15 mph speed limit
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15 mph speed limit
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nroads124.xml
Here's a good article about how some new developments in the UK are planning on bulding new towns with 15 mph speed limit. The objective is to get people out of cars and promote cycling and public transportation. Actually, it's being created to cut back emissions for global warming.
Regardless, I would love to live in a town where ALL the streets had a 15 mph speed limit. I'm sick of the 25 mph speed limit because the motorist know they can travel up to 37 mph without any fear of getting a speeding ticket. I don't consider it a global waming issue at all but a quality of life issue.
I suspect that a 15 mph speed limit will mean the cars will finally travel at 25
mph.
Don't forget to read the pro-motoring comments below the article.
Here's a good article about how some new developments in the UK are planning on bulding new towns with 15 mph speed limit. The objective is to get people out of cars and promote cycling and public transportation. Actually, it's being created to cut back emissions for global warming.
Regardless, I would love to live in a town where ALL the streets had a 15 mph speed limit. I'm sick of the 25 mph speed limit because the motorist know they can travel up to 37 mph without any fear of getting a speeding ticket. I don't consider it a global waming issue at all but a quality of life issue.
I suspect that a 15 mph speed limit will mean the cars will finally travel at 25
mph.
Don't forget to read the pro-motoring comments below the article.
#2
Two H's!!! TWO!!!!!
15 mph? Cyclists would get as many speeding tickets as motorists if the speed limit is actually enforced.
#3
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That would take all the fun out of breaking the speed limit. At 30 it's a challenge. At 15 it's a recovery ride.
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As I recall, Britain used to have laws requiring a person to walk in front of the car with a red lantern. I suspect that a 25 mph limit will have as much traction. If you want to discourage carfree living, don't toady around with such halfway measures. They would be better off studying Copenhagen.
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I thought that most of the reader comments were pretty illuminating, if somewhat depressing. It was as if a bunch of alcoholics had just been informed that they would only be allowed a single drink a day, but only in certain areas. The comments made me realize, also, that this idea will probably die long before it ever becomes reality. Personally, I'd love to live in such a community, but I agree with Artkansas that Copenhagen is probably a more realistic model.
another thought crossed my mind while reading this: If all cars were required to go no faster than 15mph, except on major freeways, you could make the engines smaller, and therefore much more efficient, thereby making them cheaper to operate and creating a lot less greenhouse gases. Cars would be more viable much longer into the future, and everyone, or at least most people, would probably be happier in the long run. Plus, almost no one would die in auto accidents.
another thought crossed my mind while reading this: If all cars were required to go no faster than 15mph, except on major freeways, you could make the engines smaller, and therefore much more efficient, thereby making them cheaper to operate and creating a lot less greenhouse gases. Cars would be more viable much longer into the future, and everyone, or at least most people, would probably be happier in the long run. Plus, almost no one would die in auto accidents.
Last edited by bragi; 03-31-08 at 11:02 PM.
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In most places all it would take would be substantial enforcement of existing traffic laws with low tolerance for speeders. When I first started driving IRIC we were "allowed" 5mph over the posted or you would get a ticket...now it appears to be much more than that!
Aaron
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This reminds me of the episode of Mr show where old folks take over the world.
"...There would be bowls of hard candy at every corner, and whether you walked or drove, you'd get to your destination at the same time..."
In all seriousness, this is a great idea for people who are interested and would probably force some kind of revolution/revolt if it was forced on those who can't (won't) comprehend life without a car.
Personally, I would love to live in such a city.
"...There would be bowls of hard candy at every corner, and whether you walked or drove, you'd get to your destination at the same time..."
In all seriousness, this is a great idea for people who are interested and would probably force some kind of revolution/revolt if it was forced on those who can't (won't) comprehend life without a car.
Personally, I would love to live in such a city.
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Interesting how all the brits are using MPH instead of KM/H. Or maybe they always did that and I just never noticed.
In regards to the story, you could see this coming from a mile away. Why? The government is dictating to people how they should act. People around the world, including very socialized countries in europe hate unnecessary govn't intrusion.
If a large private developer had done this same thing, i.e. developed communities/towns that put cars way down on the transportation list, there would be nary a peep by the motor drivers, except to say, "well I'm sure not going to live there".
It's interesting to see the push back by the british populace over a lot of the intrusive government mandates, unfortunately they all seem to revolve around the automobile (the other story was about britians vandalizing speed cameras).
