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  1. #1
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    Here is another example where car free woulden't work!

    There are numerous fires in my area and I have my Tahoe(evil SUV) and one of my other cars packed with stuff so if I have to bail I can do so in a hurry, oh did I mention that it is windy as hell here and I bike is useless in 60 MPH winds. Glad I have my SUV it might just save my ass tonight.

  2. #2
    not a role model JeffS's Avatar
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    So that law requiring everyone to live out in the woods passed afterall eh?

  3. #3
    del dot
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    Naw; still tied up in committee. But they passed the one where if you do live out in the woods, and they're on fire, you're required to post pointless drivel to the internet.

  4. #4
    tired donnamb's Avatar
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    And misspell it, as well.
    "Real wars of words are harder to win. They require thought, insight, precision, articulation, knowledge, and experience. They require the humility to admit when you are wrong. They recognize that the dialectic is not about making us look at you, but about us all looking together for the truth."

  5. #5
    Instigator at best kjohnnytarr's Avatar
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    I don't get it... Are you trying to brag that you figured out a way to be able to live in a dangerously fire-prone area? Or are you recommending that the rest of us also purchase similar vehicles, so that we can live in unsafe areas? Yeah, I wish I could live there; it sounds great

    I'm not jealous of your "escape vehicle"; just like if you lived in Fallujah I wouldn't be jealous of your flak-vest.

    And don't kid yourself, that's not even why you bought it, and we all know it.
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    (By icing I mean puke and by cake I mean Lexus)
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  6. #6
    Crankenstein bmclaughlin807's Avatar
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    Oh, and just an FYI: My bike works just fine in 60 mph winds. Not always fun, but it works.
    "There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson

  7. #7
    put our Heads Together cerewa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donnamb
    And misspell it, as well.
    For some reason I can't explain, it makes me smile to see a mod making fun of a troll-post rather than just deleting it.
    Some awesome folks who are working to give Haitians the ability to manage their safety and their lives:
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  8. #8
    Formerly Known as Newbie Juha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Specialized fan View Post
    There are numerous fires in my area and I have my Tahoe(evil SUV) and one of my other cars packed with stuff so if I have to bail I can do so in a hurry, oh did I mention that it is windy as hell here and I bike is useless in 60 MPH winds. Glad I have my SUV it might just save my ass tonight.
    Your interesting idea of driving two cars simultaneously aside, evacuation by car just might work in remote areas with relatively few other people on the road at the same time. Everywhere else, you'll have lots of traffic. You need something more off-road capable than the Tahoe to beat that. Here's a thread about Katrina traffic jams in New Orleans:

    Cars not a good solution for hurricane evacuation?

    --J
    To err is human. To moo is bovine.

    Who is this General Failure anyway, and why is he reading my drive?


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  9. #9
    Neil_B
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerewa View Post
    For some reason I can't explain, it makes me smile to see a mod making fun of a troll-post rather than just deleting it.
    It's always fun to see a moderator get into the spirit of things.

  10. #10
    Sister Annie Sianelle's Avatar
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    We just had a long holiday weekend here in NZ. According to the radio reports on Friday night traffic was banked up for 8kms on the roads out of our largest city, Auckland. The capital, Wellington, was a little better at 5kms. Now if that'd been an evacuation and not just people trying to get away for a break over the 3 day weekend things would've been considerably worse. A car might be great for getting away from danger if you're the only one on the road, but as soon as several thousand other folk have exactly the same idea a car is worthless.
    OMNIPOTENS aeterne Deus, qui nos secundum imaginem Tuam plasmasti, et omnia bona, vera, pulchra, praesertim in divina persona Unigeniti Filii Tui Domini nostri Iesu Christi, quaerere iussisti, praesta quaesumus ut, per intercessionem Sancti Isidori, Episcopi et Doctoris, in peregrinationibus per interrete factis et manus oculosque ad quae Tibi sunt placita intendamus et omnes quos convenimus cum caritate ac patientia accipiamus. Per Christum Dominum nostrum. Amen.

  11. #11
    Senior Member maddyfish's Avatar
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    Sounds like you need to move somewhere safe.
    How far out do you live? Like Deliverance far?
    Not too much to say here

  12. #12
    Tarck Bike Dot Com bigbadwimp's Avatar
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    You guys are all a bunch of jerks! This guy is just giving his own reasons for why he is not car free, that's all. Myself, for example, I live on the moon and my bike seems to lose performance in zero gravity plus the commute time is a little ridiculous. Sure, I could live somewhere else and not own a gas guzzling rocket ship decked out in space survival gear but I'm an American, dammit, and guzzling gas is a right given to me by God himself.

