TXChick

I don't have children, but I'm fully of the opinion that one can live car-free without children. I live in an area without good public transportation, and A LOT of people who refuse to walk or bike. I hear all day long that they have to have a car because they have __ children. Must they have a car?

Allen

No kids, and no public transportation where I live either.

ATAC49er

I've been car-free for almost 4 years, and I have a 10-y-o daughter (and a 5-y-o nephew who latches onto me like he was mine). She rides in a car about 1-2x/week (bro-in-law picks her up from after-school karate, sometimes church w/ him & my sis), other than that, she's on the bike every chance she gets. When the weather gets too cold, we ride the bus.

(A few years ago, we took a bus trip in Feb. to the LBS, who had ordered a TDF DVD for me. Despite an unexpected snowstorm the night before, we went as planned. Stopped along the way to grab a bite to eat, but the storm had closed the place without notice. We walked 1/4-mile through foot-deep snow to a grocery that had a deli, ate lunch, caught the next bus to the LBS, and did our business. She still remembers that as an adventure!)

If we had NO alternative but bike & bus, I would alter our schedules to accomodate. But it IS possible to function w/o a car; you just need to teach your child NOT to be a store-bought princess!

Novakane 

I have no children, but I see people with strollers on the bus all the time.

folder fanatic

Children always were used for a number of reasons for adult behavior. I have no children myself since I made a informed and best reasons for me not participating back when I was younger and in the marriage/child rearing market. Children were used for latching onto men as a ball & chain when a woman wanted to marry, a wepoen when the divorce occured, lack of a life when the adult person failed in society, a badge of honor when the person had no other item to show to others (father of five, mother of 15), or simply a lack of forethought when things were heating up in the past. And you are assured of free food, shelter, and other benefits if you just bring another life into the world. Cars, in the other hand, required thinking about them before they arrive, almost everybody has one, paying through the nose to maintain them, status symbol, and cost like anything just like a baby. And no one will be down on you for owning a resourse stealing status symbol to support those hungry mouths to feed. Cars and children do go hand in hand. They feed off each other.

But here in the inner suburbs and cities, the public transportation is jammed with whole extended poor families, including strollers filled with even newborn babies. Who in their right minds would bring a defenseless newborn aboard a germ filled bus or train?

chephy

Wise people who want their kids to have a strong and "smart" immune system, as opposed to a slew of allergies?

We live in the age of allergies (caused by oversterile environments), not in the age of infections.

jamesdenver

ok - i don't have kids - but one of my new best friends is my beautiful 15 month old niece. I couldn't be prouder of my sister's parenting skills. Along with her daily schedule of reading, playing, and other baby/toddler stuff she's constantly informing my niece of what she's doing: i.e. if playing with a flower she's telling her the name of the plant, - same with body parts, people, etc.

But one thing she's not is a germaphobe. While of course my niece wouldn't go play on the floor of a public restroom she's smart enough to realize the the world and its surfaces have germs - plain and simple. She's not petrified of my niece exploring, touching things, and interacting with life in general.

I've ridden the Subways in Mexico City and Buenos Aires and in both places saw mothers breast feeding their babies on in their seats. I'm sure those kids will turn out fine. And I'd bet a McDonald's playplace is far more germ laden than a bus or subway.

jamesdenver

also as mentioned I don't have or want kids, and the only reason I'd consider adopting a child is to piss off Focus on the Family. As of yet that's not prompted me to start the paperwork -but here's a picture of my niece -

and her in Amsterdam

So its really fruitless to think I'd find a kid any cuter than her huh?

RubenX 

I'm not car free but I'm using my bike more and more every day. I have an 8yo boy and a 1yo girl. I haul the girl to all nearby parks on a trailer, she loves it. In fact, she like it more than riding in the car (she hates car-seats). The school bus picks/drops the kid just a few houses down the street, no problem there.

I have multiple grocery stores and a hospital in a 4 mile radius. I think, for normal daily living, it can be done. But I would keep at least one car for emergencies and special occasions. Things like the baby getting sick in the middle of the night during a winter thunderstorm... or taking the kid to a soccer game final, 4 counties away.

Juha

Happens here all the time. Unless we're talking about MRSA filled buses and trains, I'd echo the earlier replies to this and say it's actually good for them.

Did you know that your keyboard can have more "bad" germs than toilet seat?

--J

wahoonc

How about Cellphones? I see plenty of infants "gnawing" on mom's cellphone

I lived car light with my two. We used to ride to school together in the mornings, and grandpa would walk the youngest one home in the afternoons; great thing about neighborhood schools!.

Aaron

Torrilin

If we decide to have kids and are still in Madison, we'll likely get *a* car, at least til we're done with tiny babies in winter. A tiny baby is too small to handle extreme temperatures well for long periods (if your winter temperatures range below zero F, it counts as extreme... those temperatures can do real damage to an adult and a baby can't tell you if it hurts). They also don't handle jolts well. The alternatives to a car are all a bit awkward. Add in that new parents are often very sleep deprived, and they may not have the energy to handle all errands by bike. Even if they do, sleep deprivation messes up your judgement. And yes, a fitter person will do better... but not everyone is fit enough and post-partum depression is a real issue. Build your plans around the worst case scenario so you've got some slack.

We could have my partner take over most of the outside errands on his bike. I'd go stir crazy in winter and get depressed (my SAD is helped by exercise). So that's a non-starter. For a family where the woman's mental health didn't depend on lots of excercise, it might work better.