In regards to the story, you could see this coming from a mile away. Why? The government is dictating to people how they should act. People around the world, including very socialized countries in europe hate unnecessary govn't intrusion.
If a large private developer had done this same thing, i.e. developed communities/towns that put cars way down on the transportation list, there would be nary a peep by the motor drivers, except to say, "well I'm sure not going to live there".
It's interesting to see the push back by the british populace over a lot of the intrusive government mandates, unfortunately they all seem to revolve around the automobile (the other story was about britians vandalizing speed cameras).
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Interesting to me is the comment section...they are the same the world over. In my local area, they have done (yet another) study on the feasibility of increased mass transit with a completion date of 2035... And of course the comments are all pretty much the same: "make it pay for itself, no public subsidy", "add more lanes to I-xxx", "we don't need no stinkin' toll roads", "all it is, is a goverment tax scheme/money grab"...ad nauseum.
My understanding is that these are PLANNED villages, no one is suggesting that ALL living areas be affected (yet ) If given an opportunity I think I would much prefer to live in a place where cars were to be reduced second class citizens.
Aaron
My understanding is that these are PLANNED villages, no one is suggesting that ALL living areas be affected (yet ) If given an opportunity I think I would much prefer to live in a place where cars were to be reduced second class citizens.
Aaron
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"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
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Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
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RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
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I've been talking about cities like that forever! All the comments I read against the article only looked at one point or another, never more than one at a time. It seemed like no one paid attention to the fact that this would be implemented in PLANNED CITIES. Most of the arguements had to do with people just not wanting to get out of their cars or couldn't think of a city with a different layout than what they are used to. The comments on this article just introduced me to a new bias. Brits are idiots.
Well, actually there were some good comments, and I like the eco city idea alot. So They're not all bad. I wish they would build a city like that in the US.
Well, actually there were some good comments, and I like the eco city idea alot. So They're not all bad. I wish they would build a city like that in the US.
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The world would be better off if there were more cars this size than the large ones. Actually it would be classified as a motorcycle in the USA since it has only three wheels.
Watch this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jgIV9ZCMnY4
When these are available all around the USA I intend to get one. I would probably opt for the hybrid model.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke1VWhZJA
Watch this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jgIV9ZCMnY4
When these are available all around the USA I intend to get one. I would probably opt for the hybrid model.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke1VWhZJA
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Road design should make faster speeds difficult.
In an urban neigbhorhood designed for pedestrians, it should be difficult for cars to travel faster than 15MPH even if the speed limit allows it.
If you make the distances between lights and stop-signs shorter; and increase the surface area devoted to bus/bike lanes, sidewalks, crosswalks, medians, plazas, etc. the cars won't have an opportunity to go much faster. Whether it's a large city or a small town, it ought to be a pain to drive. This encourages people to park their cars and walk. It also encourages public transportation and bicycling.
There are parts of our downtown that are very pedestrian-friendly, and cars generally have to stop at a light every block. Our urban residential neighborhood is also very pedestrian-friendly, but there aren't enough stop signs to keep cars from travelling fast. Our street is long as straight. Even though the speed limit is 25, cars regularly travel 40MPH or faster... despite the fact that there is an elementary school in the neighborhood. We are considering a petition for more stop signs, or perhaps some speed humps.
If you make the distances between lights and stop-signs shorter; and increase the surface area devoted to bus/bike lanes, sidewalks, crosswalks, medians, plazas, etc. the cars won't have an opportunity to go much faster. Whether it's a large city or a small town, it ought to be a pain to drive. This encourages people to park their cars and walk. It also encourages public transportation and bicycling.
There are parts of our downtown that are very pedestrian-friendly, and cars generally have to stop at a light every block. Our urban residential neighborhood is also very pedestrian-friendly, but there aren't enough stop signs to keep cars from travelling fast. Our street is long as straight. Even though the speed limit is 25, cars regularly travel 40MPH or faster... despite the fact that there is an elementary school in the neighborhood. We are considering a petition for more stop signs, or perhaps some speed humps.
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The world would be better off if there were more cars this size than the large ones. Actually it would be classified as a motorcycle in the USA since it has only three wheels.
Watch this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jgIV9ZCMnY4
When these are available all around the USA I intend to get one. I would probably opt for the hybrid model.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke1VWhZJA
Watch this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jgIV9ZCMnY4
When these are available all around the USA I intend to get one. I would probably opt for the hybrid model.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke1VWhZJA
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The world would be better off if there were more cars this size than the large ones. Actually it would be classified as a motorcycle in the USA since it has only three wheels.
