They've returned....
10-06-08, 01:29 PM
#1
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They've returned....
Over the summer drivers have seemed a little more polite toward cyclists....but:
This weekend I came up behind a small woman trying to cross a multi lane road. She pushed the button for the walk signal and waited and began crossing when she saw the sign light up for her. I was behind. This guy in a huge black SUV drove into the crosswalk leaning on the horn scaring her out of the crosswalk. That image of a white guy in a big car basically threatening to use deadly force against a small Asian woman in a crosswalk struck a raw nerve. Like an idiot I jumped in front of the SUV yelling at the guy that I had the light and he could just wait. It might have been comical to a dis interested viewer but there were none. The other people at the intersection were all in cars and they began honking and yelling. When I got to the other side one woman in an SUV rolled down her window and yelled "The light doesn't matter you don't have the right to slow a car." She may be right, part of the Virginia code goes:
"No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic."
Big black SUV wasn't approaching really, he was making a right hand turn into the crosswalk, but the "cars first" intent seems to match the woman's comment.
It was pretty dumb of me to stand in front of an angry guy in a car. On the other side the woman said to me "I wanted to do what you did but was too scared. Rich people don't care about anyone but themselves." When I start imagining things are getting better something like this happens to bring me back to reality.
This weekend I came up behind a small woman trying to cross a multi lane road. She pushed the button for the walk signal and waited and began crossing when she saw the sign light up for her. I was behind. This guy in a huge black SUV drove into the crosswalk leaning on the horn scaring her out of the crosswalk. That image of a white guy in a big car basically threatening to use deadly force against a small Asian woman in a crosswalk struck a raw nerve. Like an idiot I jumped in front of the SUV yelling at the guy that I had the light and he could just wait. It might have been comical to a dis interested viewer but there were none. The other people at the intersection were all in cars and they began honking and yelling. When I got to the other side one woman in an SUV rolled down her window and yelled "The light doesn't matter you don't have the right to slow a car." She may be right, part of the Virginia code goes:
"No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic."
Big black SUV wasn't approaching really, he was making a right hand turn into the crosswalk, but the "cars first" intent seems to match the woman's comment.
It was pretty dumb of me to stand in front of an angry guy in a car. On the other side the woman said to me "I wanted to do what you did but was too scared. Rich people don't care about anyone but themselves." When I start imagining things are getting better something like this happens to bring me back to reality.
10-06-08, 02:57 PM
#2
Burn Rubber
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In an instance when driving my vehicle, if at a red light, and it turns green I don't take it for granted and hit the accelerator. Having the green may give me the right, but it's a good thing to double-check the cross traffic for a split sec to see that it is safe. Then go. So, the woman might want to check traffic, and then step out.
Perhaps Mr. SUV was hoping she'd hang for a sec before stepping out. As if, "let me get through the intersection and out of your way before you make me stop."
Just a thought.
Perhaps Mr. SUV was hoping she'd hang for a sec before stepping out. As if, "let me get through the intersection and out of your way before you make me stop."
Just a thought.
10-06-08, 05:53 PM
#3
Sophomoric Member
In an instance when driving my vehicle, if at a red light, and it turns green I don't take it for granted and hit the accelerator. Having the green may give me the right, but it's a good thing to double-check the cross traffic for a split sec to see that it is safe. Then go. So, the woman might want to check traffic, and then step out.
Perhaps Mr. SUV was hoping she'd hang for a sec before stepping out. As if, "let me get through the intersection and out of your way before you make me stop."
Just a thought.
Perhaps Mr. SUV was hoping she'd hang for a sec before stepping out. As if, "let me get through the intersection and out of your way before you make me stop."
Just a thought.
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10-06-08, 06:37 PM
#4
In the right lane
When I moved to the US, I was struck by the fact that cars never stop at crosswalks... even if lights are blazing. In contrast, where I lived in Canada, cars always stopped. The reason is that they gets tickets when they don't. Peds assume they have the rights of way too. They'll step out and force the driver to stop. Once I saw a ped throw something at a car (it hit the car...) that did not stop at a crosswalk.
