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  1. #1
    Senior Member nostalgic's Avatar
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    You need a car to get around here.

    Has anyone else heard people automatically say this without actually testing their city/town without a car?

    I kept hearing people say this to me over and over, yet I've gone six months successfully without a car. I go to school, work and do whatever else I like.

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    You need a car to live in L.A.,ask anyone that lives here,yet I've managed for 35 years without one.I even take my vacations on my bike.
    Everything should be as simple as possible...But not more so.---Albert Einstein

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    Yup. When we moved here, I was told that in about two week's time, we'd realize that being car-free was simply not feasible here, especially since we'd chosen to live on the outskirts of the city rather than in a more centrally-located neighborhood. The thing is, these "outskirts" are only three miles from the central business district, and this city is pretty much completely flat. If we were older or disabled, it might be less fun to be car-free because the public transportation system is severely lacking, but it's still not that bad. My older neighbor doesn't drive and she seems to be doing just fine!

    Most people, even car-free advocates, assume that having children automatically makes being car-free impossible. My family is living proof that it is not!

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    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Yes, people constantly tell me it can't be done, or I'm making a great sacrifice, or I'm just crazy. I'm somewhat sure they're wrong about all that.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

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    Senior Member Newspaperguy's Avatar
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    If the choice is between a car and walking, then yes, some places are not walkable. Add a decent transit system, a good regional bus service and a bicycle and most (although not all) communities are manageable without a car.
    Life is good.

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    Senior Member wheel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nostalgic View Post
    Has anyone else heard people automatically say this without actually testing their city/town without a car?

    I kept hearing people say this to me over and over, yet I've gone six months successfully without a car. I go to school, work and do whatever else I like.
    Nearest transit is 12 miles. Food store is 6 or 8 miles. 0F and snow. Car free is not automatic here at all. Unless you have lots of time.
    My Youtube Cycling Videos Here

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    Senior Member carlspeed's Avatar
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    I can't really imagine a situation where you wouldn't be able to live without a car - if you didn't want one. However, in my case, I flat out like cars. For me, living without one isn't something I would remotely want to do. With that being said though, if I didn't want a car, I could easily live without one. My work is close, and I live within walking distance of all the shopping areas locally. Plus, I buy most of my fun stuff online anyway.
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  8. #8
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booger1 View Post
    You need a car to live in L.A.,ask anyone that lives here,yet I've managed for 35 years without one.I even take my vacations on my bike.
    I live in the Los Angeles area also. In my own experience, I would also agree on it is possible to live here without a car. But is it an ideal? No, as the physical area is very spread out and if you use bikes or the poorly laid out public bus/train systems, just might make yourself or your family limited to a rather narrow bike or walkable area. And many roadways are not too well adapted for use of bikes on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarFreeFam4 View Post
    Yup. When we moved here, I was told that in about two week's time, we'd realize that being car-free was simply not feasible here, especially since we'd chosen to live on the outskirts of the city rather than in a more centrally-located neighborhood. The thing is, these "outskirts" are only three miles from the central business district, and this city is pretty much completely flat. If we were older or disabled, it might be less fun to be car-free because the public transportation system is severely lacking, but it's still not that bad. My older neighbor doesn't drive and she seems to be doing just fine!

    Most people, even car-free advocates, assume that having children automatically makes being car-free impossible. My family is living proof that it is not!
    That's great! But each of us must remember to factor in time and terrain in order to see if any region supports a car free existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newspaperguy View Post
    If the choice is between a car and walking, then yes, some places are not walkable. Add a decent transit system, a good regional bus service and a bicycle and most (although not all) communities are manageable without a car.
    Manageable? Perhaps. But attractive and convenient to support a car free lifestyle? Perhaps not. Every individual must decide for him/herself that actually living a car free existence is doable for themselves. Which might mean standing out in extreme hot or cold weather, rain, snow, ice or consider the crime in the area where you reside or work in.

    Quote Originally Posted by wheel View Post
    Nearest transit is 12 miles. Food store is 6 or 8 miles. 0F and snow. Car free is not automatic here at all. Unless you have lots of time.
    Unless you are unemployed and/or have no caregiving responsibilities, you don't have the luxury of plenty of time.
    Last edited by folder fanatic; 10-20-10 at 07:10 PM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member crazybikerchick's Avatar
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    The *average* person does not consider riding a bicycle in mixed traffic a viable transportation alternative. So yeah most places where amenities are not within a quarter to half mile walk of residences, where there is not a frequent public transit system, and where there are not segregated bicycle paths, you always hear "you need a car to get around here". We of course know better

  10. #10
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    I live in a smaller city of only a million with a temperature that can range from being in the 90's during the summer and get as cold as -50 in the winter... I should note this city takes up more space than New York.

