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-   -   No sense of distance (http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car-free/426810-no-sense-distance.html)

Roody 01-27-14 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eofelis (Post 16444393)
One or two miles is certainly a walkable distance, if I have the time. Riding a bike is quicker. I'll easily hike 5-10 miles. I ride my bike to work most days, 4.5 miles. None of my co-workers ride a bike to work but they are not slouches. All of them are archaeologists and during the field season when they are in the field they routinely walk 5-10 miles per day for a session that can last up to 9 days.

I have a fairly physical job also. Still, most co-workers would never consider riding/walking to work even though they're not lazy or afraid of physical effort. Personally, I think 4or 5 miles is about ideal for a bike commute. Under two miles and I prefer walking. Currently I have a 7 minute commute walking or like 3 minutes on the bike. I always hated long commutes, even when I drove to work.

Fargo Wolf 01-28-14 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerv (Post 6834031)
Of course, there are many reasons for this. However, sadly, most people don't do enough walking to even fathom what a walkable/bikeable distance is.

Have you observed this?

I have actually observed this and all I can say is, is that people are lazy. People "NEED" to park in front of their destination, rather than park further away and walk. Personally, I was part of a two person crew doing a lane closure. About 200m down the road is a gas station. If he (my supervisor) needed a break, he drove, whereas I walked when I needed a break. From a cycling perspective (unless you are in the Netherlands or Belgium) it's really a non issue since we can pretty much pedal right up to our destination.

Machka 01-29-14 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 16444987)
Still, most co-workers would never consider riding/walking to work even though they're not lazy or afraid of physical effort.

Why not?

Roody 01-29-14 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 16449327)
Why not?

It just doesn't enter into their minds because to them transportation means cars and only cars. But that's just a guess on my part. I have never asked them.

Machka 01-29-14 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 16449375)
It just doesn't enter into their minds because to them transportation means cars and only cars. But that's just a guess on my part. I have never asked them.

You should ask them.

Do they participate in sports? Do they go to the gym regularly?

Roody 01-29-14 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 16449393)
You should ask them.

Do they participate in sports? Do they go to the gym regularly?

Why should I ask them and what difference does it make if they do sports?

Machka 01-29-14 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 16449422)
Why should I ask them and what difference does it make if they do sports?

Why not? Don't your work conversations centre around sports? They do here! Just about everyone participates in some sport or another ... and of course, as a part of keeping in shape for whatever the sport is, a lot of people cycle or walk to and from work. Or if they live some distance out, they park their cars several km away, or get off the bus early, and walk.

You mentioned that your coworkers aren't lazy nor are they afraid of physical effort ... so I presumed that they all participated in a sport. And it is just natural to talk about sports.

Machka 06-15-15 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerv (Post 6834031)
When I first arrived in Des Moines, I lived about 2 miles from my work in a suburb. When I arrived, I intended to either walk or take a bus to work, since I had no money for a car. I started doing this for a while, but felt severely out of place, since no one -- and I mean NO ONE -- uses the sidewalks in this suburb. For me, 2 miles was definitely doable, but somehow culturally taboo.

What I observed was that most people didn't walk because they had no idea of what a walkable distance was. Their automobile use prevented them from understanding what distances require a car and what distance can be done by bike/walking.

Years later, I run into quite a few people who say they would like to walk (bike or whatever...) to work but...

Of course, there are many reasons for this. However, sadly, most people don't do enough walking to even fathom what a walkable/bikeable distance is.

Have you observed this?

I've been quite pleased to see the number of people who walk in Hobart. Part of it is because there isn't particularly convenient or inexpensive parking close to the offices, so people park a kilometer or two away and walk.

And perhaps part of it is because since lots of people walk, they influence others to do the same.

Just in the past few months, for example, two of my coworkers who live maybe 3 or 4 km away, have started walking all the way to and from work rather than driving halfway and walking from there. I was not at all surprised that one of them started doing that. He's into several different sports and it is a good way to keep fit for his sports ... but I was a little bit surprised by the other. However he has started eating a healthier diet too, so it's probably all part of a plan to get fitter.

gerv 06-16-15 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 17896227)
I've been quite pleased to see the number of people who walk in Hobart. Part of it is because there isn't particularly convenient or inexpensive parking close to the offices, so people park a kilometer or two away and walk.

And perhaps part of it is because since lots of people walk, they influence others to do the same.

Just in the past few months, for example, two of my coworkers who live maybe 3 or 4 km away, have started walking all the way to and from work rather than driving halfway and walking from there. I was not at all surprised that one of them started doing that. He's into several different sports and it is a good way to keep fit for his sports ... but I was a little bit surprised by the other. However he has started eating a healthier diet too, so it's probably all part of a plan to get fitter.

