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  1. #1
    Banned. folder fanatic's Avatar
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    Forced Return To Driving A Privately Owned Small Car

    Here is the thread that I will more fully discuss my changes in primary transportation means. I have decided to return to driving and private vehicle ownership. Right now in a part time capacity, later more full time. To understand the whys, let me illustrate the changes in my life.

    I have always been a real supporter and rider of cycling as a primary means of getting around. I never owned a car or other private motor vehicle of any type. I do have a valid driver’s license for my state and had one since I was 20 years old. I paid for my driving lessons & exams myself. I occasionally rented or hired cars as needed. My preferred method of transport was always and still is my bikes. Unfortunately, circumstances have been and will continue to happen in my personal and professional life that is pushing me back toward driving.

    First off, I would like to introduce you to my dog, Zero (see photos below). He was the final straw in going back to driving. He injured his back recently and became lame. The original orthodox veterinarian I consulted wanted to perform surgery immediately, even going so far as to suggest to put him down. I did not want to go the surgery route-especially the other one suggested-until I exhausted all other options. In order to exercise these options, I have to go to a distant holistic clinic about 35 min.-1 hour by car, 2 or more hours by bus/train, or I don’t know really how long by bike to get to this particular clinic. And the bike trip might do far more damage to his spine as I must keep the dog calm and immobilized during transport-roadways are not too smooth and very noisy around here. Not to mention not making him too nervous or excitable in the process.

    I am renting a car for this particular problem I am dealing with my dog as I did for myself earlier this year. But then I realize there have been and will continue to be the need for a privately owned car because of the huge distance I must always cross when I do anything major here in the Los Angeles basin especially with other people who cannot drive or take public transit. Car sharing is not much an doable option as the cars are located in faraway locations (the nearest ones are around 7 miles away) from where I am located-never mind the run on cars during high demand periods like transit strikes. I realise that there will be times that I need to chauffeur other sick, elderly, infants, the temporary or permanently disabled people, my own and/or other people's pets, or even myself when I cannot ride a bike for a good reason.

    My bicycles will still be my “number one” transportation option I will still vigorously support and do myself as much as possible even after the arrival of one (and only one) new small car (no large ones acceptable by me (see examples of the type of cars I grew up in and love below with my bikes) that is just A to B transportation for the times that my faithful bicycles cannot do as well. I will grudgingly support it mechanically and insured in a manner that is safe to myself, my passengers, and everybody else out on the road. I do take some solace and some measure of comfort in viewing videos like the one from Copenhagen showing smaller cars and bicycles both sharing space. These vehicles are used by this city’s residents that reflect each person’s best needs being addressed by the use of one over the other at different times for different activities..

    I leave you with this wonderful video that helped me see that I can return to driving responsibly and not leave my bikes behind. I humbly ask for your well wishes for my dog’s speedy recovery. Thank you for over 5 years of unconditional support!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5izmhMvLmw&NR=1
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    Last edited by folder fanatic; 10-25-10 at 11:21 AM.

  2. #2
    In the right lane gerv's Avatar
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    If it's any consolation, that Austin mini is a really nice car to drive I recall the first (and last) time I drove one back in the 1970s, I was so impressed with road feel.

    Of course, the bike sitting next to it is kinda cool too

    I guess if you need a car for your situation... you need a car.

    One thing you might think about is trying to share your car with your network of family and friends. Perhaps others need a ride once in a while or someone needs to borrow it. That will keep the car moving so the battery doesn't run down. It also raises the likelihood that at some future time when you are carfree again, you might be hit up your friends for a ride.

    I don't completely understand why we cannot have networks of friends that share items commonly, but rarely used... like cars, tools, that sort of thing. (This seldom seems to happen though...)

    Where do you get these videos? I seem to be able to waste a lot of time just watching them over and over. What is that?

  3. #3
    It's got electrolytes! chucky's Avatar
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    Sad to see animals made part of our unsustainable way of living. We should be trying to live more like them, not adopting them into our homes and then wreaking destruction on their behalf. Your dog is not forcing you, you are forcing your dog.

