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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 12-11-07, 09:01 PM   #1
TonyCtattoo
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is it possible

i been thinking on the whole living without fossil fuels thing a while and im curious what people think will happen when theres no planes trains semis or boats (excluding sailboats)

there will be no more phones no more computers no ordering online i think theres going to be many who cannot cope and simply cant cope i would exspect 1/3 to 2/3s of the population at least to die off within the first few years . i can see in my mind the big cities turning into concrete graveyards where bandits and theives prey on people who wander off the major paths

farmers and doctors will once again outrank lawyers and moviestars . biycles will no longer be manufactured nor will the lubricants to keep them running (hope everyone likes horses)

do you guys think its possible for humanity to keep on living as a civilized race after this major disaster or do you think we will revert back to acting like savages with war torn tribes?
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Old 12-11-07, 11:26 PM   #2
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your predictions will not come about. Sorry to disappoint you.

Fossil fuels are not going to run out overnight... we will adjust and continue on.... the only real question is how hard the transition is going to be.

We already have the technologies needed for the transition... now, how fast can we deploy them, and how much devastation is there going to be in the countries that don't have the same access to technology that we do? They're the ones that are really going to be in trouble.
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Old 12-12-07, 12:05 AM   #3
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Alternate chemistries exist to product plastic without petroleum. They just cost more.

Last night I listened to a radio show with a oil field Baptist preacher who at one time had executive rank in the Atlantic Richfield oil company. He witnessed the discovery of the largest oil deposit ever found in the USA. It is at Gull Island off the Alaskan coast. At the time, the president of the company was there and told him that the field of oil they discovered contained more oil than all of Saudi Arabia.

The next day the find was classified. He was told to never tell anyone about it. That was in the early '70's. In the years since that incident he has quit working for the oil companies. Just a couple of years ago he found out from an oil company executive he previously knew that the Gull Island oil field would remain secret until the price of oil reaches $150.00 per barrel.

The guy's name is Lindsey Williams and he wrote the book "The Energy Non-Crisis". www.lwoil.com. He tells the whole story in his book. He explains how oil companies control the flow of oil and that there is enough easy to get to high quality crude within the USA borders to last hundreds of years.

Please don't argue with me about his statements. He was in the boardrooms with the executives, not me. He is reporting what he learned while sitting in the board meetings with the most powerful people in the world.
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Old 12-12-07, 05:11 AM   #4
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Alternate chemistries exist to product plastic without petroleum. They just cost more.

Last night I listened to a radio show with a oil field Baptist preacher who at one time had executive rank in the Atlantic Richfield oil company. He witnessed the discovery of the largest oil deposit ever found in the USA. It is at Gull Island off the Alaskan coast. At the time, the president of the company was there and told him that the field of oil they discovered contained more oil than all of Saudi Arabia.

The next day the find was classified. He was told to never tell anyone about it. That was in the early '70's. In the years since that incident he has quit working for the oil companies. Just a couple of years ago he found out from an oil company executive he previously knew that the Gull Island oil field would remain secret until the price of oil reaches $150.00 per barrel.

The guy's name is Lindsey Williams and he wrote the book "The Energy Non-Crisis". www.lwoil.com. He tells the whole story in his book. He explains how oil companies control the flow of oil and that there is enough easy to get to high quality crude within the USA borders to last hundreds of years.

Please don't argue with me about his statements. He was in the boardrooms with the executives, not me. He is reporting what he learned while sitting in the board meetings with the most powerful people in the world.
Well I was there when we discovered a mistake in the calculations and determined the field isn't nearly as large as projected. Or I could be lying. Or the "oil company executive" could be lying. Please don't believe everything you hear.
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Old 12-12-07, 06:56 AM   #5
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do you guys think its possible for humanity to keep on living as a civilized race after this major disaster
That's what people are thinking about when they talk about sustainability. I think there is probably a comfortable, civilized and sustainable way of life within the reach of human kind. I doubt it will be six billion people all totally dependent on personal cars, though.
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Old 12-12-07, 07:10 AM   #6
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My understanding is that there will be no oil shortage like you describe. Because, in fact, there is a lot of oil still available. The problem with it is the ecological (and, I suppose, economic) cost of recovering it. It is even possible that you will still be able to drive an SUV as many coastal areas start to flood.

