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Thread: to the kids

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    to the kids

    i was reading the teenage car free thread ans was shocked that most of them were just going to bypass getting a drivers license .

    this is a bad idea

    in your future you may have to work a less than ideal job where you need to drive a vehicle provided by your employers

    you may someday need to move a longer distance than you can bike or you may need to travel a few towns or states over for something be it a dr or a meeting . it will be nice to be able to rent a car for that one day or rent a uhaul.

    by all means live as car free or car lite as you can but dont be dumb about it

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    oh by the way im personally car lite since my girlfriend drives a car and the only time i ride in it is when were going somewhere together , thanks guys

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    Senior Member Mahatma Zombie's Avatar
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    +1,000 Tony! Good advice!
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    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    I think it's great that they're not getting their DLs. It shows they're committed to being part of the first post-auto generation.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCtattoo View Post
    i was reading the teenage car free thread ans was shocked that most of them were just going to bypass getting a drivers license .

    this is a bad idea

    ...

    by all means live as car free or car lite as you can but dont be dumb about it
    To the kids: Do not be swayed by the above propaganda. If you admire an unlicensed lifestyle, embrace it. There will be costs. Of course there will be costs. If there weren't, everybody would already be doing it. The benefit is that your everyday life will be consonant with your beliefs. Test your beliefs and see where they take you.
    "Le souffle des quatre vents décuple ma puissance."

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    Those so called kids will become our greatest generation ever. They'll have to be. We've signed their names to a lot of economic and environmental IOU's. They will spend their entire lives dealing with the issues we boomers never had the courage and intelligence to confront. I'm sure they appreciate all the wise and insightful advice from us they can get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Platy View Post
    Those so called kids will become our greatest generation ever. They'll have to be. We've signed their names to a lot of economic and environmental IOU's. They will spend their entire lives dealing with the issues we boomers never had the courage and intelligence to confront. I'm sure they appreciate all the wise and insightful advice from us they can get.
    Some of us boomers spent our lives working on the problems our parents left us, like economic and environmental IOUs. The rivers and air and land were dirtier around here when I was a kid. I hope these kids continue to make improvements.
    The boomer generation cleaned up exhaust emissions to an extent maybe these car free kids can reduce auto dependence.

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    Listen to the OP kids. Having a license doesn't mean that you have to use it, and it's something that you may end up needing every once and a while.

    Take this for example:
    If I go out to the bar with friends, if they get wasted, and I am not, I can drive them home. With out a license I wouldn't be able to do that(legally).

    In addition there is the occasional time, such as moving housing when you may want to be able to rent a truck for a day to get some heavy moving done.
    In the words of Einstein
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I think it's great that they're not getting their DLs. It shows they're committed to being part of the first post-auto generation.
    Thanks, Roody! I actually did get a license, but I never drive anymore. I won't renew it when it expires, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoshFrank View Post
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    "Take this for example:
    If I go out to the bar with friends, if they get wasted, and I am not, I can drive them home. With out a license I wouldn't be able to do that(legally)."

    Ever hear of a taxi?

    You can what if forever, but beleive it or not people somehow survived for millions of years without a driver's licence.

    When I was in the Army, they wanted me to get a military driver's licence so I coiuld drive Army trucks only in case of emergencies. I failed the driving test. Why, because I was not ever going to be stuck in some motor pool. It was OK. People have a way of adapting to the situation at hand.
    Last edited by velocycling; 11-28-07 at 02:07 PM.

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    Have to drive? This seems very narrow minded...

    So somebody never gets a drivers license...big deal. I have relatives who never driven in their life (my Mom is one of them) and they have done just fine.

    Plenty of people born and raised in New York who choose to stay there never drive in their lifetime.

    What about all the other people world wide who never even get near a car, let alone drive one?
    May you live long, live strong, and live happy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by velocycling View Post

    You can what if forever, but beleive it or not people somehow survived for millions of years without a driver's licence.

    When I was in the Army, they wanted me to get a military driver's licence so I coiuld drive Army trucks only in case of emergencies. I failed the driving test. Why, because I was not ever going to be stuck in some motor pool. It was OK. People have a way of adapting to the situation at hand.
    A license is a potentially useful tool with a 1 time cost associated with it, as opposed to a car, which has re-occurring costs. There is no reason not to get one, besides making a statement, and many potential reasons why it may be useful at some point in the future.
    In the words of Einstein
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    heh love how you guys can tell these kids "sure go ahead and cripple yourself and reduce your employability" just because its how you choose to live. getting a license isn't doesn't mean daily driving.

    but without a degree for a job that lets you sit on your butt all day you have about a half and half chance your going to have to drive at whatever job you get.

    not all these kids are going to be able to live at their mommys until they can find the perfect job at age 40

    most of them in fact live in the real world where people have to move for jobs and have to work places less than perfect doing things they don't exactly want to.

    and not everyone lives in
    new england chicago or socal wher public transport is available. theres no such thing as public transit around where I live and to move would require , you guessed it "driving" and theres more places like where I live than where you live.

    but hey if they follow your advice you will probably get what you want "seeing that not many homeless people are driving these days" but hey at least your agenda gets fufilled.