What it all boils down to is that peds need to start complaining loud and clear... get the police treating this as a serious issue. There's no reason that car sshould have the right of way at pedestrian crosswalks... that's crazy!
What it all boils down to is that peds need to start complaining loud and clear... get the police treating this as a serious issue. There's no reason that car sshould have the right of way at pedestrian crosswalks... that's crazy!
10-06-08, 06:40 PM
#5
Senior Member
Sadly, it seems your average American feels that bigger and faster vehicles are more important. I blame this partly on our country's obsession with speed and aggressiveness. The most important thing in the world to them is that they get to their destination as quickly as possible, no matter what happens to anyone else.
10-06-08, 06:52 PM
#7
In the right lane
The squeaky wheel gets the oil.
10-06-08, 07:05 PM
#8
aka Phil Jungels
In Illinois, it is illegal to drive thru a marked crosswalk, if pedestrians "or bicycles" are in it.
No kidding, when it comes to marked crosswalks, bicycles are to be treated as if they are pedestians. Brand new legislation, thank you very much.
Even if there is no other traffic control present.
No kidding, when it comes to marked crosswalks, bicycles are to be treated as if they are pedestians. Brand new legislation, thank you very much.
Even if there is no other traffic control present.
10-06-08, 07:07 PM
#9
Sophomoric Member
I agree there's a problem, but I don't think it's the legislation. Here in Michigan peds do have the legal right of way in crosswalks and at intersections where ther are no marked crosswalks. The law exists, but it's poorly enforced, and many drivers do believe that "might makes right."
One time a car almost hit me when I was crossing with the light in a crosswalk. There was a cop car right behind him. At first the cop did nothing. I caught her eye and yelled, "Hey! Go get him!" I was surprised when she actually did put her lights on and pulled the driver over. Other pedestrians who saw this actually cheered and applauded.
One time a car almost hit me when I was crossing with the light in a crosswalk. There was a cop car right behind him. At first the cop did nothing. I caught her eye and yelled, "Hey! Go get him!" I was surprised when she actually did put her lights on and pulled the driver over. Other pedestrians who saw this actually cheered and applauded.
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10-06-08, 07:09 PM
#10
Sophomoric Member
In Illinois, it is illegal to drive thru a marked crosswalk, if pedestrians "or bicycles" are in it.
No kidding, when it comes to marked crosswalks, bicycles are to be treated as if they are pedestians. Brand new legislation, thank you very much.
Even if there is no other traffic control present.
No kidding, when it comes to marked crosswalks, bicycles are to be treated as if they are pedestians. Brand new legislation, thank you very much.
Even if there is no other traffic control present.
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"Think Outside the Cage"
10-07-08, 03:25 AM
#11
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This one of the major reasons I abhor the Right Turn on Red laws. They make a careless motorist care less. I walk a fair bit when the opportunity exists and this is where I have most of my near misses. Regardless of the fact I have the right of way, many drivers will still bully their way through. It is illegal in most states, but seldom enforced in our car centric society.
Aaron
Aaron
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Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
10-07-08, 06:06 AM
#12
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I'd have to check the code, but it wouldn't surprise me if a bike in a crosswalk counted as a pedestrian in WI (given the huge network of state trails, it's a reasonable safety law). And even if a rider doesn't count, at a hazardous intersection, you can always get off the bike and walk... and I do. I'm a lot better at judging a situation on foot than on a bike or in a car, so in a bad spot, I'd rather cross using my absolute best skills.
And yes, right turn on red is a horrible law. It is the reason why the majority of pedestrian deaths happen in crosswalks, while the pedestrian was crossing legally. It's also a reason why I say that a safe pedestrian area is safe for bikes too... because a right turn on red is an excellent way to get right hooked. We are not pedestrians, but the kind of legal protections that keep a pedestrian safe go a long way towards preventing many situations that are bad for us too.
And yes, right turn on red is a horrible law. It is the reason why the majority of pedestrian deaths happen in crosswalks, while the pedestrian was crossing legally. It's also a reason why I say that a safe pedestrian area is safe for bikes too... because a right turn on red is an excellent way to get right hooked. We are not pedestrians, but the kind of legal protections that keep a pedestrian safe go a long way towards preventing many situations that are bad for us too.