However, there is always the hope that we can achieve a more sustainable balance in our lives.

Most certainly you will see more people walking in the streets... is that a disaster?
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Old 12-12-07, 07:15 AM   #7
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It is even possible that you will still be able to drive an SUV as many coastal areas start to flood.
People in manhattan are rude anyway, let em sink.

(kidding)
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Old 12-12-07, 07:34 AM   #8
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Oil won't run out in our lifetime. It may get very expensive, maybe expensive enough to be cost prohibitive for average people, but it will be around long after we are gone. If it gets to the point that it is too expensive to use as a fuel, there are lots of other options that could be brought on line quickly if the money was right.
Oil for lubes, greases so forth- synthetics, and vegatable based stuff is already on the market, even though oil based is still available. So no problem there either.
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Old 12-12-07, 09:49 AM   #9
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i been thinking ...
do you guys think its possible for humanity to keep on living as a civilized race after this major disaster or do you think we will revert back to acting like savages with war torn tribes?
The question would be more interesting if the phrases in bold were swapped.
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Old 12-12-07, 09:57 AM   #10
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the only thing that will stop us is:

1)
some giant rock or another planet whipping by earth so close it rips the atmosphere off, or creates
huge electrical discharges and tears the planet to shreds

2) big rock hitting us

3) a huge intergalactic dust storm/meteor shower pours a bazillion micrometeorites into the atmosphere and causes so much dust and smoke from all the burning particles

4) a huge burp from the sun

5) a super volcano


if the above doesn't happen we'll be around with our technology forever. we can always tap into energy somehow somewhere.
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Old 12-12-07, 09:58 AM   #11
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The question would be more interesting if the phrases in bold were swapped.
Scout wins at the internets.
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Old 12-12-07, 11:24 AM   #12
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The question would be more interesting if the phrases in bold were swapped.
Damn, you are smart!
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Old 12-12-07, 12:55 PM   #13
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The question would be more interesting if the phrases in bold were swapped.
Right on!

I think it's naive to blame the technology when the real problem is our own greed and inability to plan ahead. (A Baptist minister had that on his website, so it must be true! )
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Old 12-12-07, 01:18 PM   #14
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lol . guys they weren't really predictions im not a biologist or a sociologist im an artist i was just interested in seeing what you guys were thinking my "guess" was more a shot in the dark. but effectively achieved its purpose. and i don't particularly want to see oil go im slightly accustomed to being able to bike over to the local Italian restaurant and enjoy the great food that hundreds of SUV driving customers make them able to afford to provide.


and too that one guy . i have no intentions of arguing over what the ceo told that other guy that told the tv that told you said , but ill say you probably shouldn't quote it as gospel because its known how executives and preachers are equally apt to "bending the truth"
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Old 12-12-07, 01:21 PM   #15
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The question would be more interesting if the phrases in bold were swapped.
noted.
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Old 12-12-07, 01:23 PM   #16
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the only thing that will stop us is:

1)
some giant rock or another planet whipping by earth so close it rips the atmosphere off, or creates
huge electrical discharges and tears the planet to shreds

2) big rock hitting us

3) a huge intergalactic dust storm/meteor shower pours a bazillion micrometeorites into the atmosphere and causes so much dust and smoke from all the burning particles

4) a huge burp from the sun

5) a super volcano


if the above doesn't happen we'll be around with our technology forever. we can always tap into energy somehow somewhere.

err at some point the sun will run out of fuel (hydrogen) and at that point will turn into a red dwarf and either go out or supernova either way the suns lifetime is limited making our equally limited unless we find another planet

not saying this is going to happen for another billion years or more but still its something that will eventually happen
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Old 12-12-07, 01:33 PM   #17
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[QUOTE=edzo;5793889]the only thing that will stop us is:
QUOTE]
6) We could destroy all or nearly all life on earth with our fantastic technology by mistake or through war. Nuclear, Germ etc.