Hi Machka... yes that would be a miracle here... to see people walking that distance. The bicycle here is more popular than walking... strange to say. It's basically a good solution for a city built up around cars. My hope would be that sometime in the future, the residency zoning would allow for more people per sq km... that would hopefully also increase the shopping and other services.


I think it will happen... but not sure if I'll see it. In my lifetime, I'm happen to see certain streets take on that "complete streets" makeover.... great to be on them in the evening and watching so many bikes and pedestrians... even though the only services are bars and restaurants.

jon c. 06-16-15 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 6843662)
I know of only one "vertical" mall in the US ...

There was one in downtown Rochester, NY. As I recall, it was built in the early 60s and was considered a pioneering design. Underground parking with two levels of retail above surrounding an atrium. I expect the structure remains, but it appears that downtown retail substantially dried up in the intervening years so it has probably been converted to other uses. It was quite a vital place in the 60s and 70s though.

bovine 06-16-15 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigGuyMo (Post 6839848)
I have observed a lot of people at work that think it is crazy to get there by any way other than driving.

Yeah, when I sold my car, several of my colleagues were floored. They couldn't begin to process it. And it's not like it's our only car. My wife and I just downgraded to a single car family, where she keeps the car to pick up the kids from school and I use the bike to drop them off / get to work.

kookaburra1701 06-16-15 09:57 PM

My folks, despite knowing that I regularly went on 50-60 mile rides were somehow convinced that I couldn't ride the 16 miles out into the country to visit them. I finally got it through their heads by showing up on their front porch at lunchtime one weekend with my bike. I know for myself my own sense of distance underwent radical changes when I started cycling, and now my "mental map" of my city is completely different than when I drove all the time. I still drive a city vehicle for work, and for the first hour or so of my shift I feel really awkward as I shift maps.

Roody 06-17-15 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kookaburra1701 (Post 17900924)
...I know for myself my own sense of distance underwent radical changes when I started cycling, and now my "mental map" of my city is completely different than when I drove all the time. I still drive a city vehicle for work, and for the first hour or so of my shift I feel really awkward as I shift maps.

Me too! I have been a passenger in a car giving directions to the driver. After a while it goes something like this:

Driver:"How come we're taking all these side streets? It would have been quicker to hop on the freeway to Boulevard X!"

Me: "Sorry, this is how I always ride my bike. Isn't it nice? Very quiet and scenic."

Artkansas 06-17-15 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 16449375)
It just doesn't enter into their minds because to them transportation means cars and only cars. But that's just a guess on my part. I have never asked them.

The car is a habit.

loky1179 06-17-15 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 16449375)
It just doesn't enter into their minds because to them transportation means cars and only cars. But that's just a guess on my part. I have never asked them.

It is not only car people - us bike commuters get stuck in our habits as well!

A couple months ago, my wife flew out to see her sister. She drove the car to the airport, and I was going to pick it up on the way home from work. Easy - the light rail stops a half block from my work downtown, and goes straight to the airport.

But how was I to get downtown in the morning? Normally I ride my bike 2.5 miles to the bus station, throw my bike on the bus, and get downtown. What was I going to do with my bike? Lock it at the transit station? Leave it at work? Ride part way to the airport and lock it up? Ride past the airport and lock it up?

The answer was obvious from the start - just walk to the bus station in the morning. I've done it many times. But that means breaking my routine. Instead of being out the door at 5:00 AM, I'd need to be out the door at 4:25 AM. Which means I'd have to get up at 3:50 AM. Noooooo!

In my mind, I was searching for a way to maintain my cycling routine, even when it made no sense.

Roody 06-18-15 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loky1179 (Post 17904176)
It is not only car people - us bike commuters get stuck in our habits as well!

A couple months ago, my wife flew out to see her sister. She drove the car to the airport, and I was going to pick it up on the way home from work. Easy - the light rail stops a half block from my work downtown, and goes straight to the airport.

But how was I to get downtown in the morning? Normally I ride my bike 2.5 miles to the bus station, throw my bike on the bus, and get downtown. What was I going to do with my bike? Lock it at the transit station? Leave it at work? Ride part way to the airport and lock it up? Ride past the airport and lock it up?

The answer was obvious from the start - just walk to the bus station in the morning. I've done it many times. But that means breaking my routine. Instead of being out the door at 5:00 AM, I'd need to be out the door at 4:25 AM. Which means I'd have to get up at 3:50 AM. Noooooo!

In my mind, I was searching for a way to maintain my cycling routine, even when it made no sense.

