BanffBikeGirl View Post
    How about we get everyone on this thread to add up their car-free milage, pool them together, sell the carbon offset credits, and donate the proceeds to a pro-bike charity?

    Isn't my carbon fiber frame a form of carbon sequestration? Shouldn't that be added to our carbon offset account?
    Vehicular cycling techniques have not been tried and found difficult. They have been presumed difficult and not tried.

  25. #25
    www.chipsea.blogspot.com ChipSeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    As wahoonc already pointed out, carfree cyclists do tend to travel less than drivers. I do about 5,000 miles a year in my bike and 4800 on the interurban bus. To be fair, you could use 13000 miles/year as a baseline. If somebody drove only 8000 they would get credit for the other 5000. A purist carfree person would get credit for the entire 13000.

    Of course I don't think this is a feasible way to decrease driving. I vote for better alternative infrastructure and a revenue-neutral carbon tax to accomplish that. Or gas rationing.
    Too bad that no matter what we do, it won't be enough. According to IPCC and the EPA, atmospheric CO2 will rise from 380 PPM to between (best case, fully world wide regulation) 514 PPM to (worst case, no regulation and present trends) 718 PPM over the next 75 years or so. That would translate into a minimum rise in global temperatures of between 1.03 degrees or a maximum rise of 1.2 degrees Celsius.

    Yes boys and girls, if we change western civilization into third world style economies, we will reduce global temperatures by .18 degrees! I say, dang it all, let's do it!

    source: http://www.junkscience.com/ByTheJunkman/20071004.html

    Last winter the coldest it got here was -7 Celsius. If we had global warming it would've been a balmy -6! (Maybe it was rash of me to sell my mukluks.)
    This summers high of 40.5 was just uncomfortable, I can't imagine the horror of 41.7!

    It is hard for me to think that a change in the atmospheric gas ratios from 380/999,620 to 718/999,282 is enough to cause all this fuss.
    Vehicular cycling techniques have not been tried and found difficult. They have been presumed difficult and not tried.

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