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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 02-24-08, 09:58 AM   #1
Roody
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"I just don't want to think about it!"

I work with a nice lady--I'll call her Kathy--who drives a huge SUV. The other day she was talking about getting a new vehicle. I asked her what kind of fuel she thought her next vehicle after this one will run on. "Because you know," I said, "this might be the last gas powered car you ever buy in your whole life."

Her answer surprised me a little: "I know that. I just don't want to think about it!"

It seems like Americans are finally getting the message that gasoline is on the endangered list. Maybe they're starting to go through the various stages of grieving. This lady sure sounds like she's in the denial stage....

How do you think the grieving process for the internal combustion engine will work itself out?




Here are the various grieving stages according to Kubler-Ross:
  • Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
  • Anger: "Why me? It's not fair."
  • Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my children graduate."
  • Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
  • Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."

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Old 02-24-08, 11:06 AM   #2
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[QUOTE=Roody;6221334]
How do you think the grieving process for the internal combustion engine will work itself out?


[QUOTE]

A US invasion of anyone who still has a lot of oil. (Our government will just claim they have weapons of mass destruction.)

I don't think it will be like a grieving process; it will be more like the desperate, violent acts of a hopeless addict prepared to do whatever it takes to get his next fix.

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Old 02-24-08, 11:15 AM   #3
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[QUOTE=bragi;6221673][QUOTE=Roody;6221334]
How do you think the grieving process for the internal combustion engine will work itself out?


Quote:

A US invasion of anyone who still has a lot of oil. (Our government will just claim they have weapons of mass destruction, or are planning to make them, or kind of wished they had some lying around.)

I don't think it will be like a grieving process; it will be more like the desperate, violent acts of a hopeless addict prepared to do whatever it takes to get his next fix.
Well from the amount of oil that is flowing from Iraq vs the billions spent...I can't see how that is a viable alternative, not to say that it won't be tried again in the future. But I really think it is part of what is dragging down the US economy. Americans are going to have to get over their love affair with oversize personal conveyances.

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Old 02-24-08, 03:09 PM   #4
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I work with a nice lady--I'll call her Kathy--who drives a huge SUV. The other day she was talking about getting a new vehicle. I asked her what kind of fuel she thought her next vehicle after this one will run on. "Because you know," I said, "this might be the last gas powered car you ever buy in your whole life."

Her answer surprised me a little: "I know that. I just don't want to think about it!"

It seems like Americans are finally getting the message that gasoline is on the endangered list. Maybe they're starting to go through the various stages of grieving. This lady sure sounds like she's in the denial stage....
Is she in denial, or is she already in the bargaining stage? Or perhaps even in the depression stage? She's not at acceptance yet, for sure.

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Old 02-24-08, 03:37 PM   #5
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Is she in denial, or is she already in the bargaining stage? Or perhaps even in the depression stage? She's not at acceptance yet, for sure.

East Hill
I think bargaining sould be something like, "Give me enough gas to keep the SUV going and I'll put in fluorescent lighting to make up for it." Or maybe buying carbon offsets?
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Old 02-24-08, 03:39 PM   #6
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Well from the amount of oil that is flowing from Iraq vs the billions spent...I can't see how that is a viable alternative, not to say that it won't be tried again in the future. But I really think it is part of what is dragging down the US economy. Americans are going to have to get over their love affair with oversize personal conveyances.

Aaron
Going to war for oil would definitely be the anger stage. "How dare they put their sand on top of our oil?"
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Old 02-24-08, 04:36 PM   #7
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I agree with bragi: America isn't grieving a loss, we're fighting an addiction.

Expect a temper-tantrum, false helplessness, deceitfulnesses to get our last fix, and some serious withdrawal.
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Old 02-24-08, 05:15 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Roody View Post

How do you think the grieving process for the internal combustion engine will work itself out?


I had a conversation a while back with one individual who was driving a rather large truck (Ford F150 or bigger...) and he confessed that he thought Bush would figure a way to open up the Alaskan oil fields.

I would regard that as the denial stage.
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Old 02-24-08, 05:19 PM   #9
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How do you think the grieving process for the internal combustion engine will work itself out?
Have you ever seen that 80's movie titled Mad Max?
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Old 02-24-08, 05:23 PM   #10
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I work with a nice lady--I'll call her Kathy--who drives a huge SUV. ...
How do you think the grieving process for the internal combustion engine will work itself out?
I don't know how she will do it, but I'd wager she's got at least thirty years to figure out how.
Who told you gasoline was on the endangered list?
GM?
The same car company who swore they'd be selling 10% electric vehicles in California by the year, uhhh, , , I think it was 2001 they said... (I cannot find a quote now)

The Wiki page says the Impact cost $80,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1#Costs

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If you really want to know when a real, actual electric car for sale will arrive, look for Honda or Toyota or Nissan to start making one. The US automakers are stuck with positively crippling labor and pension costs.
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Old 02-24-08, 05:39 PM   #11
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I don't think it will be like a grieving process; it will be more like the desperate, violent acts of a hopeless addict prepared to do whatever it takes to get his next fix.
You'll likely find this same reaction in....80?....100?....years when Middle East oil is drained and the folks there realize they're left with dry sand for resources.
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Old 02-24-08, 05:41 PM   #12
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I work with a nice lady--I'll call her Kathy--who drives a huge SUV.
Very decent of you to protect her identity. The witness protection program is overburdened as it is.
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Old 02-24-08, 05:55 PM   #13
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Very decent of you to protect her identity. The witness protection program is overburdened as it is.
Witness Protection Program Worker: When I say ``Hello Mr. Thompson`` and step on your foot like this... you just nod and smile.