  13. #13
    Crankenstein bmclaughlin807's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwimp View Post
    You guys are all a bunch of jerks! This guy is just giving his own reasons for why he is not car free, that's all. Myself, for example, I live on the moon and my bike seems to lose performance in zero gravity plus the commute time is a little ridiculous. Sure, I could live somewhere else and not own a gas guzzling rocket ship decked out in space survival gear but I'm an American, dammit, and guzzling gas is a right given to me by God himself.
    He's a troll. We're giving him back exactly what he wants. Don't get yourself all worked up on his behalf, he really doesn't deserve it. (Oh, and you're pretty good at this. )
    "There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson

  14. #14
    aspiring island dweller spinninwheels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwimp View Post
    You guys are all a bunch of jerks! This guy is just giving his own reasons for why he is not car free, that's all. Myself, for example, I live on the moon and my bike seems to lose performance in zero gravity plus the commute time is a little ridiculous. Sure, I could live somewhere else and not own a gas guzzling rocket ship decked out in space survival gear but I'm an American, dammit, and guzzling gas is a right given to me by God himself.
    I don't think that's the case. Glad to hear your happy with your God given rights.
    Life is either a wild adventure or nothing - Helen Keller

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwimp View Post
    You guys are all a bunch of jerks! This guy is just giving his own reasons for why he is not car free, that's all. Myself, for example, I live on the moon and my bike seems to lose performance in zero gravity plus the commute time is a little ridiculous. Sure, I could live somewhere else and not own a gas guzzling rocket ship decked out in space survival gear but I'm an American, dammit, and guzzling gas is a right given to me by God himself.
    I hear the moon is like paradise: Good schools (thanks NASA!), plenty of parking, and low precipitation.

  16. #16
    Crankenstein bmclaughlin807's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makeinu View Post
    I hear the moon is like paradise: Good schools (thanks NASA!), plenty of parking, and low precipitation.
    You forgot the low congestion, pollution, and crime rate.
    "There is no greater wonder than the way the face and character of a woman fit so perfectly in a man's mind, and stay there, and he could never tell you why. It just seems it was the thing he most wanted." Robert Louis Stevenson

  17. #17
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerewa View Post
    For some reason I can't explain, it makes me smile to see a mod making fun of a troll-post rather than just deleting it.
    Yes, it's far out, man, it brings to mind an archaic sense of the word 'mod,' as in Ronnie Lane and Steve Marriott.

  18. #18
    Senior Member shumacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juha View Post
    Your interesting idea of driving two cars simultaneously aside, evacuation by car just might work in remote areas with relatively few other people on the road at the same time. Everywhere else, you'll have lots of traffic. You need something more off-road capable than the Tahoe to beat that. Here's a thread about Katrina traffic jams in New Orleans:

    Cars not a good solution for hurricane evacuation?

    --J
    I evacuated from Slidell, LA to Baldwin, LA, and suffered only a ten mile stretch of stop-and-go traffic near Morgan City that resulted from me missing a turn to stay off Hwy 90, and a three mile stretch of slow traffic near Covington, LA where cars were being directed off the highway. I enjoyed a pleasant backroads drive, looking at all of the beautiful scenery along the way. My route looked something like this:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=e...=UTF8&z=9&om=1

    It was so pleasant, in fact, that a portion of it might be my first century route, if I ever get myself into that sort of shape. Of course, for the car free folks, I have to say the that crossing under I-10 near Sorrento was just scary. It was jarring. Cops were everywhere, cars were parked on the interstate, the Waffle House and McDonald's were packed with people sporting the thousand yard stare of someone who'd been on the road for six hours at 3mph. The scene was toxic, and I was glad to hit the restroom, grab my McMuffin and go.

    Now, I'm not saying that a bike would have been bad. Heck no, if I were in New Orleans proper, it would have been great. If my car had failed in traffic, I would have loved having a bike. As it was, I took my mother with me, and loaded the Jetta, and everything went fine. The important thing is leaving early, and avoiding everyone's first choice route. I'm not car free now, but I'm seriously considering it, mostly for heath and financial reasons. Car lite might be a better choice, as my Jetta seems to fixed costs of about $53/mo. I'd have to pay more for cable TV. I'll just use gas as I need it, and use my bike so I don't need it so often.

    My point: Cars are tools. Do you need one? Maybe. Some people live farther from supplies than their fitness, and/or practicality allows them to travel. Some people aren't possessed of the health required to make these trips on their own, and a car provides them mobility. Some people have a high enough income and lead busy enough lives that the car pays for itself, and the time lost to slower transit represents a financial burden. I don't doubt OP was a troll, but the evacuation from Katrina was one of the times I most appreciated owning a reliable car.
    Last edited by shumacher; 10-22-07 at 08:30 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by shumacher View Post
    Some people have a high enough income and lead busy enough lives that the car pays for itself, and the time lost to slower transit represents a financial burden.
    Why do some people always assume that traveling in a car is always faster and more expensive than other forms of transit? You know, some people have a high enough income and lead busy enough lives that taking the Acela express train pays for itself. The time lost to cheaper, slower transit (such as driving) represents a financial burden.

  20. #20
    Senior Member shumacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makeinu View Post
    Why do some people always assume that traveling in a car is always faster and more expensive than other forms of transit? You know, some people have a high enough income and lead busy enough lives that taking the Acela express train pays for itself. The time lost to cheaper, slower transit (such as driving) represents a financial burden.
    Makeinu, are you saying that I assume such a thing?