    I personally live very very car light so im not advocating go buy a hummer and drive to your mailbox to get the mail. im just saying use some common sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by velocycling View Post
    "Take this for example:
    If I go out to the bar with friends, if they get wasted, and I am not, I can drive them home. With out a license I wouldn't be able to do that(legally)."

    Ever hear of a taxi?

    You can what if forever, but beleive it or not people somehow survived for millions of years without a driver's licence.

    When I was in the Army, they wanted me to get a military driver's licence so I coiuld drive Army trucks only in case of emergencies. I failed the driving test. Why, because I was not ever going to be stuck in some motor pool. It was OK. People have a way of adapting to the situation at hand.
    you take for granted that everyone everywhere has the same luxuries as you do. throught the mid west and central US taxies are limited to very large cities . where I live it cost 200 dollars for a taxi to come pick you up because it has to come from the nearest big city and you have to pay in advance over the phone with a credit card. and you go a few miles north and most people there have never seen a taxi in real life.

    not everyone is like you and was raised in the perfect enviroment for license free life.

    and once again the alternative to living here is to move which includes driving or paying a moving company to move your stuff and around here they have a 2000 dollar minimum for moving things out of the city

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    I have to agree with the original poster, I see no problem with living car free or car lite and having a driver's license.

    -Nate
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    Instigator at best kjohnnytarr's Avatar
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    Common sense tells me not to sell out on my principals just to get a job I won't like. I'd rather live in a studio apt. in a less "classy" part of town while commuting by bike than take a "nice" place in the 'burbs and/or work someplace that wants to put me in a cage. Then again, given the option most "successful" people will choose life in exurbs over urban-renewal and gentrification... I guess car-culture creates more pervasive issues than just driving v. not-driving, and if you really want to take a stand, it's all or nothing.

    Abstaining from personally owning and operating a motor vehicle isn't enough; stopping the trend means totally isolating yourself from the cycle of urban-sprawl that feeds car-culture and vice-versa. When you allow cars to enable businesses and people to de-centralize your city, you're contributing to a system that encourages waste of resources and space, which in turn causes inefficiency and inequality.

    Urban-sprawl creates communities with de-facto segregation, and this in turn brings about juvenile-delinquincy in more affluent neighborhoods, and forces the youths in poorer neighborhoods to enlist in a lifetime of poverty where they will subside on the scraps handed to them from capitalist-controlled trickle-down economies.

    Many people choose not to live in urban-centers because of crime-statistics. The truth is, crime is prevalent in de-centralized suburbs and exurbs as well; the only difference is that in those areas the crime is recreational, while in inner-cities it's an attempt to raise personal status enough to move away. Gentrification (enabled by defeating car-culture) will revitalize inner-cities, and so both of these reasons for crime will disappear in those areas.

    -----------------------------------

    So, while obtaining a drivers' license will potentially help a young person chase down "The American Dream" a little faster, it ultimately encourages a system that eats our cities from the inside out. As was said earlier, our generation won't have the luxury of trading our personal interests in the present for the good of everyone in the future; it's too late for that.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCtattoo View Post
    heh love how you guys can tell these kids "sure go ahead and cripple yourself and reduce your employability" just because its how you choose to live. getting a license isn't doesn't mean daily driving.

    but without a degree for a job that lets you sit on your butt all day you have about a half and half chance your going to have to drive at whatever job you get.

    not all these kids are going to be able to live at their mommys until they can find the perfect job at age 40

    most of them in fact live in the real world where people have to move for jobs and have to work places less than perfect doing things they don't exactly want to.

    and not everyone lives in
    new england chicago or socal wher public transport is available. theres no such thing as public transit around where I live and to move would require , you guessed it "driving" and theres more places like where I live than where you live.

    but hey if they follow your advice you will probably get what you want "seeing that not many homeless people are driving these days" but hey at least your agenda gets fufilled.

    I personally live very very car light so im not advocating go buy a hummer and drive to your mailbox to get the mail. im just saying use some common sense.

    Common sense? You might want to think on this one a little longer.

    1) The vast majority of the working public does NOT have to drive as a requirement of their job.
    2) The vast majority of those who do chose that job - it wasn't forced upon them.
    3) Noone is forced to live in a town without public transportation (or an area of a town without it)
    4) You do not have to drive to move.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't get a license. I am, however, saying that most of your arguments are based upon incorrect assumptions.

    Hey, I own a car too, but if I wanted to be permanently car-free within a month I could.

    - put my house up for sale
    - sell the cars
    - locate a job in a more suitable location
    - locate housing in a suitable location
    - call a moving company to come pack my house
    - call a cab to carry me to the airport, bus or train station

    The inevitable retort is "not everyone can..."
    Well, maybe not, but at some point in everyone's life they made a decision that lead them where they are today. You chose to be a traveling salesman, or a pizza delivery driver, or you chose to buy the house in the suburbs, or to stay in the small town.