    Have been car free for 3 years and was car light before that and I do ride almost every day regardless of the weather or distance I have to travel.

    Just got a car... will use that for longer trips with my daughters since they are not up to riding 60 miles to see their grandmother and family although a tandem is in the works.

  11. #11
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    For me the area where I need a car most, is to participate in my bicycle advocacy activities. Since I changed jobs to a company farther away, it's difficult for me to get to meetings on time. And the route home from the meetings is a long ride on pretty hilly, narrow and heavily traveled street. There are no alternate routes and riding it aggravates me more than the meetings gladden me.
    "He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

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    I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

  12. #12
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
    For me the area where I need a car most, is to participate in my bicycle advocacy activities. Since I changed jobs to a company farther away, it's difficult for me to get to meetings on time. And the route home from the meetings is a long ride on pretty hilly, narrow and heavily traveled street. There are no alternate routes and riding it aggravates me more than the meetings gladden me.
    I have to wonder how good this advocacy group is if they're not trying to help you with these issues.


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  13. #13
    It's got electrolytes! chucky's Avatar
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    The psychological barrier to biking everywhere is very difficult to tackle without good transit to give you confidence that you won't be stranded. In reality you don't need transit, but most people can't accept that until after they've tried it for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Newspaperguy View Post
    If the choice is between a car and walking, then yes, some places are not walkable. Add a decent transit system, a good regional bus service and a bicycle and most (although not all) communities are manageable without a car.
    This is a good point. Most people assume that if you can't walk there then you can't bike there. I guess the overarching principle is that biking is just another form of walking?

    Quote Originally Posted by wheel View Post
    Nearest transit is 12 miles. Food store is 6 or 8 miles. 0F and snow. Car free is not automatic here at all. Unless you have lots of time.
    You don't have enough time to spend 30-40 min traveling to the grocery store? Some people need to travel a lot further than that to get groceries in their cars!

    When it snows it'll probably be faster to ride a bike than drive cause you don't have to clean the snow off it or worry about parking spaces being filled with snow mounds.

  14. #14
    You gonna eat that? Doohickie's Avatar
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    I was running errands today and on the way back in I stopped at a garage sale about 3 miles from home. I asked about one or two items, and being on the bike, the guy asked me how far away I lived. I told him, "Just past the Wal-Mart from here." His eyes opened wide and he asked, "You rode all the way over here?!??"
    I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.



    Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."

  15. #15
    In the right lane gerv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I have to wonder how good this advocacy group is if they're not trying to help you with these issues.
    Yeah. Nothing looks as silly as a group of bicycle advocates who show up for meetings with their automobiles parked outside. I should know. I've mentioned this at our local bike co-op meetings.

    Normally I can make it by bike, but there are times when I have to use a car. Most of my group lives in the same area where the meetings are held, but I have to travel 12 miles from work to the meeting site. To make this trip by bike I have to leave work early.

    Also, I end up do a number of activities for the co-op using a car... last week I had to pick up some bikes.... 4 in total... and try to find a place to store them.

  16. #16
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chucky View Post
    The psychological barrier to biking everywhere is very difficult to tackle without good transit to give you confidence that you won't be stranded. In reality you don't need transit, but most people can't accept that until after they've tried it for themselves.



    This is a good point. Most people assume that if you can't walk there then you can't bike there. I guess the overarching principle is that biking is just another form of walking?



    You don't have enough time to spend 30-40 min traveling to the grocery store? Some people need to travel a lot further than that to get groceries in their cars!

    When it snows it'll probably be faster to ride a bike than drive cause you don't have to clean the snow off it or worry about parking spaces being filled with snow mounds.
    And if you happen to live in the same area that just became a 2+ hour ride on a bike. I used to live 7 miles from my closest grocery store, 9 miles from the nearest town (not much there) and 12-14 miles from the nearest home/hardware center. I could figure on at least 2 hours of time just for groceries if I rode the bike. Using a car the total time was under an hour.

