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Thread: Ped Deaths

  1. #1
    gwd
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    Ped Deaths

    Here's a link to a story about pedestrian deaths in DC.
    I liked this part:

    Linden attributes the number of fatalities in part to a growth in pedestrian activity. "We're becoming a walking city much more than we were in the 1970s," Linden said. "A lot of people today view owning an automobile as an unnecessary appendage."

    Unnecessary appendage.

    I didn't like this part:
    "The driver of the vehicle was identified as Laurence Panton, a District resident. No charges have been filed, but the case is being investigated by the D.C. police's major crash investigation unit, said Officer Kenny Bryson, a police spokesman. "

    If you kill someone any other way you get locked up, but use a car to kill a pedestrian and they try to find a way to blame the pedestrian.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...113002289.html

  2. #2
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Here's what I don't like --

    Pedestrians in DC thinking that, because there's a few picoliters of ink on a piece of paper in City Hall describing a law "protecting" pedestrians, they don't have to look both ways before crossing the street.

    OR pedestrians thinking that they can step in front of a bus and sue for injuries. I still can't believe that our buses have to run flashing lights now; who can't see a bus??

    I will guarantee that this one was another instance of two people not paying attention to where the hell they were going. TWO people, not just one. It's really not difficult to evade a car or to see it coming in the first place.

    That intersection is a bit screwy -- not the wildest I've seen, but just "off" enough that both drivers and pedestrians need to pay closer attention.
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...r&om=1&layer=t

    Pedestrian deaths are never, EVER, 100% the driver's fault. Sorry. I don't buy it.

    /end rant

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    i see people all the time walking and its like they are in thier own world......they dont look either way when walking along a main road and crossing side streets.......and this is adults.....i was taught as a kid to look both ways and whether im in a car on a bike or walking i look both ways several times to make sure the way is clear.......i rarely see others do it.......and that goes for alot of cyclists......they look straight ahead and dont try to anticipate whats commin up next.........then again alot of drivers are like that too with a cell phone or some drive thru take out

    everyone needs to look where they are going regardless where you are or what your doing or guess what......ya might get killed

  4. #4
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
    Here's what I don't like --

    Pedestrians in DC thinking that, because there's a few picoliters of ink on a piece of paper in City Hall describing a law "protecting" pedestrians, they don't have to look both ways before crossing the street.

    OR pedestrians thinking that they can step in front of a bus and sue for injuries. I still can't believe that our buses have to run flashing lights now; who can't see a bus??

    I will guarantee that this one was another instance of two people not paying attention to where the hell they were going. TWO people, not just one. It's really not difficult to evade a car or to see it coming in the first place.

    That intersection is a bit screwy -- not the wildest I've seen, but just "off" enough that both drivers and pedestrians need to pay closer attention.
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...r&om=1&layer=t

    Pedestrian deaths are never, EVER, 100% the driver's fault. Sorry. I don't buy it.

    /end rant
    Pure B.S. Cars are much faster than pedestrians and often unpredictable. They often put peds at serious risk. I frequently have close calls with cars when I'm walking, but almost never when I'm riding my bike in the street. I can tell that you do a lot more driving than walking, or you would know this.

    Accidents are usually the driver's fault. Your version is part of the autocentric myth that roads are there for cars to drive on as swiftly as they want, and to hell with anybody "who gets in my way." If there's a crosswalk with pedestrians in it, cars bear the legal responsibility to avoid them. Period.

    Story with a happy ending:
    A couple months ago I was with four other people, crossing a busy 4 lane one-way street. We were in the crosswalk, with the WALK signal in our favor. I rightfully assumed that we had the right of way, and cars turning in front of us would wait for us to cross. One driver turned right in fromt of me. I had to dance back and avoided getting hit by a few inches. I would have been seriously injured if the car had hit me, but the car would probably have suffered no damage. There happened to be a police car right behind the car. At first he did nothing. I pointed and yelled, "Go get him!" The cop flipped on his lights and pulled the JAM over. I cheered, and the many other pedestrians on the sidewalk cheered too. That was pretty cool/


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  5. #5
    Senior Member jcwitte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwd View Post

    If you kill someone any other way you get locked up, but use a car to kill a pedestrian and they try to find a way to blame the pedestrian.
    It's really not that simple. Here are some more examples of accidents that you might find interesting.....

