Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-10-10, 06:20 PM   #1
ezdoesit
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
ezdoesit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Jersey
Bikes: Fuji Touring 2008
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Holidays Pain at the gas pump

Well here is just another reason to get around on your bicycle.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/pain-pump-12363099

I feel sorry for all the people that have to use their car for transportation
Just in time for the Holidays I wonder how that happened.
I am retired and am car Lite and really feel for those you have to use the car.
I very seldom use my car and love getting around with the bicycle.
ezdoesit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-10, 06:53 PM   #2
gerv 
In the right lane
 
gerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Des Moines
Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed
Posts: 9,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes but this happens all the time. Price spikes sharply. People react. Price goes down, the climbs slowly so that they don't even notice.

In reality, most people should find gas at 3 or 4 dollars a gallon pretty reasonable. It's a lot cheaper than just about anywhere else in the known universe.

Although, every time we do have a spike or even a price milestone ($3...), more people take to their bicycles.
gerv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-10, 07:00 PM   #3
ezdoesit
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
ezdoesit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Jersey
Bikes: Fuji Touring 2008
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerv View Post
Yes but this happens all the time. Price spikes sharply. People react. Price goes down, the climbs slowly so that they don't even notice.

In reality, most people should find gas at 3 or 4 dollars a gallon pretty reasonable. It's a lot cheaper than just about anywhere else in the known universe.



Although, every time we do have a spike or even a price milestone ($3...), more people take to their bicycles.
Yeah but maybe this time they will stay with their bicycle. and or go with mass transit.
ezdoesit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-10, 08:08 PM   #4
wahoonc
Senior Member
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Posts: 16,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezdoesit View Post
Yeah but maybe this time they will stay with their bicycle. and or go with mass transit.
I believe it will take more than $3 a gallon. Unfortunately I suspect most people will bankrupt themselves before they will go away from the car in droves. Also unfortunately a sizable portion of the country doesn't have working mass transit. Once you leave most major cities (with the possible exception of some college towns) mass transit ceases to exist in any usable form.

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-10, 09:14 PM   #5
zoltani
sniffin' glue
 
zoltani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Posts: 3,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Pasadena mother: "It's rough you know, but we just kind of base our budget around gas. We just need to get gas first and deal with everything else later."
zoltani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-10, 09:25 PM   #6
B. Carfree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 6,200
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltani View Post
Pasadena mother: "It's rough you know, but we just kind of base our budget around gas. We just need to get gas first and deal with everything else later."
That is one of the saddest things I have read this week. The NY Times had an article about gasoline prices today that said Americans will spend nearly 25% more on gasoline this month than during December, 2009. I found that to be amazing considering the core rate of inflation is near zero.

Oh well. No addiction is ever easy to get clean of.
B. Carfree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-10, 09:41 PM   #7
wahoonc
Senior Member
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Posts: 16,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
That is one of the saddest things I have read this week. The NY Times had an article about gasoline prices today that said Americans will spend nearly 25% more on gasoline this month than during December, 2009. I found that to be amazing considering the core rate of inflation is near zero.

Oh well. No addiction is ever easy to get clean of.

I wonder about that? Gas is up about 32.5 cents a gallon over last year, that is roughly a 12% increase. Not sure where they are getting their 25% figure from. But price swings are part of the peak oil scenario and unfortunately in many households in America gas is a major expense. Every time gas goes up past a certain point that is money that is removed from the regular economy. In our family we are more fortunate than most, my fuel costs are covered by my employer (but they ***** constantly about fuel costs and fuel economy) my wife drives 130 miles one way to work, but only makes the round trip 4-5 times a month, and doesn't always have to drive.

If oil continues to rise, we will see a dip in the economic "recovery", airlines will take another hit as will quite a few other businesses that are fuel dependent. But again this is what peak oil looks like.

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-10, 11:28 PM   #8
gerv 
In the right lane
 
gerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Des Moines
Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed
Posts: 9,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
If oil continues to rise, we will see a dip in the economic "recovery", airlines will take another hit as will quite a few other businesses that are fuel dependent. But again this is what peak oil looks like.

Aaron
Yes, and that's why most countries would sit down and devise a 5 and 10 year plan to at least try to deal with the fact that money spent on oil is virtually immediately sent out of the country and , according to some Wikileaks messages last week, almost certainly goes... indirectly... very indirectly... to pay for the terrorist activity we see throughout the Middle East and for which we already have spent a mountain of money trying to defeat.

Of course, that's unlikely to happen when Mobil Oil is a major contributor to your election campaign.
gerv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-10, 05:24 AM   #9
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post

If oil continues to rise, we will see a dip in the economic "recovery", airlines will take another hit as will quite a few other businesses that are fuel dependent. But again this is what peak oil looks like.

Aaron
I don't know if it's peak oil because OPEC cut production by 4.2 million barrels a day since 2009! To make matters worse, the Federal Reserve printed 600 billion dollars in order to create inflation, hoping to help our exports! The result of this is causing commodities to skyrocket and the dollar to fall. Our imported gas is going to get a lot more expensive in the very near future.



http://www.bnet.com/blog/clean-energ...n-in-2010/1028
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....more-inflation
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-10, 08:49 AM   #10
wahoonc
Senior Member
 
wahoonc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Posts: 16,687
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
I don't know if it's peak oil because OPEC cut production by 4.2 million barrels a day since 2009! To make matters worse, the Federal Reserve printed 600 billion dollars in order to create inflation, hoping to help our exports! The result of this is causing commodities to skyrocket and the dollar to fall. Our imported gas is going to get a lot more expensive in the very near future.



http://www.bnet.com/blog/clean-energ...n-in-2010/1028
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....more-inflation
Did they cut oil production or can they not meet production? No one really knows how much oil the Saudi's really have, nor what their true production rates are.