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Old 02-24-08, 06:29 PM   #14
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Going to war for oil would definitely be the anger stage. "How dare they put their sand on top of our oil?"
It will either be Venezuela or West Africa. Nigeria and Angola have tons of oil.
My guess is it will be Africa. People pay such little attention to what is
going on in Africa, they'll believe whatever cover story is put out to justify it.
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Old 02-24-08, 06:30 PM   #15
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Here are the various grieving stages according to Kubler-Ross:
  • Denial: The initial stage: "It can't be happening."
  • Anger: "Why me? It's not fair."
  • Bargaining: "Just let me live to see my children graduate."
  • Depression: "I'm so sad, why bother with anything?"
  • Acceptance: "It's going to be OK."

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Old 02-24-08, 06:36 PM   #16
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A US invasion of anyone who still has a lot of oil. (Our government will just claim they have weapons of mass destruction.)

I don't think it will be like a grieving process; it will be more like the desperate, violent acts of a hopeless addict prepared to do whatever it takes to get his next fix.
I'm stocking up on detonators.
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Old 02-24-08, 06:51 PM   #17
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It will either be Venezuela or West Africa. Nigeria and Angola have tons of oil.
My guess is it will be Africa. People pay such little attention to what is
going on in Africa, they'll believe whatever cover story is put out to justify it.
I agree on Africa...I have seen interesting information from a series of sources including the retraining of the SF groups for African operations. Shortsighted IMHO I would much rather take the Danish approach and plan for a "green" future but I guess that isn't the American way

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Old 02-24-08, 06:57 PM   #18
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I had a conversation a while back with one individual who was driving a rather large truck (Ford F150 or bigger...) and he confessed that he thought Bush would figure a way to open up the Alaskan oil fields.

I would regard that as the denial stage.
Isn't that supposed to supply something like one day's worth of our oil needs?
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Old 02-24-08, 06:59 PM   #19
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Although the general public and big corporations hell-bent on status quo certainly deserve a lot of the blame for our oil addiction, I think that our "leaders", haven't done any better. Instead of putting more effort into the real problem, which is the demand side of the supply-and-demand balance, they basically ask for more oil. But what do you expect in an economy obsessed with the farce of endless growth in a finite world? What "leader" is going to tell Americans to use less?

I am convinced that fundamental changes in our economy are going to be necessary. And look, I love my country, but it's clear that we shouldn't keep carrying on the way we have been. The party's over. Time to grow up.

Though I plan on having a little celebration when gas hits $5 / gal. It's gonna be awesome.
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Old 02-24-08, 07:03 PM   #20
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It will either be Venezuela or West Africa. Nigeria and Angola have tons of oil.
My guess is it will be Africa. People pay such little attention to what is
going on in Africa, they'll believe whatever cover story is put out to justify it
.
Bush just got back from a "humanitarian mission" (wink wink) to Africa. I heard him answer a reporter's question on TV: "Yes we will be installing a military base on the continent. We just haven't decided which country it will be in." I guess that's the bargaining stage.
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Old 02-24-08, 07:16 PM   #21
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Although the general public and big corporations hell-bent on status quo certainly deserve a lot of the blame for our oil addiction, I think that our "leaders", haven't done any better. Instead of putting more effort into the real problem, which is the demand side of the supply-and-demand balance, they basically ask for more oil. But what do you expect in an economy obsessed with the farce of endless growth in a finite world? What "leader" is going to tell Americans to use less?

I am convinced that fundamental changes in our economy are going to be necessary. And look, I love my country, but it's clear that we shouldn't keep carrying on the way we have been. The party's over. Time to grow up.

Though I plan on having a little celebration when gas hits $5 / gal. It's gonna be awesome.
Yeah, sure, when the US economy collapses and food costs skyrocket due to the cost of transportation, we're all gonna have a party.
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Old 02-24-08, 07:21 PM   #22
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Yeah, sure, when the US economy collapses and food costs skyrocket due to the cost of transportation, we're all gonna have a party.
Paul Krugman touched on that subject the other day:

Don't Rerun That '70s Show

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Jimmy Carterís overall economic record was much better than most people realize ó the average economic growth rate under his administration was 3.4 percent per year, slightly higher than the growth rate under Ronald Reagan and far better than growth under either Bush.

Reagan famously asked Americans whether they were better off than they had been four years ago; the answer, actually, was yes ó most families had higher real income in 1980 than they did in 1976.

But the good economic news came in the Carter administrationís early years, while its final year was marked by rising unemployment and soaring inflation, largely caused by a surge in oil prices.
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Old 02-24-08, 07:23 PM   #23
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How do you think the grieving process for the internal combustion engine will work itself out?
It will work itself out fine. The motorist will simply trade in their gas powered F150 for the hybrid F150
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Old 02-24-08, 07:30 PM   #24
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Isn't that supposed to supply something like one day's worth of our oil needs?
Probably more like a couple year's worth of supply in Alaska. But I don't think there's much more in Africa, and I can't think of any reason besides oil why the US would want a base in sub-Saharan Africa.

One point about grieving is that it's irrational. A lot of times people spend their fortunes on quack cures because they can't accept that they're dying. America might spend fortunes and lives chasing after tiny amounts of oil.
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Old 02-24-08, 08:29 PM   #25
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I honestly think that most Americans who are in denial about this honestly expect gasoline to go back down to where it was at when Clinton was president. Won't happen.
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