It it happens I wanna be here to see it. Not tommorow hopefully but maybe a few decades from now. I wanna make sure I have an exit plan though I'd rather die on my own terms.

i can see in my mind the big cities turning into concrete graveyards where bandits and theives prey on people who wander off the major paths You should try detroit I hear it is already like that
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Old 12-12-07, 04:52 PM   #18
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there will be no more phones no more computers no ordering online i think theres going to be many who cannot cope and simply cant cope i would exspect 1/3 to 2/3s of the population at least to die off within the first few years . i can see in my mind the big cities turning into concrete graveyards where bandits and theives prey on people who wander off the major paths
I used to read the Mighty Samson comics with their tales of N'Yark too.



But unless we have nasty nuclear war or massive disease I don't quite see that happening. We will have nuclear power and plenty of coal as well as solar.
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Old 12-12-07, 04:55 PM   #19
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err at some point the sun will run out of fuel (hydrogen) and at that point will turn into a red dwarf and either go out or supernova either way the suns lifetime is limited making our equally limited unless we find another planet

not saying this is going to happen for another billion years or more but still its something that will eventually happen
And that's why anyone who is serious about sustainable living is going to want to include space colonization into their survival strategy.
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Old 12-12-07, 05:05 PM   #20
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And that's why anyone who is serious about sustainable living is going to want to include space colonization into their survival strategy.
Or we could stop reproducing so far above the mortality rate. Just waiting until later in life to procreate would solve a large part of the problem.
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Old 12-12-07, 06:17 PM   #21
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And that's why anyone who is serious about sustainable living is going to want to include space colonization into their survival strategy.
I agree, this rock we're on will only last so long. The human race kinda hass all the eggs in one basket, ya know? one good wack from a big rock (unlikely yeah, but given enough time...) and we be goners.

I hope & suspect we'll be colonizing off-planet well before the Earth's ecology is destroyed.

Time to ride home. Be safe out there.

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Old 12-12-07, 08:07 PM   #22
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I used to read the Mighty Samson comics with their tales of N'Yark too.



But unless we have nasty nuclear war or massive disease I don't quite see that happening. We will have nuclear power and plenty of coal as well as solar.
actually i was thinking more along the lines of thunderdome
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Old 12-13-07, 03:15 AM   #23
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We already have the technologies needed for the transition... now, how fast can we deploy them, and how much devastation is there going to be in the countries that don't have the same access to technology that we do? They're the ones that are really going to be in trouble.
that's an interesting perspective ~ ?

I'd say that the Penan tribes in Borneo, who source all their food, medicine, shelter, clothing, ect from their surrounding rainforest ... won't be too affected by any lack of access to technology...

in fact, it is technology that is destroying their homes...

I can't see subsistence farmers living in the foothills of Lao being affected by a lack of access to our wonderful technology ?

...

their is a pattern here...

the peoples who have, over time, become more and more disconnected from the earth, who now rely entirely on fossil fuel for practically everything in their lives ...

the peoples who live in a society where their food travels 1000's of kms from the land to the plate, who rely on this wonderful technology (herbicides, chemical fertilizers, pesticides, heavy machinery, plastic packaging, ect, ect)

these same people that continue to consume the earths natural resources faster then they can regenerate ...

They're the ones that are really going to be in trouble.
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Old 12-13-07, 03:18 AM   #24
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what defines a civilized race ?

wearing a tie ?

washing your clothes ?

eating with your knife and fork ?


the river has its destination
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Old 12-13-07, 04:46 PM   #25
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actually i was thinking more along the lines of thunderdome
Youngster!!!
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