Watch this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jgIV9ZCMnY4
When these are available all around the USA I intend to get one. I would probably opt for the hybrid model.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke1VWhZJA
Watch this: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jgIV9ZCMnY4
When these are available all around the USA I intend to get one. I would probably opt for the hybrid model.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke1VWhZJA
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It's always been my belief that if you lower speeds, you reduce traffic congestion.
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In an urban neigbhorhood designed for pedestrians, it should be difficult for cars to travel faster than 15MPH even if the speed limit allows it.
If you make the distances between lights and stop-signs shorter; and increase the surface area devoted to bus/bike lanes, sidewalks, crosswalks, medians, plazas, etc. the cars won't have an opportunity to go much faster. Whether it's a large city or a small town, it ought to be a pain to drive. This encourages people to park their cars and walk. It also encourages public transportation and bicycling.
There are parts of our downtown that are very pedestrian-friendly, and cars generally have to stop at a light every block. Our urban residential neighborhood is also very pedestrian-friendly, but there aren't enough stop signs to keep cars from travelling fast. Our street is long as straight. Even though the speed limit is 25, cars regularly travel 40MPH or faster... despite the fact that there is an elementary school in the neighborhood. We are considering a petition for more stop signs, or perhaps some speed humps.
If you make the distances between lights and stop-signs shorter; and increase the surface area devoted to bus/bike lanes, sidewalks, crosswalks, medians, plazas, etc. the cars won't have an opportunity to go much faster. Whether it's a large city or a small town, it ought to be a pain to drive. This encourages people to park their cars and walk. It also encourages public transportation and bicycling.
There are parts of our downtown that are very pedestrian-friendly, and cars generally have to stop at a light every block. Our urban residential neighborhood is also very pedestrian-friendly, but there aren't enough stop signs to keep cars from travelling fast. Our street is long as straight. Even though the speed limit is 25, cars regularly travel 40MPH or faster... despite the fact that there is an elementary school in the neighborhood. We are considering a petition for more stop signs, or perhaps some speed humps.
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#19
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If you make it unpleasant for people to get around, of *course* they'll go elsewhere.
If Madison planned to put in speed bumps and medians to slow traffic downtown, I'd get very upset. Those things are a *real* hazard on a bike, especially if you've got a heavy load or it's wet out. I'm much safer on a smooth, well maintained road! It would be much more useful to do things like swap parking meter posts from a single car, single bike design to a 1 car 2 bike design. Coming up with a way to keep motor scooters out of bike racks would also be nice. Sweeping public parking for abandoned vehicles would also help - cars get checked regularly since they pay, but sometimes a bike rack may be clogged with abandoned bikes.
At 15mph, many sorts of cars get very poor gas mileage. Their engines and fuel injection systems tend to hit optimum function at about 45mph. Most of Madison's downtown is posted at 25 (2 lanes) or 35 mph (4 lanes + turn lane). Trying to keep car speeds lower would drop air quality and would not improve matters for anyone. I *would* like to see some more speed enforcement on the higher speed routes. I've done enough driving to know that the 35mph routes are mostly driven at 40-55mph. Good for air quality, and very bad for stopping distance. The speeding habit makes it harder on the city bus drivers, so that's another reason to not be a fan.
If Madison planned to put in speed bumps and medians to slow traffic downtown, I'd get very upset. Those things are a *real* hazard on a bike, especially if you've got a heavy load or it's wet out. I'm much safer on a smooth, well maintained road! It would be much more useful to do things like swap parking meter posts from a single car, single bike design to a 1 car 2 bike design. Coming up with a way to keep motor scooters out of bike racks would also be nice. Sweeping public parking for abandoned vehicles would also help - cars get checked regularly since they pay, but sometimes a bike rack may be clogged with abandoned bikes.
At 15mph, many sorts of cars get very poor gas mileage. Their engines and fuel injection systems tend to hit optimum function at about 45mph. Most of Madison's downtown is posted at 25 (2 lanes) or 35 mph (4 lanes + turn lane). Trying to keep car speeds lower would drop air quality and would not improve matters for anyone. I *would* like to see some more speed enforcement on the higher speed routes. I've done enough driving to know that the 35mph routes are mostly driven at 40-55mph. Good for air quality, and very bad for stopping distance. The speeding habit makes it harder on the city bus drivers, so that's another reason to not be a fan.