    Unfortunately the bicycle is not as a one size fits all panacea for transportation. Also unfortunately the current culture and infrastructure in this country supports the automobile and cyclists and pedestrians are on the fringe, if considered at all.

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  17. #17
    Senior Member nostalgic's Avatar
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    Well, I live in Phoenix, AZ. The pavement is pretty much flat all around, there are bike lanes almost everywhere (if you test out the streets), and it hardly ever rains (except during monsoon season, and then that's just about a week out of the summer), and absolutely never snows. Yet, I'm told you NEED a car to get around!

    Maybe so, from here to Flagstaff.


  18. #18
    Senior Member crazybikerchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerv View Post
    Also, I end up do a number of activities for the co-op using a car... last week I had to pick up some bikes.... 4 in total... and try to find a place to store them.
    Sounds like the co-op needs to invest in a long flatbed bike trailer!

  19. #19
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    I have lived places were cycling is much harder than most other forms of transportation. For years I had a house in a resort mountain town at the 5500 foot level. There were no flat roads and the roads they did have had no shoulder if you did decide to brave it and get a MTB. In the winter the graders pushed massive amounts of snow to the side of the road making the lanes even more cramped to traffic. The busses in the area did not run when it snowed so getting around was done by car or not at all. Ice storms were even worse. No the bad weather was not all that common but it was one of the reasons for the roads not having any shoulder even during good weather.

    One thing a person wanting to be car free needs to consider is what they want to give up to do so. I used to play drums and percussion in a band and that does not lend itself to a car free life style at all. When I moved off of the mountain and got back into cycling I managed to cut my vehicle usage down by close to 60 percent, maybe more. But I was also much farther from the group I used to play music with. I managed to hook up with a group closer to where I live but transporting a full kit was nearly impossible by bike. I sold the kit but have kept my hand drums and percussion equipment. I may go to a gig and play at a fair or world music festival now and then and I may take a bike with me to get around while I am there but I can't haul congas, Djembe, Bongos, bells, tambourines, blocks, triangles, chimes and all the stands and a stool with my bike.

    Somehow I don’t think music is the only activity that becomes problematic when someone wants to give up cars.

  20. #20
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    I have lived places were cycling is much harder than most other forms of transportation. For years I had a house in a resort mountain town at the 5500 foot level. There were no flat roads and the roads they did have had no shoulder if you did decide to brave it and get a MTB. In the winter the graders pushed massive amounts of snow to the side of the road making the lanes even more cramped to traffic. The busses in the area did not run when it snowed so getting around was done by car or not at all. Ice storms were even worse. No the bad weather was not all that common but it was one of the reasons for the roads not having any shoulder even during good weather.

    One thing a person wanting to be car free needs to consider is what they want to give up to do so. I used to play drums and percussion in a band and that does not lend itself to a car free life style at all. When I moved off of the mountain and got back into cycling I managed to cut my vehicle usage down by close to 60 percent, maybe more. But I was also much farther from the group I used to play music with. I managed to hook up with a group closer to where I live but transporting a full kit was nearly impossible by bike. I sold the kit but have kept my hand drums and percussion equipment. I may go to a gig and play at a fair or world music festival now and then and I may take a bike with me to get around while I am there but I can't haul congas, Djembe, Bongos, bells, tambourines, blocks, triangles, chimes and all the stands and a stool with my bike.

    Somehow I don’t think music is the only activity that becomes problematic when someone wants to give up cars.
    Too bad drums don't have a wah-wah pedal, because you sure do a lot of crying about how hard it is to ride a bike. For the record, many of us are able to live full and satisfying lives without cars. Of course the only instrument we can play is the harmonica, but we get by.



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  21. #21
    Senior Member Newspaperguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    One thing a person wanting to be car free needs to consider is what they want to give up to do so. I used to play drums and percussion in a band and that does not lend itself to a car free life style at all. When I moved off of the mountain and got back into cycling I managed to cut my vehicle usage down by close to 60 percent, maybe more. But I was also much farther from the group I used to play music with. I managed to hook up with a group closer to where I live but transporting a full kit was nearly impossible by bike. I sold the kit but have kept my hand drums and percussion equipment. I may go to a gig and play at a fair or world music festival now and then and I may take a bike with me to get around while I am there but I can't haul congas, Djembe, Bongos, bells, tambourines, blocks, triangles, chimes and all the stands and a stool with my bike.

