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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 04-09-08, 10:06 AM   #1
Nightshade
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Is $4 a gallon gas enough??

Is $4 a gallon enough to get people to drive less or use
mass transit or bicycles more????

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/..._ge/gas_demand

Gov't says gas prices could hit $4
By JOHN WILEN, AP Business Writer
Tue Apr 8, 11:15 AM ET
NEW YORK - Retail gas prices could climb as high as $4 a gallon this summer, but prices at such lofty levels will make many Americans think twice about hitting the road this summer, the Energy Department said Tuesday.

High prices and a weak economy are expected to cut demand for gasoline by about 0.4 percent during the peak summer driving season, the department's Energy Information Administration said in a monthly report on petroleum supplies and demand. Overall consumption of petroleum products will drop by 90,000 barrels a day this year. Previously, the EIA had projected petroleum consumption would rise by 40,000 barrels a day.

Average monthly gas prices will peak around $3.60 a gallon in June, the EIA said. However, prices could rise much higher than that at times.

"It is important to note ... that even if the national average monthly gasoline price peaks around $3.60 per gallon this summer, it is possible that prices at some point will cross the $4 per gallon threshold," the EIA said.
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Old 04-09-08, 10:23 AM   #2
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Where I live gas for 87 is already over $3.60 a gallon. My wife and I were looking at our finances last night. We are avg. $250 a month is gas, but $1000 in food for the two of us. I guess either way it is fuel costs.
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Old 04-09-08, 10:36 AM   #3
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Is $5 for a pack of cigarettes enough to get smokers to quit?

I think it has to reach a point where the choice is drive or eat before we c a major change in urban traffic. It does seem to be having an effect of the type of vehicles chosen. The death of the 8000 lb SUV has to be a good thing.
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Old 04-09-08, 11:09 AM   #4
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I think it has been amply demonstrated that Americans will spend, spend, spend even though they no ability to spend, through various forms of debt financing. Who knows how many billions of dollars have actually gotten sloshed over from home equity to fuel, or from credit card debt to fuel. Even before the recession began, we had a negative savings rate, first time since the Great Depression.

The only way this will stop is when

1. the lines of credit disappear
2. you cannot find physical supplies of fuel to buy, at any price

Both of these future scenarios are on their way. And I will be overjoyed when those dangerous pieces of hardware sit and rust in driveways.
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Old 04-09-08, 11:14 AM   #5
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Old 04-09-08, 11:52 AM   #6
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Where I live gas for 87 is already over $3.60 a gallon. My wife and I were looking at our finances last night. We are avg. $250 a month is gas, but $1000 in food for the two of us. I guess either way it is fuel costs.
Gas is $3.55 by me, so we're about in the same cost of living range I'd suppose. What the heck are you eating that costs $1000/month to feed 2 people?
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Old 04-09-08, 11:53 AM   #7
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I don't know, but I do know it makes me re-think my eating/shopping habits since it's causing the price of produce to go up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tightwad View Post
Is $4 a gallon enough to get people to drive less or use
mass transit or bicycles more????

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/..._ge/gas_demand

Gov't says gas prices could hit $4
By JOHN WILEN, AP Business Writer
Tue Apr 8, 11:15 AM ET
NEW YORK - Retail gas prices could climb as high as $4 a gallon this summer, but prices at such lofty levels will make many Americans think twice about hitting the road this summer, the Energy Department said Tuesday.

High prices and a weak economy are expected to cut demand for gasoline by about 0.4 percent during the peak summer driving season, the department's Energy Information Administration said in a monthly report on petroleum supplies and demand. Overall consumption of petroleum products will drop by 90,000 barrels a day this year. Previously, the EIA had projected petroleum consumption would rise by 40,000 barrels a day.

Average monthly gas prices will peak around $3.60 a gallon in June, the EIA said. However, prices could rise much higher than that at times.

"It is important to note ... that even if the national average monthly gasoline price peaks around $3.60 per gallon this summer, it is possible that prices at some point will cross the $4 per gallon threshold," the EIA said.
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Old 04-09-08, 11:56 AM   #8
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No,
I really believe it is out of the mindset of most people in our society to live without a automobile. The view/image of a "successful person" in my area of the country is one with an automobile. Oil will become a status symbol in this country. This country was built for the automobile. The autombile industry is an industry that is in bed with the oil industry(Hotdogs & Buns). They will try every trick in the book to make us believe we need their products and their grasp won't loosen on there customers. They will improve MPG when they see a reason too(the customer believes life can't function without their product) Another words they have their customer's hands tied behind their backs until they choose to break free. Their customers will simply give up other products in life including good food just to fill up the tank. Making our economic situation worse.
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Old 04-09-08, 12:01 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by redden View Post
Is $5 for a pack of cigarettes enough to get smokers to quit?