    If these people really wanted to change the way they lived, they could -- and they wouldn't consider it a sacrifice. They don't want to. I'm fine with that, but they should stop making excuses. Just say "i don't want to" and leave it at that.

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    good lord I had no idea I was responding to fundamentalist. wether its religion politics or a lifestyle choice your all the same with the same cult mentality. you could care less what happens to these kids this is just a opportunity for you to spam your lifestyle and attack anyone who has an opinion other than yours.

    seriously from your responses I get visuals of you guys giggling everytime someone dies from a carbomb simply because it means theres one less car on earth.

    being car free light is not a all or nothing assault on anyone who has anything to do with cars. theres no reason to even continue this conversation. its about the same as arguing religion with jerry farwell. or those nutjobs in kansas that protest funerals. or arguing politics with, well anyone.

    fine kids don't learn to drive but please don't spit in my food when I stop at your drive thru cause I told you so. anyhow carry on

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    Quote Originally Posted by squegeeboo View Post
    A license is a potentially useful tool with a 1 time cost associated with it, as opposed to a car, which has re-occurring costs. There is no reason not to get one, besides making a statement, and many potential reasons why it may be useful at some point in the future.
    Depends on the area. In NC you HAVE TO have insurance to have a drivers' license. and supposedly to get insurance you have to have a vehicle. Otherwise it is stamped "Commercial Use Only" and there are penalties for using in a private vehicle.

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    I got a license around sixteen. went through two junker cars, too, and all in a town (Ann Arbor MI) which Roody can confirm is NOT the sort of place you need a car in. It was nice to have, for awhile, place to make out with the girls and smoke reefer, before i got moved out on my own. Eventually moved to Chicago, sold the car to do it, never got another. The license expired 8 years ago. I've since moved from Chicago to Oakland, got a place near the BART, and do a mixed light-rail/bike commute to work. It's great, it works fine, no problem. I work as a microbiologist at an algae biofuels company; i'm not going to be spitting in anyone's McBurger anytime soon.

    Basically, if you want to stay in the sticks, more power to you, and you might just need a car for that. But if you would prefer the exciting urban life in the large cities worth living in (New York, Chicago, SF Bay, Portland and Seattle being the only places in the US I'd personally want to live in), you don't ever need a license, nor should you waste time getting one if you don't want to.

    If I had never gotten a license... it would have made no difference whatsoever in the important details of my life. Pretty much as soon as i moved out of the house i stopped driving, and don't intend to start. If I wanted to, though, I could.... get a drivers license! It's not hard to do, if it turns out you actually need one.

    PS I think TonyCTattoo is SpecializedFan.

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    Instigator at best kjohnnytarr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCtattoo View Post
    good lord I had no idea I was responding to fundamentalist. wether its religion politics or a lifestyle choice your all the same with the same cult mentality. you could care less what happens to these kids this is just a opportunity for you to spam your lifestyle and attack anyone who has an opinion other than yours.
    ...
    What?!! I am "these kids," dude!

    And how does you rationalizing your choices make you any better than me? (Don't answer that, it's rhetorical)






    Have fun f***ing with our country's infrastructure and encouraging kids to continue the cycle.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCtattoo View Post

    in your future you may have to work a less than ideal job where you need to drive a vehicle provided by your employers


    by all means live as car free or car lite as you can but dont be dumb about it
    You Don't Get It.

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    TC tattoo, you are an artist. How many of your fellow artist have college degrees or even HS. Does that limit them in the employment? Yes, so. They still make a decent living. This is more of a limiting factor then a driver's licence. Also, how many of them have tattoos that are on their necks, faces or other places. These will limit your job choices alot more them not being able to drive a car. Think about that next time someone wants you to tattoo their neck, face whatever. I think you should talk them out of it because they are liminig theit job employment permently. You are right anybody can drive anytime but you know they can not remove a tat so easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyCtattoo View Post
    good lord I had no idea I was responding to fundamentalist. wether its religion politics or a lifestyle choice your all the same with the same cult mentality. you could care less what happens to these kids this is just a opportunity for you to spam your lifestyle and attack anyone who has an opinion other than yours.

    seriously from your responses I get visuals of you guys giggling everytime someone dies from a carbomb simply because it means theres one less car on earth.

    being car free light is not a all or nothing assault on anyone who has anything to do with cars. theres no reason to even continue this conversation. its about the same as arguing religion with jerry farwell. or those nutjobs in kansas that protest funerals. or arguing politics with, well anyone.

    fine kids don't learn to drive but please don't spit in my food when I stop at your drive thru cause I told you so. anyhow carry on

    I'm sorry that you're unable to think outside your preconceptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
    Depends on the area. In NC you HAVE TO have insurance to have a drivers' license. and supposedly to get insurance you have to have a vehicle.
    You sure about that insurance requirement just to have/hold a driver's license? I know you have to drive an insured car to take the driver's test, but the car owner's (usually a teenager's parent) insurance should fill that requirement. You mean car free people have to turn in their driver's licenses? Better check that "requirement" again.

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