Being flexible and keeping an open mind--very good traits for a carfree person living in a car-centered world! :)

molten 07-05-15 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabor (Post 6834159)
Yes! But really, those are really personal questions. I could walk 12 miles to work. It would take me 3-4 hours, but I could do it.

And how much $ you would lose over that time of doing it. That walking to do would be so much easier, be it if you lived single --- than had a family.

molten 07-05-15 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 17904725)
Being flexible and keeping an open mind--very good traits for a carfree person living in a car-centered world! :)

It be the bike commuters / cyclists who don't let "habits" -- "get stuck" within their Mindsets.
Just the same bike commuters / cyclists who don't let m.v. drivers overtake the bike commuters / cyclists Mindsets.
THIS IS A POWER GAME, Against the bike commuter / cyclist.

molten 07-05-15 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artkansas (Post 17901498)
The car is a habit.

Great quote, but an underestimate (no exagg) in many areas.
As in soCAL. More as an ADDICTION.
The access to electronics installed in cars, add what be carried into it. Add what else be carried into cars. Be it legal or not.
Makes the CAR much a leisure HOME. A move-around home.

molten 07-05-15 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 16449393)
You should ask them.

Do they participate in sports? Do they go to the gym regularly?

Machka is very liberal in this; if I not had any proof/theory to such --- I'd get blown off. There are many such members that do that here, on the 'forum.' In the same context that I spoke of on the thread of motor vehicles against bicycles.

molten 07-05-15 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinthehippie (Post 6859272)
About perception, people who only drive don't realize there are other routes to take from point A to point B when they're used to the "convenient" car trip. I tell people I bike from downtown to the suburb where I work, and they think I'm absolutely insane. It's ~15 miles on the highways. It makes a little more sense to them once I explain I ride through town, quiet residential areas with the occasional coffee shop or park, and it's half that distance.


Also agree with the stigma that walking or biking means you're poor. The other day a girl told me I didn't have to throw in for a co-worker's present because she thought I didn't have the money (since I apparently can't afford to drive and I pack my lunch.) I said, "Are you kidding? I have next to no expenses! I set it up like that on purpose so I can spend money on silly stuff without stressing about where my rent money's coming from!"

I know that you're intent is of being fully in the chat topic. But you could have added that while you were doing what was best of your interest. As you be luckier than those who would have chosen to take advantage of the offer ---- esp. those of lower income.
Especially in a society of being Pre-Judged. I live in the same society; so I know what human animals that you are around.

molten 07-05-15 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platy (Post 6843867)
Yes, this is an excellent idea. There are a couple of retail strips in Austin that have the main car entrances on the parking lot side and what amounts to bike/ped entrances on the back side. I don't think they were planned that way, they just happened.

This is a great way to lay out retail strips. You have a big arterial road out front that feeds the parking lots. Then you have all the shops. If there are bike/ped entrances to the rear, that means they can connect to the nearby residential neighborhoods and thus to the alternate routes favored by many cyclists.

I have an extended idea:
To the retail strips that apply in your idea.
Be it that those who walk/ride a bike/mass transit ---- be it legally proven.

That those customers who commute in that version: will PAY A LOWER SALES TAX.
Esp. as bicycles/pedestrians do not damage asphalt.

molten 07-05-15 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwd (Post 6847589)
We get into habits or reflexive actions so we don't have to think about what we are doing. Some people just drive or bike or use a certain tool so often that they stop thinking in each and every usage whether or not it is the best way to get the job done. People who regularly use multiple modes of transport naturally get used to deciding which mode to use for any trip. Although I have a mental map of my neighborhood labeled with "bike here" "walk there" I sometimes use the other option for a change of pace. Sometimes it is good to make a decision once and stick to it always to save decision making time. Some busy people always carry the same thing in their lunch sack so they don't have to waste time thinking about lunch or going out for lunch. The same thing must happen with car drivers who never get around any other way, they just get in their cars even when it would be easier to walk directly to the destination.

aka "Repetition" (as in productivity of doing the same over&over again --- as some actually do in assembly)

mtb_addict 07-09-15 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerv (Post 6834031)
However, sadly, most people don't do enough walking to even fathom what a walkable/bikeable distance is.
Have you observed this?

Another aspect of this is social stigma linked to walking. In surburbs, people see the rare pedestrians and bicyclists as down-and-outs. Doesn't matter what the distance is; most people don't want to look poor. And if you're hanging around young and hip crowd, walking just ain't cool.

Walter S 07-09-15 03:27 PM

Most people don't walk to the mailbox. They just park their car there on the way in.


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