America's oil depenence cure...Rationing!
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Much of the oil supply issue is like a water well, pull too much from it, it goes dry. Wait a while, it comes back. There is a rate of extraction - and you can't get around it without using.... you guessed it, energy.
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Upon thinking about it, rationing might be a better way to obtain cleaner skies, conserve unrenewable resources, and reduce global warming than taxation would be. People would resent it if only the exceedingly wealthy could afford to drive. Rationing on the other hand, affects everyone equally, all the while cutting down on the filth that motorists put into the air.
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Upon thinking about it, rationing might be a better way to obtain cleaner skies, conserve unrenewable resources, and reduce global warming than taxation would be. People would resent it if only the exceedingly wealthy could afford to drive. Rationing on the other hand, affects everyone equally, all the while cutting down on the filth that motorists put into the air.
You actually think that the wealthy still wouldn't drive as much as they wanted? You have rich members of the global warming conference jet setting around the world in their carbon spewing private jets (gore included) preaching their do as I say not as I do message.
You think that paris hilton is going to roll up to the red carpet on a recumbent bike? The affects of rationing have been well documented throughout history, and have been mentioned ad nauseum within this topic (and the other one in this particular sub-forum). IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!
And believe me, people would resent it regardless of what the rich people did or did not do.
Why do you think it would work this time around?
I don't understand the fascination with rationing when there's dozens of other things we can do that would actually make a difference. All of them less painful and easier to enact than rationing.
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We have way too many unpredictable and irresponsible cyclists, in every community. These are the ones who run stop signs and red lights, ride on the wrong side of the road or on the sidewalk, don't bother to signal and weave in traffic. Because of them, too many motorists say they don't like cyclists.
While I believe in cycling, I would also like to see some traffic enforcement for cyclists who ride dangerously or carelessly.
When the cycling community takes itself seriously, others will also take us seriously.
While I believe in cycling, I would also like to see some traffic enforcement for cyclists who ride dangerously or carelessly.
When the cycling community takes itself seriously, others will also take us seriously.
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Has anybody noticed that the known carrying capacity for planet Earth
is 2 billion humans and we have 6 ,going on 7 now, billion humans to
feed, house,employ and/or support?
It's simple supply vs demand all over again.
is 2 billion humans and we have 6 ,going on 7 now, billion humans to
feed, house,employ and/or support?
It's simple supply vs demand all over again.
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Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
#56
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Industrial hemp. I'm very surprised how little it is discussed in these forums (especially the car free subsection).
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Industrial hemp. I'm very surprised how little it is discussed in these forums (especially the car free subsection).
Aaron
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"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
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Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
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"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Last edited by wahoonc; 04-15-08 at 12:47 PM.
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That's true, but laws can be repealed or amended, and will be if the legislature has enough pressure put on it. This, boys and girls, is what is called 'democracy.' Can you say 'democracy'? I thought you could.
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If you don't like it, run for Congress yourself; if you can get enough people in your district to agree with you, you can introduce a bill when you get elected.
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Aaron
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"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#61
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Some you guys need to pick up a piece of ancient technology called a book.
Rationing sucks.
I have seen it. Anyone that has lived through it can tell you it's really, really, bad. If you have an actual, honest to God EMERGENCY. Then it might be worth the aggravation.
We aren't even close to that point.
Before you spout more nonsense, study.
That's right, study.
But since you won't, here's the what works. Denmark slapped on a Carbon tax and used the money from it to fund the development of alternative energy sources. That actually reduced their dependence on oil and other carbon fuels.
The other options are crap.
Rationing sucks.
I have seen it. Anyone that has lived through it can tell you it's really, really, bad. If you have an actual, honest to God EMERGENCY. Then it might be worth the aggravation.
We aren't even close to that point.
Before you spout more nonsense, study.
That's right, study.
But since you won't, here's the what works. Denmark slapped on a Carbon tax and used the money from it to fund the development of alternative energy sources. That actually reduced their dependence on oil and other carbon fuels.
The other options are crap.
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Some you guys need to pick up a piece of ancient technology called a book.