    An elderly man is struck by a cyclist and dies. Cyclist recieves $210 fine.
    http://www.theage.com.au/news/nation...617253330.html

    Cyclist who kills pedestrian escapes jail sentence.
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/...le_157946.html

    I don't know what happened to this cyclist.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...020301735.html

    I think locking someone up for an accident does no good. It doesn't bring anyone back or change anything. Plus, the person who was responsible for the accident has to live with the guilt for the rest of their lives. That is usually far worse than any jail sentence.

  6. #6
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Pure B.S. Cars are much faster than pedestrians and often unpredictable.
    Pedestrians are often unpredictable, too. However, they can do things that no car or bike can if they're paying attention:

    Quote Originally Posted by Roody

    Story with a happy ending:
    A couple months ago I was with four other people, crossing a busy 4 lane one-way street. We were in the crosswalk, with the WALK signal in our favor. I rightfully assumed that we had the right of way, and cars turning in front of us would wait for us to cross. One driver turned right in fromt of me. I had to dance back and avoided getting hit by a few inches.
    You were paying good attention, and your health is the real happy ending to your story. The cop's presence was just a bonus.

    I can tell that you do a lot more driving than walking, or you would know this.
    Wrong; I do just as much walking as I do each of biking and driving. I ride the subway a little less than any of those three.

    Accidents are usually the driver's fault.
    Accidents are almost always the fault of TWO people screwing up. If one of those two people is paying enough attention, they'll almost always be able to account for the other lunatic and prevent the accident from happening at all.

    As far as whether they're the driver's fault -- they can't see as well, they can't hear as clearly, and they can't stop as quickly as a pedestrian, even if they're driving defensively, going the speed limit, and paying as much attention as possible. Never mind the ones that are high, drunk, texting on their phones, gnawing on a Big Mac, yelling at their kids, gossiping with their teenybopper friends, or God-knows-what-else. Simply put, even the best drivers are at a handicap.

    Your version is part of the autocentric myth that roads are there for cars to drive on as swiftly as they want, and to hell with anybody "who gets in my way." If there's a crosswalk with pedestrians in it, cars bear the legal responsibility to avoid them. Period.
    Legal responsibility doesn't save anyone from the idiocy of someone else. The courts will decide, but the courts can't give you back your legs, either.

    Like I said, no written law will stand in the way of getting hurt or killed by someone who's being a dumbass. I agree that it's an autocentric way of thinking -- but you can't ignore that cars are faster, more dangerous, and less nimble than pedestrians, and that nobody this side of Superman can stand in front of a car and stop it with their bare hands.

    Drivers are idiots. Make that assumption and walking becomes a lot safer. Less worry-free, but safer, and more likely to get you home safely -- and that's really what counts.
    Last edited by BarracksSi; 12-03-07 at 05:40 PM.

  7. #7
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    BTW, sorry for all the edits & additions in my second post; I just kept thinking of things to say more clearly.

  8. #8
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post
    Pedestrian deaths are never, EVER, 100% the driver's fault. Sorry. I don't buy it.
    Never say "never, EVER".

    Car Plows Into Crowded Farmers Market


  9. #9
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
    Never say "never, EVER".

    Car Plows Into Crowded Farmers Market
    I don't include freak accidents like that one (as much as I would like to use them as examples of tighter driver licensing rules). I'm talking about the usual one-on-one accidents.

  10. #10
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarracksSi View Post

    Accidents are almost always the fault of TWO people screwing up. If one of those two people is paying enough attention, they'll almost always be able to account for the other lunatic and prevent the accident from happening at all.

    As far as whether they're the driver's fault -- they can't see as well, they can't hear as clearly, and they can't stop as quickly as a pedestrian, even if they're driving defensively, going the speed limit, and paying as much attention as possible. Never mind the ones that are high, drunk, texting on their phones, gnawing on a Big Mac, yelling at their kids, gossiping with their teenybopper friends, or God-knows-what-else. Simply put, even the best drivers are at a handicap.