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I guess I should never underestimate how lazy people can be. If the shopping/business district is designed well enough, and offers an attractive place for walking and the shops/resturants/services people are willing to be a bit inconvenienced for it often works. I've seen a number of areas like this and the most successful ones had a giant ugly parking garage! I guess that's what it takes to get people to park their cars and walk... even if they drove 15 miles to get to a place where they are only going to walk a few blocks.
When I lived in Washington, DC I would sometimes talk to people outside of DC who would say stuff like, "I went there once and hated it. I've never been anywhere that was so difficult and confusing to drive around." Whenever someone asked us for advice before visiting DC we would tell them to ditch their car in a garage or lot somewhere (or don't rent one if they are arriving by plane or train) and then take the Metro into town.
Sean
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Making things "unpleasant" isn't really the goal.
If Madison planned to put in speed bumps and medians to slow traffic downtown, I'd get very upset. Those things are a *real* hazard on a bike, especially if you've got a heavy load or it's wet out.
One thing to note: Most places I'm thinking of that have low speed zones (or even zones where cars aren't allowed) also have a few major streets with higher speeds close by. These arteries provide faster routes for busses, bicycles, and cars. Many such places also have multi-use paths where bicycles can cruise without so many stop signs.
The real goal here is mixed zoning so neighborhoods can provide residents and visitors with basic services. One of the reasons we are so addicted to cars is because American cities and towns became too segmented into homogenous zoning areas. Houses are one direction, businesses are another direction, schools are way over there, and hospitals are out that other way. In neighborhoods that offer residents more services close by, car trips are reduced because other options exist. Often these neigbhorhoods become less car-friendly because the focus is more on pedestrians, bicycles, and public transportation.
Sean
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My general observation on the pedestrianization of any given town is based on the existing population and their willingness to adapt. I know that some of it is socioeconomic and suspect the rest to be cultural. Too many people are hung up on going to a chain store/restaurant/coffee shop/whatever that advertises heavily, if you don't have those it is going to be an uphill battle for the most part. I am working in a decent sized metro area and stay in a hotel in one of the smaller outlying "bedroom" communities. On more than one occasion we decided to go out to eat, all of the big name chains were packed and had wait times, drove right by those to the local owned restaurant downtown, it was much calmer, no wait and the food was excellent. I make a it a point to frequent local owned businesses as much as possible.
Aaron
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ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#23
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If you make it unpleasant for people to get around, of *course* they'll go elsewhere.
If Madison planned to put in speed bumps and medians to slow traffic downtown, I'd get very upset. Those things are a *real* hazard on a bike, especially if you've got a heavy load or it's wet out. I'm much safer on a smooth, well maintained road!
If Madison planned to put in speed bumps and medians to slow traffic downtown, I'd get very upset. Those things are a *real* hazard on a bike, especially if you've got a heavy load or it's wet out. I'm much safer on a smooth, well maintained road!
I have done these with heavy loads, in rain, in snow and ice (though generally slower), and they have not been a problem.
These speed bumps are actually reffered to as 'speed humps', and I would be happy to see more of them - especially if we could replace some 4 way stops with 2 way stops with speed humps on the through streets.
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There were alot of naive comments. Global warming not something that is human caused but the opposite is true? Whatever, dude. I think there is a matter of natural occurrences of the warming/cooling cycle, but since the industrial revolution, there's not a doubt that Earth has warmed.
I personally think that everyone should have their cars taken away, be hit on the head with a roll of quarters and be given a bike...because people are lazy!
I don't really think that, but the US especially, overall, has the wrong attitude and needs to change...but I don't forsee it happening. Cars aren't going away, I'm afraid. It's especially mind boggling when people choose to work or live a long ways away from where they work/live. WHY?!
Oh well, I'm just laughing at everyone who is car reliant right now because they're throwing away their money on gas.
I personally think that everyone should have their cars taken away, be hit on the head with a roll of quarters and be given a bike...because people are lazy!
I don't really think that, but the US especially, overall, has the wrong attitude and needs to change...but I don't forsee it happening. Cars aren't going away, I'm afraid. It's especially mind boggling when people choose to work or live a long ways away from where they work/live. WHY?!
Oh well, I'm just laughing at everyone who is car reliant right now because they're throwing away their money on gas.