  21. #21
    Infidel oldfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwimp View Post
    .... I live on the moon and my bike seems to lose performance in zero gravity ...
    The moon has gravity.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shumacher View Post
    I evacuated from Slidell, LA to Baldwin, LA, and suffered only a ten mile stretch of stop-and-go traffic near Morgan City that resulted from me missing a turn to stay off Hwy 90, and a three mile stretch of slow traffic near Covington, LA where cars were being directed off the highway. I enjoyed a pleasant backroads drive, looking at all of the beautiful scenery along the way. My route looked something like this:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=e...=UTF8&z=9&om=1

    It was so pleasant, in fact, that a portion of it might be my first century route, if I ever get myself into that sort of shape. Of course, for the car free folks, I have to say the that crossing under I-10 near Sorrento was just scary. It was jarring. Cops were everywhere, cars were parked on the interstate, the Waffle House and McDonald's were packed with people sporting the thousand yard stare of someone who'd been on the road for six hours at 3mph. The scene was toxic, and I was glad to hit the restroom, grab my McMuffin and go.

    Now, I'm not saying that a bike would have been bad. Heck no, if I were in New Orleans proper, it would have been great. If my car had failed in traffic, I would have loved having a bike. As it was, I took my mother with me, and loaded the Jetta, and everything went fine. The important thing is leaving early, and avoiding everyone's first choice route. I'm not car free now, but I'm seriously considering it, mostly for heath and financial reasons. Car lite might be a better choice, as my Jetta seems to fixed costs of about $53/mo. I'd have to pay more for cable TV. I'll just use gas as I need it, and use my bike so I don't need it so often.

    My point: Cars are tools. Do you need one? Maybe. Some people live farther from supplies than their fitness, and/or practicality allows them to travel. Some people aren't possessed of the health required to make these trips on their own, and a car provides them mobility. Some people have a high enough income and lead busy enough lives that the car pays for itself, and the time lost to slower transit represents a financial burden. I don't doubt OP was a troll, but the evacuation from Katrina was one of the times I most appreciated owning a reliable car.

    I will be glad when you guys get some TV's in NO. I knew about katrina and NO possibly flooding days before it actually happened. Most people there seemed SHOCKED that it happened. Hell I could have walked at least 75 miles north before the hurricane struck. On my bike I could have been 400 miles north of NO.

  23. #23
    Senior Member shumacher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gosmsgo View Post
    I will be glad when you guys get some TV's in NO. I knew about katrina and NO possibly flooding days before it actually happened. Most people there seemed SHOCKED that it happened. Hell I could have walked at least 75 miles north before the hurricane struck. On my bike I could have been 400 miles north of NO.
    You know how the news can be - they seem to pick the dimmest, most out-of-sorts person to give a soundbite. Well, I don't own a TV, but I try to know what's going on. Here's the thing: nearly everyone knew New Orleans would flood. I knew it, the newspapers knew it, the people on the radio knew it, people on the street knew it. You couldn't go near any form of media or any human without hearing that New Orleans would flood, and that Katrina looked like "the big one". ("The Big One" seemingly ingrained in New Orleans culture as a hurricane that would seriously damage the city, and usually a prelude to someone older talking about the last big one, usually Betsy.) Officials were begging people to leave. Begging!

    In the future, I'd like to see trains and/or barges on the Mississippi used to speed evacuations. Now that I live in Hammond, I think I'm fairly safe from storm surge.

  24. #24
    Tarck Bike Dot Com bigbadwimp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldfool View Post
    The moon has gravity.
    Oh sure, the moon does but that big gap between the moon and earth is rather troublesome. If you don't get enough momentum...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by shumacher View Post
    Makeinu, are you saying that I assume such a thing?
    Well, in the context of the following statement you did:
    Quote Originally Posted by shumacher
    Some people have a high enough income and lead busy enough lives that the car pays for itself, and the time lost to slower transit represents a financial burden.
    Saying that driving a car pays for itself means that it results in a higher net income than all other possible choices. In the context of a busy high income life, it's only fair to say that driving a car pays for itself if choosing to drive always results in a higher net income independent of the other choices you might make for your busy high income life.

    This makes sense. For example, suppose you were a consultant that had a choice between two jobs (job A and job B), both with a business dress code. Then you might say that buying a new suit pays for itself. However, if job B had a casual dress code then it wouldn't make sense to say that buying a new suit pays for itself because not buying the suit and taking job B is better than buying the suit and taking job B.

    Likewise, in the context of a busy high income life, one can choose to drive and live in suburban sprawl, not drive and live in suburban sprawl, drive and not live in suburban sprawl, or not drive and not live in suburban sprawl. Although driving and living in suburban sprawl may result in a higher net income than not driving and living in suburban sprawl, it may also be true that not driving and not living in surburban sprawl results in a higher net income than driving and not living in suburban sprawl. Furthermore, it may even be true that not driving and not living in suburban sprawl results in a higher net income than driving and living in suburban sprawl. Therefore, choosing to drive a car is not necessarily the choice of highest net income. So it's not fair to say that it pays for itself.

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