    However, you do have a point about chauffeuring sick, elderly, and/or disabled/undeveloped people or children. I've been considering this for some time myself and it seems inevitable that I'll eventually need to get a bike designed for carrying passengers such as one of these:



    It's a far better and more useful investment than a car. Especially since most US cities have door to door transit services for disabled and elderly folks who are unable to use normal transit on foot. So in that case even the passenger bike is really more of a luxury than a need (and a personal car is an unimaginable luxury that we, the human race, cannot afford).

    P.S. Isn't that the kind of car you've been lusting after for years? Are you sure you didn't get it cause you just want it as opposed to for the sick/helpless people and animals?
    Last edited by chucky; 10-24-10 at 06:56 PM.

  4. #4
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerv View Post
    If it's any consolation, that Austin mini is a really nice car to drive I recall the first (and last) time I drove one back in the 1970s, I was so impressed with road feel.

    Of course, the bike sitting next to it is kinda cool too

    I guess if you need a car for your situation... you need a car.

    One thing you might think about is trying to share your car with your network of family and friends. Perhaps others need a ride once in a while or someone needs to borrow it. That will keep the car moving so the battery doesn't run down. It also raises the likelihood that at some future time when you are carfree again, you might be hit up your friends for a ride.

    I don't completely understand why we cannot have networks of friends that share items commonly, but rarely used... like cars, tools, that sort of thing. (This seldom seems to happen though...)

    Where do you get these videos? I seem to be able to waste a lot of time just watching them over and over. What is that?
    They have things like this in Korea except they are privatized. For example, everyone has small homes which makes having a movie night difficult. Instead of going to a theater you can rent a private room with couches, a projector, and surround sound for about $5 a person and choose or bring any movie you want. You can also bring in your own pizza and beer! For bicycle tools there are Bike co-ops, not here, but in the US. Cars are just something that have not received the same treatment as some other commodities.

  5. #5
    Single-serving poster electrik's Avatar
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    It's emotionally unhealthy to hold onto your old pet for too long. Some people say it is selfish, the animal is suffering and they're probably right. It seems right to try everything, but you have to wonder for whose benefit all that is. Never again would I prolong it after being told and figuring it's over - and i've pulled out all the stops - maybe you need more time.

    Not saying you need to let go tomorrow, but it seems it is coming very soon. So, wish you best of luck.

  6. #6
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    It's emotionally unhealthy to hold onto your old pet for too long. Some people say it is selfish, the animal is suffering and they're probably right. It seems right to try everything, but you have to wonder for whose benefit all that is. Never again would I prolong it after being told and figuring it's over - and i've pulled out all the stops - maybe you need more time.

    Not saying you need to let go tomorrow, but it seems it is coming very soon. So, wish you best of luck.
    +1 to this. Also, when the dog eventually breath its last breath, is a mini-cooper from the 1970s really the best car to own to transport other sickly or infirm family and friends?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by folder fanatic View Post
    Here is the thread that I will more fully discuss my changes in primary transportation means. I have decided to return to driving and private vehicle ownership. Right now in a part time capacity, later more full time. To understand the whys, let me illustrate the changes in my life.

    I have always been a real supporter and rider of cycling as a primary means of getting around. I never owned a car or other private motor vehicle of any type. I do have a valid driver’s license for my state and had one since I was 20 years old. I paid for my driving lessons & exams myself. I occasionally rented or hired cars as needed. My preferred method of transport was always and still is my bikes. Unfortunately, circumstances have been and will continue to happen in my personal and professional life that is pushing me back toward driving.

    First off, I would like to introduce you to my dog, Zero (see photos below). He was the final straw in going back to driving. He injured his back recently and became lame. The original orthodox veterinarian I consulted wanted to perform surgery immediately, even going so far as to suggest to put him down. I did not want to go the surgery route-especially the other one suggested-until I exhausted all other options. In order to exercise these options, I have to go to a distant holistic clinic about 35 min.-1 hour by car, 2 or more hours by bus/train, or I don’t know really how long by bike to get to this particular clinic. And the bike trip might do far more damage to his spine as I must keep the dog calm and immobilized during transport-roadways are not too smooth and very noisy around here. Not to mention not making him too nervous or excitable in the process.