I think it has to reach a point where the choice is drive or eat before we c a major change in urban traffic. It does seem to be having an effect of the type of vehicles chosen.
The death of the 8000 lb SUV has to be a good thing.
Where is that happening?

All I see round these parts (NY) are more and more audacious and large SUV's. The shinier wheels the better

and no, $4 gas isn't anything. I really think It would have to get to $10 or so to substantially impact driving habits. and at $10/gal, the economy would be shot.
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Old 04-09-08, 12:07 PM   #10
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i don't see any difference, except more complaining. same fast, aggressive, large truck and SUV traffic.
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Old 04-09-08, 12:29 PM   #11
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No, $4/gal is cheap cheap cheap. They've been paying that much in Europe for ages. As the price goes up, there will be a tipping point; but I doubt we'll see a big change at $4, $5, even $8.
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Old 04-09-08, 12:32 PM   #12
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I still get infuriated when I see people driving their hummers around. It's like, they're spitting in everyone's face, "I've got the money to drive this POS, and I'm going to flaunt it." I often flip the bird at people driving around in their big stupid SUVs...damn morons.

Let the gas prices go up, I don't have a car, doesn't bother me.
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Old 04-09-08, 12:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by velocycling View Post
Where I live gas for 87 is already over $3.60 a gallon. My wife and I were looking at our finances last night. We are avg. $250 a month is gas, but $1000 in food for the two of us. I guess either way it is fuel costs.
My wife and I spend $280.00 per month on groceries. I have no idea what it is that you are eating or where you are buying it. That must include eating out...right?
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Old 04-09-08, 01:26 PM   #14
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Nope...

But I have started to see the increase in various grocery items. It is NOT stressing my budget at all, we saw it coming and sort of planned for it.

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Old 04-09-08, 01:26 PM   #15
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What the heck are you eating that costs $1000/month to feed 2 people?
+1 WTF?

As for making the switch to mass transit or cycling, most people have grown up geared to drive their cars for everything and will make sacrifices in other aspects of life long before giving up driving. IMHO two major factors in this are the physical environment we live in, which is carcentric, and the fact the 85% of the country has limited or NO access to mass transit. Those who live in metropolitan areas take the idea of widely accessable mass transit for granted along with the ability to procure a wide variety of goods in a realitively small geographic area. The development pattern of this country is such that it is very difficult for most people to be without a motorized vehicle of one form or another. That said there is the opportunity for people to be efficient with their car trips and to reduce the milage they travel but it will take a major cultural shift.
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Old 04-09-08, 01:38 PM   #16
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Is $4 a gallon enough to get people to drive less or use
mass transit or bicycles more????
Nope.

1) People still need to get places which are difficult to get to by bicycle and there isn't a good alternate transportation system in place - i.e. trains, busses, etc. in most areas of North America.

2) Even $4.00/gallon (or the predicted $1.40/litre here in Alberta) is less expensive than moving to and living in some cities.


For example ...

I live very inexpensively in a city 150 kms away from the University I attend. Next semester I will be attending that University 3 times a week, but I work on weekends in the city where I live so that I can afford tuition etc..

I have two options:

-- I could commute the 300 kms a day for a total of $420/month in fuel costs (calculated at $1.40/litre).

or

-- I could rent a room in the city for a monthly rate of $425 (an incredibly inexpensive price for a room in this city) and pay $140/month in fuel to get back out to my job on weekends for a total of $565/month.

I'll be commuting ... driving 3 times a week (900 kms a week) saves me $145 a month.


----------------------------------

BTW - right now, I'm spending $20/week on groceries, but there is just me.
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Old 04-09-08, 01:44 PM   #17
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I still get infuriated when I see people driving their hummers around. It's like, they're spitting in everyone's face, "I've got the money to drive this POS, and I'm going to flaunt it." I often flip the bird at people driving around in their big stupid SUVs...damn morons.

Let the gas prices go up, I don't have a car, doesn't bother me.
wow, why does it bother you so much? Do you honestly think these people make a conscious effort to piss you off by buying a hummer?

As far as I know people don't buy cars to piss other people off. They buy them because they are fun to drive, or relevant for their situation in life.

You also don't know their situation. Why get mad a hummer driver than maybe drives once a week, three blocks to church on sunday, yet you have a warm place in your heart for the prius driver that piles up 50k miles a year for whatever reason?

I have an SUV that I barely drive. However when I do it isn't to go around and make people angry. It's usually to haul my bikes somewhere, or fill it with camping gear, or building supplies to remodel my house, etc. Heck, sometimes I even drive it when it's empty!