10-07-08, 06:11 AM
#13
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Over the summer drivers have seemed a little more polite toward cyclists....but:
This weekend I came up behind a small woman trying to cross a multi lane road. She pushed the button for the walk signal and waited and began crossing when she saw the sign light up for her. I was behind. This guy in a huge black SUV drove into the crosswalk leaning on the horn scaring her out of the crosswalk. That image of a white guy in a big car basically threatening to use deadly force against a small Asian woman in a crosswalk struck a raw nerve. Like an idiot I jumped in front of the SUV yelling at the guy that I had the light and he could just wait. It might have been comical to a dis interested viewer but there were none. The other people at the intersection were all in cars and they began honking and yelling. When I got to the other side one woman in an SUV rolled down her window and yelled "The light doesn't matter you don't have the right to slow a car." She may be right, part of the Virginia code goes:
"No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic."
Big black SUV wasn't approaching really, he was making a right hand turn into the crosswalk, but the "cars first" intent seems to match the woman's comment.
It was pretty dumb of me to stand in front of an angry guy in a car. On the other side the woman said to me "I wanted to do what you did but was too scared. Rich people don't care about anyone but themselves." When I start imagining things are getting better something like this happens to bring me back to reality.
This weekend I came up behind a small woman trying to cross a multi lane road. She pushed the button for the walk signal and waited and began crossing when she saw the sign light up for her. I was behind. This guy in a huge black SUV drove into the crosswalk leaning on the horn scaring her out of the crosswalk. That image of a white guy in a big car basically threatening to use deadly force against a small Asian woman in a crosswalk struck a raw nerve. Like an idiot I jumped in front of the SUV yelling at the guy that I had the light and he could just wait. It might have been comical to a dis interested viewer but there were none. The other people at the intersection were all in cars and they began honking and yelling. When I got to the other side one woman in an SUV rolled down her window and yelled "The light doesn't matter you don't have the right to slow a car." She may be right, part of the Virginia code goes:
"No pedestrian shall enter or cross an intersection in disregard of approaching traffic."
Big black SUV wasn't approaching really, he was making a right hand turn into the crosswalk, but the "cars first" intent seems to match the woman's comment.
It was pretty dumb of me to stand in front of an angry guy in a car. On the other side the woman said to me "I wanted to do what you did but was too scared. Rich people don't care about anyone but themselves." When I start imagining things are getting better something like this happens to bring me back to reality.
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10-07-08, 09:55 AM
#14
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Torrilin & Wahoonc, the guy had a green and we had a walk signal but I agree with the problem with hot rights and right on red.
One thing to watch out for if you are getting around without a car in Virginia and probably other places is the irregularity of signals. It seems like they're trying to use some kind of logic circuits based on the road sensors so at complicated intersections with separate greens for turners some greens or reds get skipped. Bikers tend to learn the signal patterns and anticipate traffic gaps but the rhythm is different between rush hour and weekends. This is apparent at intersections where a local road parallels a major road. At one such intersection a daily bike commuter got killed at an intersection he went through daily. How could an experienced commuter get hit there? It happened on Sunday. I used to ride by there and I noticed that on Sunday's when few cars try to move from the local to the express road, a red light that is safe to jump during the rush hour is no longer safe. Guess what? That is right where the biker got killed.
One thing to watch out for if you are getting around without a car in Virginia and probably other places is the irregularity of signals. It seems like they're trying to use some kind of logic circuits based on the road sensors so at complicated intersections with separate greens for turners some greens or reds get skipped. Bikers tend to learn the signal patterns and anticipate traffic gaps but the rhythm is different between rush hour and weekends. This is apparent at intersections where a local road parallels a major road. At one such intersection a daily bike commuter got killed at an intersection he went through daily. How could an experienced commuter get hit there? It happened on Sunday. I used to ride by there and I noticed that on Sunday's when few cars try to move from the local to the express road, a red light that is safe to jump during the rush hour is no longer safe. Guess what? That is right where the biker got killed.