    I am renting a car for this particular problem I am dealing with my dog as I did for myself earlier this year. But then I realize there have been and will continue to be the need for a privately owned car because of the huge distance I must always cross when I do anything major here in the Los Angeles basin especially with other people who cannot drive or take public transit. Car sharing is not much an doable option as the cars are located in faraway locations (the nearest ones are around 7 miles away) from where I am located-never mind the. run on cars during high demand periods like transit strikes. I realise that there will be times that I need to chauffeur other sick, elderly, infants, the temporary or permanently disabled people, my own and/or other people's pets, or even myself when I cannot ride a bike for a good reason.

    My bicycles will still be my “number one” transportation option I will still vigorously support and do myself as much as possible even after the arrival of one (and only one) new small car (no large ones acceptable by me (see examples of the type of cars I grew up in and love below with my bikes) that is just A to B transportation for the times that my faithful bicycles cannot do as well. I will grudgingly support it mechanically and insured in a manner that is safe to myself, my passengers, and everybody else out on the road. I do take some solace and some measure of comfort in viewing videos like the one from Copenhagen showing smaller cars and bicycles both sharing space. These vehicles are used by this city’s residents that reflect each person’s best needs being addressed by the use of one over the other at different times for different activities..

    I leave you with this wonderful video that helped me see that I can return to driving responsibly and not leave my bikes behind. I humbly ask for your well wishes for my dog’s speedy recovery. Thank you for over 5 years of unconditional support!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5izmhMvLmw&NR=1
    Don't know if you got one of the old Coops or not but they were cool back in the day.
    They put the whole engine in sideways, radiator and all.

    Sorry about Zero, I hope he will get better and that the treatment you are getting him works.
    Many others might not realize how difficult getting around in the LA area can be but I do. I did hospice work in the inland Empire for a few years and I still do some relief hospice work now. I realize some might think these people are going to die anyway so why drive to all these different places? But I am not willing to pull the plug on them just yet and will try to bring as much comfort to them and their families when asked. And yes when possible I do ride my bike when time permits.

    Good luck on your change and I hope you find your decision helps you to do something for others.

  8. #8
    Dare to be weird!
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    Quote Originally Posted by folder fanatic View Post
    I humbly ask for your well wishes for my dog's speedy recovery.
    Several years ago my partner and I adopted a rescue dog. We could tell he had an unusually gentle and empathic personality but many physical things were wrong. He had orthopedic problems and became more and more lame. He would often snarl when approached or picked up. Sometimes he would cry out for no apparent reason. He often woke up with nightmares. His limp got worse and worse and it wasn't long until he was barely getting around by balancing on his two front legs. Our well meaning family and friends gently suggested that the dog was too old and hopeless and should be put down. But my partner persevered and found a vet who was willing to diagnose the specific problem (and not just get stuck at the point of saying the dog was hopeless and could be put down cheaply). The vet gave long odds against the knee operations being successful. Yeah, yeah, waste of money and all that. But y'know what? It worked!! Within a few weeks our little Pomeranian companion was running and barking like a puppy, the pain was apparently gone, the nightmares slowly faded away. No one knows how old he really is, but before the operation he looked like he was 15 and after the operation he looked more like 7. That was two years ago. So far so good...

    Yeah, sometimes hopeless is hopeless, I know that from losing a young wife to ovarian cancer. But when someone decides to dig in and fight, I'm all cheers and hoorays. Best wishes for your Zero!!

  9. #9
    Pedaled too far. Artkansas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chucky View Post
    However, you do have a point about chauffeuring sick, elderly, and/or disabled/undeveloped people or children.
    I've heard enough people saying that transporting animals to the vet was a problem. Seems like that smacks of a business opportunity. Paratransit for pets and their owners.
    "He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjforrestal View Post
    I don't care if you are on a unicycle, as long as you're not using a motor to get places you get props from me. We're here to support each other. Share ideas, and motivate one another to actually keep doing it.

  10. #10
    It's got electrolytes! chucky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artkansas View Post
    I've heard enough people saying that transporting animals to the vet was a problem. Seems like that smacks of a business opportunity. Paratransit for pets and their owners.
    Yeah after reading this thread I've been researching how I can prepare myself for this eventuality. I just can't stand the idea of not being able to help those in need. Work trikes (ie Christiania), pedicabs, and the like seem to be a good solution for flat areas and short distances, but for the type of terrain faced by most Americans it seems one really needs the lighter weight and versatility of a "Long John"/Bakfiets style bike. Organic Engine's "Long Juan" has a cargo area which can be customized up to 8 feet long:




    With a 5-6 foot beam it seems one should be able to easily mount a stretcher on top for infirm patients sorta like this:


    In fact, I'm thinking about buying one now even though I don't need it yet because I'm sick and tired of hearing people say "eventually you'll have to get a car" and acting like my decision to ride a bike is a decision to be a selfish loner, incapable of treating others like family (whether they be actual family or just those in need of family-like help).