    Somehow I don’t think music is the only activity that becomes problematic when someone wants to give up cars.
    That's a valid point, Robert. Hockey players also have a challenge since they have to haul their gear to and from the arena. It's possible to do this using a bike trailer for in-town games, but it doesn't work so well for away games. Skiers have to haul their gear to the slopes, which tend to be at the end of winding roads. Hunters need to find a way to haul their game back to town with them.

    There are going to be limits to car-free living, but there are also choices one must make for any lifestyle. I like the lifestyle I've got, but I also realize not everyone will be able to make it work for themselves. But I'm also more interested in finding out how to make a car-light life work for me than in looking for reasons why it might not work for someone else.
    Life is good.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Too bad drums don't have a wah-wah pedal, because you sure do a lot of crying about how hard it is to ride a bike. For the record, many of us are able to live full and satisfying lives without cars. Of course the only instrument we can play is the harmonica, but we get by.
    Got me there. But I have noticed many of the car free people do live a somewhat more isolated life. I have read how parents need to limit the after school activities of their children for a car free lifestyle and profess that it is worth it. I took up the harmonica for a while but I prefer percussion because I find timing easier to practice than perfect pitch.
    But do you really so easily dismiss such things as music and art as an impediment to a vehicle free lifestyle? Could even a lead guitar player transport his multiple instruments by bike if that is how they make their living? My interest was only a side line not a profession. Transporting several thousands of dollars worth of Drums or Guitars by bicycle is not something most people would consider a wise idea.

    Is what you are saying that these are not problems for someone interested in playing music or supplementing their income by playing music in a band? I can just imagine the Philharmonic playing harmonicas, Kazoos and spoons with a flute or two tossed in. How about the Blue Man Group with Jews Harps? And yes I have a complete harmonic set of them. They come in concert pitch believe it or not. We truly would be living in a different world.

    So tell me how would you have gone car free and kept playing in a band without imposing on someone with a car to use their fuel?

    I am beginning to wonder just what outside hobbies and activities car free people in this forum have?

  23. #23
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newspaperguy View Post
    That's a valid point, Robert. Hockey players also have a challenge since they have to haul their gear to and from the arena. It's possible to do this using a bike trailer for in-town games, but it doesn't work so well for away games. Skiers have to haul their gear to the slopes, which tend to be at the end of winding roads. Hunters need to find a way to haul their game back to town with them.

    There are going to be limits to car-free living, but there are also choices one must make for any lifestyle. I like the lifestyle I've got, but I also realize not everyone will be able to make it work for themselves. But I'm also more interested in finding out how to make a car-light life work for me than in looking for reasons why it might not work for someone else.
    My son played a double bass for years...we had a dedicated Honda station wagon to haul the thing around...fortunately it was an old Honda that I paid $150 for our other family car at the time was a 4 door Ford Escort and the bass wouldn't fit in it.

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  24. #24
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    Can't a hokey player leave his pads and gear at the arena? Can't a drummer use another groups drums? Can a skier not use rental skis or rent a locker to keep his skis in on the slopes?

    It seems that the problem is not the lack of car but the idea that we all have to haul all this stuff to and from our homes whenever we want to use it. Is it a sacrifice to rent skis rather than buy them and haul them around all the time or is it a luxury?

  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=zeppinger;11668940]Can't a hokey player leave his pads and gear at the arena? Can't a drummer use another groups drums? Can a skier not use rental skis or rent a locker to keep his skis in on the slopes?

    You tell us? Is having a bike and locking it up a Luxury? I don't think you grasp the relationship to a personís equipment and their hobby or art form. So Iíll put it this way. If seven people come to a store and go in to shop while leaving their bikes outside does it make a difference what bike the first person takes when they finish shopping? If not why do people lock their bikes? Do you care if you ride to work on a Hybrid or MTB and had to ride home on a BMX?
    To answer your question as a drummer, it makes a difference if you use DW or Gretsch drums and it makes a difference if you use a Birch wood drum or Maple. No one is going to let you leave a set of drums for them to be responsible for and no one would replace them if the person you left them for decided to take your drums and play a gig in Florida.
    Or are you saying that anything outside of going to work and going home is a luxury?

    If you donít mind might I ask, do you participate in any group or team activities?

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