My partner could work from home on errand days, so there was an adult to keep an eye on the baby. Then I could do errands, get my exercise and life would be ok. For many people, this just isn't an option. Some jobs just don't have a schedule that adapts to tiny babies.

We could get a box-bike like a bakfiets and use a winter cover. I can't lift one, so we'd need to be in a building where the bike storage solution is not "carry your bike up and down stairs". This is more flexible for the average family, but you would need a good location. It does take more energy to drive a 100lb bike than a 30lb one. Other large cargo bikes have similar issues, and are not well set up for tiny babies in winter. New mothers do not have the energy to kludge something together.

Carsharing could work, but in low density areas, they tend to not take off. Even urban areas with good mass transit tend to have minimal carsharing options.

So yes, if you're not in a relatively dense urban area, you may well need a car for a few years while your children are small. Once the youngest is in the 3-4 age range, a car should be optional again. The degree of car optional with children does not depend on how strong the parents are, it depends on the kids. Illnesses that are minor for an adult can make things very difficult for a child.

wahoonc

Good point(s) Torrilin...

My mom was car free with 4 of us, fortunately at the time we lived in a fairly temperate climate and most stuff was with in cycling/walking range. BTW mom has never ridden a bike! Taxi cabs can always be added to the transportation mix for occasional use. I can recall more than one occasion when mom would have to haul my baby sister to the clinic for some reason and would call a cab. We also used cabs for bi-monthly shopping trips, in between I was sent to the store to pickup necessary stuff with a wagon or bicycle with baskets, IIRC I was around 12 at the time.

Aaron

wahoonc

The sick baby at night can be covered by taxi cab...been there done that! For the soccer game, possibly car pool with someone else on the team and offer to kick in for gas...been there done that too!

Aaron

jgedwa

7 year old boy, 11 year old boy, and 38 year old boy (me!).

RubenX 

Didn't thought about that great ideas

ericy

I grew up on a farm, and we had barnyard animals running around. Nuff said .

Pedaleur

3 and 7 year olds. We're just now buying a car (after two years car-free).

Sure, it can be done, but there are certain conveniences that make a car desirable (going camping, going to the beach, seeing the countryside), particularly when your spouse isn't as into cycling as you are.

It's been interesting -- and I live in a place where it is quite easy to be car-free for day-to-day living -- but it's time...

TXChick

Thanks, everybody for your replies. I only know of one person with an infant, so I'll cut her some slack, but the rest I think just want their cars.

I also happen to live in an area in which the car RULES! My husband was just complaining the other day that you could drive down any street in any neighborhood--even the "bad" neighborhoods where all the houses are falling down and find shiny, expensive cars every 20 feet. I know that's a different mindset as well.

I tend to think people are just lazy, because I tend to often not give people the benefit of the doubt. (Working on that.) But seriously, I live in a neighborhood with two convenience stores, a few restaurants and two parks within easy walking distance (less than half a mile) and no one walks. I've watched my friends get in their cars and drive one block to get a soda. Then they look at me like I'm the crazy one when I suggest they walk.

(And for the record, I agree that babies need exposure to things that will build immunity. I wouldn't think a bit about taking an infant on a bus or train, etc.)

(And yes, jamesdenver has an adorable niece.)

talleymonster

Our daughter will be 1 year old this coming Saturday!
I think that if I did not have a child when I first discovered this forum, the car free lifestyle would have been more feasible. But with a kid it just isn't possible for me. Groceries, doctor visits, weather, most of our family is 125 miles away, etc. We just need the car for some things. Kudos to those who can do it car free!
But I am living as car free as I can. The wife will be a hard one to convert though.

Gustavo

Well, I would contend that is the other way around; if anything women want to marry in order to have children, that is why they put up with noisy, ill-behaved men. Do you really think they have children in order to be able to spend their lives taking care of their lazy husband (not to mention the extra burden of the children)?

As to the second point, your children would live on, have children of their own and perpetuate your memory, as well as your name and to some extent your physical and mental features. No matter how nice a car you'll buy, it won't be much fun once you're dead. I know of very few aging people who don't wish they had spent more time with their family. On the other hand, I never heard anyone mourn over not having bought an expensive enough car.

rockmom

Hi. My babies did just fine riding the bus with me and my husband, even in Madison. We were car free before the kids came along and stayed car free. For my kids, being old enough to need a bus pass is a right of passage to becoming a big kid.

Artkansas 

No kids that I'm aware of.

noteon 

The answer is so different for different people that the question is almost meaningless. I have twin three-year-olds and no car. In NYC, that means we can get anyplace where the subway station has an elevator, can't get anywhere if there's no elevator, and can't go anywhere that isn't along a subway line unless we rent a car.

For many people with children, yes, a car is an absolute necessity.

But more to the point, keep in mind that the answer "I need a car because I have kids" tactfully ends unwelcome conversations with bicycle-enthusiastic non-parents. I realize this will offend a few people, but if you're not a parent, your opinions about parenting are pretty much noise.

CommuterRun

The way the infrastructure is set up in the U.S., I would say that living in area that supports being car-free with kids is very much the exception. Sure, in some places it could be done. But the vast majority of this country is not set up this way. Everything is too far apart, on roads typically not suitable for children to walk or bicycle, and most people have no mass transit system.