Rationing sucks.
(snip)
That's right, study.
But since you won't, here's the what works. Denmark slapped on a Carbon tax and used the money from it to fund the development of alternative energy sources. That actually reduced their dependence on oil and other carbon fuels.
The other options are crap.
Rationing sucks.
(snip)
That's right, study.
But since you won't, here's the what works. Denmark slapped on a Carbon tax and used the money from it to fund the development of alternative energy sources. That actually reduced their dependence on oil and other carbon fuels.
The other options are crap.
get their attention.
Just look at the difficulty just getting them to read & learn about this issue has become.
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My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
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Actually, they won't.
1) Rationing self-destructs... Fact 'o Life
2) Cap and trade is about 20% as effective as a Carbon Tax
3) You have to get the money to stimulate alternative energy sources and the federal budget is going to be VERY tight for a decade.
There may be another way to do this. I have not seen it.
1) Rationing self-destructs... Fact 'o Life
2) Cap and trade is about 20% as effective as a Carbon Tax
3) You have to get the money to stimulate alternative energy sources and the federal budget is going to be VERY tight for a decade.
There may be another way to do this. I have not seen it.
#66
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Actually, they won't.
1) Rationing self-destructs... Fact 'o Life
2) Cap and trade is about 20% as effective as a Carbon Tax
3) You have to get the money to stimulate alternative energy sources and the federal budget is going to be VERY tight for a decade.
There may be another way to do this. I have not seen it.
1) Rationing self-destructs... Fact 'o Life
2) Cap and trade is about 20% as effective as a Carbon Tax
3) You have to get the money to stimulate alternative energy sources and the federal budget is going to be VERY tight for a decade.
There may be another way to do this. I have not seen it.
- Rationing by price. The price goes up until demand goes down. Essentially the default case, if we fail to act.
- Rationing by availability. Shortages lead to reduced demand.
- Rationing with coupons, like the OP suggested.
We can pick which one we want, but as supplies of oil dwindle, we will end up with some combination of the above..
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But ultimately there will be rationing of one form or another:
We can pick which one we want, but as supplies of oil dwindle, we will end up with some combination of the above..
- Rationing by price. The price goes up until demand goes down. Essentially the default case, if we fail to act.
- Rationing by availability. Shortages lead to reduced demand.
- Rationing with coupons, like the OP suggested.
We can pick which one we want, but as supplies of oil dwindle, we will end up with some combination of the above..
This option is the simplest free market option but it essentially penalizes the poor. If we're talking about fuel rationing, the price will take an ever-growing amount of money. The low-income wage earner who needs to commute to work each day will feel the pinch much more than the executive who has a rich salary.
• Rationing by availability
The way I understand this one, it could happen in one of two ways. If motorists are allowed to buy fuel only on certain days, it's an inconvenience but it could be workable. On the other hand, if the supply is allowed to run out, the pumps in a community could be dry for a day, a week or longer, with no pattern in place. This would lead to chaos.
• Rationing with coupons
Under this system, motorists are limited to how much they can buy, but the price is kept low or at least modest. This system can only work if the vast majority agree with the need for rationing. Without that, an ugly black market would arise and fuel prices there would skyrocket.
No matter which form of rationing one chooses, there will be some drawbacks. A rationing system is not something to be imposed lightly. It is a method for coping with an emergency situation.
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Rationing by price is already in place and starting to be felt in some quarters.
Rationing by supply is never more than a few days away at most in the US supply system, due to aging infrastructure and lack of a back up system or plan.
Rationing by coupon...I can't see anyone in the current or incoming goverment suggesting it...political suicide.
Owning, using and knowing how to maintain my bicycles, using mass transit (Amtrak)...Hedging my bets
Aaron
Rationing by supply is never more than a few days away at most in the US supply system, due to aging infrastructure and lack of a back up system or plan.
Rationing by coupon...I can't see anyone in the current or incoming goverment suggesting it...political suicide.