  11. #11
    Senior Member crazybikerchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerv View Post
    One thing you might think about is trying to share your car with your network of family and friends. Perhaps others need a ride once in a while or someone needs to borrow it. That will keep the car moving so the battery doesn't run down. It also raises the likelihood that at some future time when you are carfree again, you might be hit up your friends for a ride.

    I don't completely understand why we cannot have networks of friends that share items commonly, but rarely used... like cars, tools, that sort of thing. (This seldom seems to happen though...)
    It seems the idea is good in theory but has too many possibilities for resentments and broken friendships. People that don't care of tools the same we would take care of our own tools.

    As an example, when I owned a car 15 years ago, I lent it to some acquaintances for a weekend in exchange for a ride to and pickup from the airport. They said they just wanted to go camping just outside of town. They ended up driving the car a whopping 800 km, I don't even think they filled the tank back up, and re-lent the car to others without my prior knowledge so that when I called for a pickup from the airport, the car was not available!

    Unfortunately it usually only takes one person taking advantage of a situation to convince people its best to avoid that situation entirely.

    Or on the other hand I have had people I thought were good friends refuse to lend a seldom-used tool. Which causes resentment too.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Ekdog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerv View Post
    I don't completely understand why we cannot have networks of friends that share items commonly, but rarely used... like cars, tools, that sort of thing. (This seldom seems to happen though...)
    Berkeley, California, always seems to be one step ahead of the rest of the world. They have a tool lending library.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazybikerchick View Post
    It seems the idea is good in theory but has too many possibilities for resentments and broken friendships. People that don't care of tools the same we would take care of our own tools.

    As an example, when I owned a car 15 years ago, I lent it to some acquaintances for a weekend in exchange for a ride to and pickup from the airport. They said they just wanted to go camping just outside of town. They ended up driving the car a whopping 800 km, I don't even think they filled the tank back up, and re-lent the car to others without my prior knowledge so that when I called for a pickup from the airport, the car was not available!

    Unfortunately it usually only takes one person taking advantage of a situation to convince people its best to avoid that situation entirely.

    Or on the other hand I have had people I thought were good friends refuse to lend a seldom-used tool. Which causes resentment too.
    One of the best pieces of advice I have ever received was, never loan anything to anyone you can’t afford to lose. If you get it back you will be happily surprised and if you don’t you won’t be angry.
    The real problem is as you expressed, many or even most people don’t take care of their tools, bikes, cars or homes like an owner would. Go to any car rental agency and look at the new cars compared to privately owned ones at a work place parking lot.
    The other problem is we live in a litigious society so if you loan someone your car you are responsible for any damage they cause. If they are insured fine but if the damage exceeds their insurance, you are responsible.

    It is the difference between living in a world of, “I don’t understand why we can’t,” and a world of, “that is the way things are.”

  14. #14
    In the right lane gerv's Avatar
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    Maybe tools are in a different category than cars. I recall years ago, though, sharing tools and rides with my extended family. We'd specifically purchase tools that other members didn't have and tried to keep the network alive. It was kind of patchwork and didn't survive too long, but it was probably the only way we could have attempted some car and house repairs.

    As for vehicles, the case is probably even worse. But the goal of an extended family or group of friends owning, say, a truck to be used when needed... that seems pretty reasonable to me. There should be some models around that describe a system that would work... without having to pay big rental fees every time you needed to haul a load of cargo somewhere.

  15. #15
    Senior Member crazybikerchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerv View Post
    As for vehicles, the case is probably even worse. But the goal of an extended family or group of friends owning, say, a truck to be used when needed... that seems pretty reasonable to me. There should be some models around that describe a system that would work... without having to pay big rental fees every time you needed to haul a load of cargo somewhere.
    Car ownership and operation is expensive! So I think it could work but the ground rules need to be clear to everyone up front. What happens if the vehicle is in an at-fault collision? Will the person operating the vehicle then have to pay the differential cost in insurance year after year? What about cosmetics? Will the other users care if Bob's bad parking job scratches the body? Will Bob have to repair it?