    Legal responsibility doesn't save anyone from the idiocy of someone else. The courts will decide, but the courts can't give you back your legs, either.

    Like I said, no written law will stand in the way of getting hurt or killed by someone who's being a dumbass. I agree that it's an autocentric way of thinking -- but you can't ignore that cars are faster, more dangerous, and less nimble than pedestrians, and that nobody this side of Superman can stand in front of a car and stop it with their bare hands.

    Drivers are idiots. Make that assumption and walking becomes a lot safer. Less worry-free, but safer, and more likely to get you home safely -- and that's really what counts
    .
    In your first post you said that drivers are never responsible for ped accidents, now you've backed a far piece away from that position, which is good. If a driver can't see, hear or stop well enough to avoid hitting ANY pedestrian, then he/she is simply driving too carelessly for the prevailing conditions. If it's too foggy to see a ped, then the driver must slow down, maybe slow down to walking speed if necessary. If the radio's too loud to hear a ped scream "Look out!" then turn down the radio. If the passengers are distracting the driver, then pull over and tell them to STFU. That's why I say it's usually the drivers fault. As the most powerful person in the situation, he/she bears more of the responsibility for getting everybody home safely. Another consideration is that a disproportionate number of peds are handicapped in some way, especially the elderly. Their perceptions and reactions aren't very good. They often give up their own licenses because they're no longer good drivers, and that's why they're walking.

    I agree that peds do have some responsibilities too. You know, all that stuff we learned in kindergarten, or should have. And it bothers me when I see peds flaunting the safety laws. (Especially teens who saunter so slowly across the busy street, practically daring cars and bikes to hit them.)


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  11. #11
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
    Never say "never, EVER".

    Car Plows Into Crowded Farmers Market
    Did anybody see the takeoff that South Park did on this tragedy? It was wrong....but very funny.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  12. #12
    Bike ≠ Car ≠ Ped. BarracksSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    In your first post you said that drivers are never responsible for ped accidents, now you've backed a far piece away from that position, which is good. If a driver can't see, hear or stop well enough to avoid hitting ANY pedestrian, then he/she is simply driving too carelessly for the prevailing conditions.
    In my first post I said that drivers are never 100% responsible, that the pedestrians also had to mess up somehow in order to put themselves at risk in the first place.

    The radio doesn't have to be loud, there doesn't have to be any rain, and there don't have to be any other distractions in the car to further impair the driver. Drivers are "cagers", right? It's just not as easy to peer out from a cage.

    I've said elsewhere to never forget what it's like to be a cager. "Understand the enemy," as they say.

    Safest thing to do is to treat the street as dangerous as it really is.

    I agree that peds do have some responsibilities too. You know, all that stuff we learned in kindergarten, or should have. And it bothers me when I see peds flaunting the safety laws. (Especially teens who saunter so slowly across the busy street, practically daring cars and bikes to hit them.)
    That's really an embarrassment, too. They're basically flaunting their legal rights just to cause aggravation to everyone else. So much for treating children without discipline (but that's another rant ).

  13. #13
    gwd
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    Gee, in the story I was more impressed with the "unnecessary appendage" description of the car. My comment about the driver not being charged was more to show that the autocentric attitude is alive and well. Roody's comments are pretty much in line with the way I see it. His good outcome story illustrates my point. When I worked in the suburbs, every day I would see people in cars threaten people in crosswalks with bodily harm if the people in the crosswalks didn't jump out of their way. I've seen them do this in front of police and the virginia cops do nothing. If I ran down the street with a baseball bat swinging it at people to get them out of my way it would be no different than what the car drivers do with their cars. The last time I saw a ped get hit with a car the driver used the busy crosswalk to get to his car, got in and drove backward without looking right into the same busy crosswalk and struck a pedestrian. The driver opened his door stood up halfway out of his car and shouted "Sorry!" then drove off. The pedestrian was only bruised but if the pedestrian hadn't jumped up and had been a frail older person it could have been much worse. I think it is wrong that someone whacking the ped in the legs with a baseball bat would be a criminal but do the same damage with a car and the person is at worst just a jerk and the pedestrian is somehow at fault for not being more nimble.

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