Owning, using and knowing how to maintain my bicycles, using mass transit (Amtrak)...Hedging my bets
Aaron
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ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#69
Señor Member
• Rationing by availability
The way I understand this one, it could happen in one of two ways. If motorists are allowed to buy fuel only on certain days, it's an inconvenience but it could be workable. On the other hand, if the supply is allowed to run out, the pumps in a community could be dry for a day, a week or longer, with no pattern in place. This would lead to chaos.
The way I understand this one, it could happen in one of two ways. If motorists are allowed to buy fuel only on certain days, it's an inconvenience but it could be workable. On the other hand, if the supply is allowed to run out, the pumps in a community could be dry for a day, a week or longer, with no pattern in place. This would lead to chaos.
Any hint that the supply might run out would also lead to hoarding, which would tend to exacerbate any shortages.
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Aaron
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"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
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"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#71
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• Rationing by price
This option is the simplest free market option but it essentially penalizes the poor. If we're talking about fuel rationing, the price will take an ever-growing amount of money. The low-income wage earner who needs to commute to work each day will feel the pinch much more than the executive who has a rich salary.
• Rationing by availability
The way I understand this one, it could happen in one of two ways. If motorists are allowed to buy fuel only on certain days, it's an inconvenience but it could be workable. On the other hand, if the supply is allowed to run out, the pumps in a community could be dry for a day, a week or longer, with no pattern in place. This would lead to chaos.
• Rationing with coupons
Under this system, motorists are limited to how much they can buy, but the price is kept low or at least modest. This system can only work if the vast majority agree with the need for rationing. Without that, an ugly black market would arise and fuel prices there would skyrocket.
No matter which form of rationing one chooses, there will be some drawbacks. A rationing system is not something to be imposed lightly. It is a method for coping with an emergency situation.
This option is the simplest free market option but it essentially penalizes the poor. If we're talking about fuel rationing, the price will take an ever-growing amount of money. The low-income wage earner who needs to commute to work each day will feel the pinch much more than the executive who has a rich salary.
• Rationing by availability
The way I understand this one, it could happen in one of two ways. If motorists are allowed to buy fuel only on certain days, it's an inconvenience but it could be workable. On the other hand, if the supply is allowed to run out, the pumps in a community could be dry for a day, a week or longer, with no pattern in place. This would lead to chaos.
• Rationing with coupons
Under this system, motorists are limited to how much they can buy, but the price is kept low or at least modest. This system can only work if the vast majority agree with the need for rationing. Without that, an ugly black market would arise and fuel prices there would skyrocket.
No matter which form of rationing one chooses, there will be some drawbacks. A rationing system is not something to be imposed lightly. It is a method for coping with an emergency situation.
way to keep the playing field at least seim-level for all until a new American Dream emerges.
There simply to many people in America (it's all about "supply & demand" folk's) to do otherwise.
The black market thing will emerge anyway.
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My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
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For those of a historical bent: WWII gasoline rationing was voted in within a day or two after the US declared war upon Japan. There were three classes: A for the general public; B for those with a legitimate need (spelled out in the legislation) for a ration about double that of A; and C which was essentially unrationed fuel, mandated for police, fire, other critical public services.
What's never mentioned in the history books is that Congress (House and Senate) promptly added a corollary giving themselves and their staffs C ration stickers.
Surprise, surprise. Count on that happening again, should we ever do legislated rationing again. After all, our politicians are SO necessary to our way of life.
What's never mentioned in the history books is that Congress (House and Senate) promptly added a corollary giving themselves and their staffs C ration stickers.
Surprise, surprise. Count on that happening again, should we ever do legislated rationing again. After all, our politicians are SO necessary to our way of life.
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I've even heard upper middle class persons (unfortunently it was an aunt and uncle) who have more than enough disposable income say that it would just be great if they just raised gas prices artifically to $5 per gallon, then less people will drive. Mind you they have an honda insight and hybrid civic.
.
.
It would really make some people start looking at alternative trasnportation.
But given that I am on these forums my opinion is biased because I only use my car to get to class, the bike gets me everywhere and anywhere else I could need to go.