    Fairest would be to apportion all non-fault related costs to everyone based on mileage, which would involve keeping a mileage log. Example - tires need to be replaced, its based on the mileage log. Someone knocks off the mirror - they pay (its not based on something wearing out). Formal car-share programs charge based on mileage AND time because even if the vehicle is parked its not fair if someone else can't use it. It would be easier in an informal system to skip the time costs but perhaps institute a rule - if the truck is meant to be used to haul cargo, no extended usage (ie taking it on a vacation)

  16. #16
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazybikerchick View Post
    Car ownership and operation is expensive! So I think it could work but the ground rules need to be clear to everyone up front. What happens if the vehicle is in an at-fault collision? Will the person operating the vehicle then have to pay the differential cost in insurance year after year? What about cosmetics? Will the other users care if Bob's bad parking job scratches the body? Will Bob have to repair it?

    Fairest would be to apportion all non-fault related costs to everyone based on mileage, which would involve keeping a mileage log. Example - tires need to be replaced, its based on the mileage log. Someone knocks off the mirror - they pay (its not based on something wearing out). Formal car-share programs charge based on mileage AND time because even if the vehicle is parked its not fair if someone else can't use it. It would be easier in an informal system to skip the time costs but perhaps institute a rule - if the truck is meant to be used to haul cargo, no extended usage (ie taking it on a vacation)
    Or you could skip all of this and call a taxi...

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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppinger View Post
    Or you could skip all of this and call a taxi...
    Because that isn't like renting a car like the OP started to do?

  18. #18
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    Because that isn't like renting a car like the OP started to do?
    My point exactly. Bikerchick was pointing out the complexities of car share programs and the need for lots of legal documents in case of an accident. I was just pointing out that you could call a cab, such as for the OP when he needs to take the dog to the vet, and let the cab company worry about the legal issues for you. Even when renting a car you have to make the pretty tough decision of whether or not to purchase the extra insurance. This is where the rental companies typically over charge you and make a lot of their profits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppinger View Post
    My point exactly. Bikerchick was pointing out the complexities of car share programs and the need for lots of legal documents in case of an accident. I was just pointing out that you could call a cab, such as for the OP when he needs to take the dog to the vet, and let the cab company worry about the legal issues for you. Even when renting a car you have to make the pretty tough decision of whether or not to purchase the extra insurance. This is where the rental companies typically over charge you and make a lot of their profits.
    It has been my experience that cabs cost a lot if you are using them on a regular basis as the OP is. A lot more than renting a car. You are in effect paying for the car, driver and his insurance in the car fare.

    Like you I am suspect about car share programs but because I don't believe you can trust others or the ability of others to live up to their end of the bargain. I think that is why they don't tend to work very often or they tend to fall apart sooner than expected. In our area cabs start the meter on the way to you and keep it running till you are through. They sure will not be worth wile you go into the doctor and they will take their own sweet time getting back to you if you call after you are done. And then they will charge you as soon as they receive the call. The best deal we have on a cab is one that uses Scion xBs. They only charge you a dollar to come get you and then whatever a mile or minute to get you somewhere.

  20. #20
    Senior Member zeppinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    It has been my experience that cabs cost a lot if you are using them on a regular basis as the OP is. A lot more than renting a car. You are in effect paying for the car, driver and his insurance in the car fare.

    Like you I am suspect about car share programs but because I don't believe you can trust others or the ability of others to live up to their end of the bargain. I think that is why they don't tend to work very often or they tend to fall apart sooner than expected. In our area cabs start the meter on the way to you and keep it running till you are through. They sure will not be worth wile you go into the doctor and they will take their own sweet time getting back to you if you call after you are done. And then they will charge you as soon as they receive the call. The best deal we have on a cab is one that uses Scion xBs. They only charge you a dollar to come get you and then whatever a mile or minute to get you somewhere.
    Ya, I remember taxis being expensive in SOCA too when I lived there. It would cost something like $30 just to get to downtown San Diego from La Jolla where I was living. That was close to 15 miles though and I was assuming that the OP was using a vet that was a bit closer to his house. How often does he have to take the dog to the vet? If his house was close and he had to go once a week (which would be a lot) I thought it might be cheaper to use a taxi. If he has to go more often or further then that might not work.