Would I be better off with a brand new prius? Hell no. My SUV is paid off. If I bought a prius, I would be stuck with a $500 a month payment, and not much in terms of gas savings (for the amount I drive) and absolutely no room to haul anything around.
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Old 04-09-08, 01:55 PM   #18
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The thing that makes me mad about SUVs, and the Hummer in particular, is that I have to pay to subsidize the waste of the folks that drive them. The same as I have to pay for the extra capacity needed to allow all of my neighbors to water their lawns all summer. Drive an SUV if you like, but please pay the extra costs yourself.
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Old 04-09-08, 01:59 PM   #19
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The thing that makes me mad about SUVs, and the Hummer in particular, is that I have to pay to subsidize the waste of the folks that drive them. The same as I have to pay for the extra capacity needed to allow all of my neighbors to water their lawns all summer. Drive an SUV if you like, but please pay the extra costs yourself.
What waste?
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Old 04-09-08, 02:07 PM   #20
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I still get infuriated when I see people driving their hummers around. It's like, they're spitting in everyone's face, "I've got the money to drive this POS, and I'm going to flaunt it." I often flip the bird at people driving around in their big stupid SUVs...damn morons.

Let the gas prices go up, I don't have a car, doesn't bother me.
I do hope you're not serious.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:08 PM   #21
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wow, why does it bother you so much? Do you honestly think these people make a conscious effort to piss you off by buying a hummer?

As far as I know people don't buy cars to piss other people off. They buy them because they are fun to drive, or relevant for their situation in life.

You also don't know their situation. Why get mad a hummer driver than maybe drives once a week, three blocks to church on sunday, yet you have a warm place in your heart for the prius driver that piles up 50k miles a year for whatever reason?

I have an SUV that I barely drive. However when I do it isn't to go around and make people angry. It's usually to haul my bikes somewhere, or fill it with camping gear, or building supplies to remodel my house, etc. Heck, sometimes I even drive it when it's empty!

Would I be better off with a brand new prius? Hell no. My SUV is paid off. If I bought a prius, I would be stuck with a $500 a month payment, and not much in terms of gas savings (for the amount I drive) and absolutely no room to haul anything around.

Wow, that is really great.
I realize they don't drive them to deliberately make people mad. It's just stupid; Hummers get 8-10 miles per gallon? In a supposed oil shortage where gas prices are skyrocketing and global warming becoming increasingly more of a problem, these people should be "hit on the back of the head with a roll of quarters in a sock, wake up in Iraq, and told to get the oil themselves." -Patton Oswalt

And i never said I had a warm place in my heart for the prius driver...I don't have much of a warm place in my heart for any cars at this time, until we find the solution for a replacement for gasoline and oil that is healthy for the environment. Other than that, I think cars are a great idea for certain things.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:09 PM   #22
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What waste?
Highways and other infrastructure, oil wars, free parking... there is a ton of waste with cars that is subsidized by taxes.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:11 PM   #23
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I do hope you're not serious.
I certainly am. I'm pissed off at all the lazy f*cks our society is plagued with. They are cyborgs..."Resistance is futile" bunch that thinks they can't live without their SUV to haul their 8 kids around to the soccer park for practice. And "Oh! Look at the Hummer, it's cool! Better buy one with my 70k income a year job and 300k house!" Yes I'm angry because I don't get paid sh*t, but I still wouldn't buy a car even if I made 100k a year.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:16 PM   #24
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I certainly am. I'm pissed off at all the lazy f*cks our society is plagued with. They are cyborgs..."Resistance is futile" bunch that thinks they can't live without their SUV to haul their 8 kids around to the soccer park for practice. And "Oh! Look at the Hummer, it's cool! Better buy one with my 70k income a year job and 300k house!" Yes I'm angry because I don't get paid sh*t, but I still wouldn't buy a car even if I made 100k a year.

Well, I hope you don't do these offensive gestures while riding your bicycle. It presents a very rude and negative image of cyclists.
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Old 04-09-08, 02:19 PM   #25
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I certainly am. I'm pissed off at all the lazy f*cks our society is plagued with. They are cyborgs..."Resistance is futile" bunch that thinks they can't live without their SUV to haul their 8 kids around to the soccer park for practice. And "Oh! Look at the Hummer, it's cool! Better buy one with my 70k income a year job and 300k house!" Yes I'm angry because I don't get paid sh*t, but I still wouldn't buy a car even if I made 100k a year.
you have the same mentality as the cager that gets behind you and honks their horn and throws the bird at you as they roar by. Life is too short to be so angry at something you have no power over.

As to the soccer thing, I think it's really misplaced. I would rather see eight kids getting to a soccer match in one hummer than in eight individual cars.
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