    For the majority of us car free folks who only have to use a tax once a month or so its not too big a deal. Car rental can also be a pain for anyone under 25 yrs old or who have to travel far just to pick up the car. I never meant to give the impression that I was anti car sharing. I used my girl friends Zipcar on a few occasions and they were always clean and full of gas. They were located right on campus too! I have also shared a car with one of my sisters when we were roomates. It was actually her car but since I didn't have one would buy her a full tank of gas when I needed to borrow it. No big deal and she liked the exchange.

    Edit: Oh also, I use taxis all the time now. In Seoul the price is $2 for the first 5-10 minutes and then about $ 0.10 every minute after that. You can take a taxi across the entire city (which is huge) for about $20. Taxi prices are set by the government.

  21. #21
    Senior Member JayButros's Avatar
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    I love Dogs. Whatever decision you make, I know it will be in Zero's best interest.

    I was an Urban Studies major at my University and I'm familiar with CA's and LA's mass transit problems. I'm impressed that you're able to use bikes as much as you do.

    The best thing I ever did towards increasing the practicality of using a bike as my major means of transportation was leave the suburbs. Richmond VA is a great place to ride full time, many people think I'm lying when I mention my average fuel cost each month is $30.

  22. #22
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    folder, the most important thing you have to remember is you have to do what is best for you and your sense of loyalty to your pet and friends. No one else has either the right or the privilege to question your motives after than long effort you have put in to fight the fight is a place where the fight is harder to do. If they do or if they chide you for what you have to do they aren’t friends or their opinion isn’t worth listening to in the first place.

    While we have disagreed on things in the past I believe you were committed to a car free life style as much as anyone here. I know you were willing to sacrifice more than I have to do your part. There are times when I think I care more for my dog than I do for some of my neighbors. She never questions me; she always welcomes me and always shows gratitude for anything I do for her.

    No one can make a decision like the one you are making for you and no one has the right to second guess you.

  23. #23
    Senior Member crazybikerchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeppinger View Post
    Or you could skip all of this and call a taxi...
    There are no taxis where I live and most places will not deliver here, so its every person to their own pick up truck, or figure out some informal way of sharing.

  24. #24
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazybikerchick View Post
    Car ownership and operation is expensive! So I think it could work but the ground rules need to be clear to everyone up front. What happens if the vehicle is in an at-fault collision? Will the person operating the vehicle then have to pay the differential cost in insurance year after year? What about cosmetics? Will the other users care if Bob's bad parking job scratches the body? Will Bob have to repair it?

    Fairest would be to apportion all non-fault related costs to everyone based on mileage, which would involve keeping a mileage log. Example - tires need to be replaced, its based on the mileage log. Someone knocks off the mirror - they pay (its not based on something wearing out). Formal car-share programs charge based on mileage AND time because even if the vehicle is parked its not fair if someone else can't use it. It would be easier in an informal system to skip the time costs but perhaps institute a rule - if the truck is meant to be used to haul cargo, no extended usage (ie taking it on a vacation)
    What is needed is an easy way to legally protect individuals engaged in a shared venture from liability. Oh wait--we already have that! It's called a corporation. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to establish a corporation whose sole purpose is to own an automobile.

    But it should be a simple matter for states to pass a law that would facilitate car-sharing corporations or car co-ops. What is needed is some way to easily set up a limited corporation that would own the assets and liabilities associated with the car.

    This would be a great project for some alternative transportation advocacy group. Once a law establishing car-sharing corporations was passed in one state, it could be used as a model law for the other states.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  25. #25
    Senior Member crazybikerchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    What is needed is an easy way to legally protect individuals engaged in a shared venture from liability. Oh wait--we already have that! It's called a corporation. Unfortunately, there's no easy way to establish a corporation whose sole purpose is to own an automobile.
    Car co-op corporations already exist. Autoshare, ZipCar - these have established themselves in metropolitan areas. An informal system - which I'd love to hear of examples where this has worked for people - may work for areas where there is not a large enough demand for a corporation to service but simply a group of neighbours interested in reducing their own expenses and footprint.

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