I am sure the federal reserve actions aren't helping. But all we can do as individuals is prepare for the worst, be flexible and hope for the best. There is so much manipulations of markets going on right now that I doubt anybody really has a clue as to what is going to happen next.

Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
_Nicodemus

"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
_krazygluon
wahoonc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-10, 09:33 AM   #11
Fizzaly
Stealing Spokes since 82'
 
Fizzaly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Boy-z, Ideeeho
Bikes: The always reliable kuwie
Posts: 1,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Last weekend was the first time in months ive even looked at gas prices, was with g/f when she filled up her car i hadn't realized it has crept back up to 3bucks again.
Fizzaly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-10, 08:25 AM   #12
ezdoesit
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
ezdoesit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Jersey
Bikes: Fuji Touring 2008
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzaly View Post
Last weekend was the first time in months ive even looked at gas prices, was with g/f when she filled up her car i hadn't realized it has crept back up to 3bucks again.
Yeah went by the Sunoco yesterday and $3.00 a gallon here for regular. WOW!!
ezdoesit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-10, 09:06 AM   #13
poormanbiking
Human most of the time
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Bikes:
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's funny when you consider oil and coal didn't have much use 200 years ago and now people die over it. I know plenty of people who value their car over their loved ones.
poormanbiking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-10, 09:58 AM   #14
Fizzaly
Stealing Spokes since 82'
 
Fizzaly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Boy-z, Ideeeho
Bikes: The always reliable kuwie
Posts: 1,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Even when i had a car and drove the price of gas never bothered me, the only thing that has gotten to me, was two years ago or so when we had that first skyrocket in prices, is why the hell is diesel more a gallon than gasoline. I mean really for the most part diesel is almost a byproduct of refining gas, never made sense to me. I was working at kenworth dealership and as soon as diesel went above 4bucks a gallon (in boise idaho) our business literally fell off a cliff. My G/F gets mad at me sometimes when i tease her about, she came home yesterday whining about how much it cost to fill up her little kia i just smiled and said "that sucks" and i guess that was not the wise thing to say.
Fizzaly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-10, 05:01 PM   #15
zoltani
sniffin' glue
 
zoltani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Posts: 3,183
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Paid $3.17 for diesel today, still more expensive than gasoline. Good thing you can run it off veggie oil if wanted.....
zoltani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-10, 05:55 PM   #16
Fizzaly
Stealing Spokes since 82'
 
Fizzaly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Boy-z, Ideeeho
Bikes: The always reliable kuwie
Posts: 1,875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoltani View Post
Paid $3.17 for diesel today, still more expensive than gasoline. Good thing you can run it off veggie oil if wanted.....
Technically if you wanted you can run most diesels off water, but it wont last very long at all
Fizzaly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-10, 08:05 PM   #17
gerv 
In the right lane
 
gerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Des Moines
Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed
Posts: 9,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fizzaly View Post
Technically if you wanted you can run most diesels off water, but it wont last very long at all
When the price of water goes North of $3 a gallon, I predict things will really start to go downhill.
gerv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-10, 12:30 AM   #18
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Bikes:
Posts: 6,826
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
I was wondering what happened to all the electric cars that were to enter the market? Did the sticker price make them only concept cars?
Dahon.Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-10, 02:34 AM   #19
miamimike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Bikes:
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here in Miami, Diesel has hit from 3.20-3.30 /gal in my neighborhood. Having owned Diesel Engined Cars for the last decade, I often wonder about that Price Disparity also(considering how much cheaper it is to make the Gasoline). A year ago, Diesel was priced equal with UL Regular, then I noticed it creeping up and now its priced equal with Supreme UL. Or even a few pennies more! Crazy. Thank God I don't fill my VW Diesel up often.

Last edited by miamimike; 12-16-10 at 02:35 AM. Reason: sp
miamimike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-10, 04:52 AM   #20
chewybrian 
"Florida Man"
 
chewybrian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: East Florida
Bikes: '66 Raleigh Superbe, 80 Nishiki Maxima, 07 Gary Fisher Utopia, 09 Surly LHT
Posts: 1,560
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
I think the focus on the price of gas is too sharp. People should think twice, 3 or 4 times, about the total cost of owning an auto. At $3 a galllon, and a meager 20 mpg, gas is 'only' 15 cents a mile. But, the IRS says it's more like 50 cents a mile, all costs considered.

It's that total cost that puts the poor in 'working poor'. If they could only set a budget on paper, with the assumption that a car is an option and not a necessity, they would quickly come to the conclusion that owning a car is a very bad choice for many if not most.

At 1000 miles a month, the total cost is roughly $500 a month. What kind of a life changer is that sum for the working poor, who may not even have that much discretionary spending money (with a clunker in the mix)? That money could get them out of an apartment and into a starter home, or fund a decent retirement, a college education for their kids or themselves, help them to start a small business, make a worthwhile and impactful donation to charity...
__________________
Campione Del Mondo Immaginario

Last edited by chewybrian; 12-16-10 at 04:57 AM.
chewybrian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-10, 05:13 AM   #21
Caretaker
Heretic
 
Caretaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Bikes: Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
Posts: 1,562
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 153 Post(s)
Greetings from Ireland.

If it will make you guys feel any better I've been checking on the cheapest diesel price in Dublin.

We have our prices listed in Litres. 1 litre = approx. 0.22 gals.

Currently the cheapest price in Dublin as of 15th Dec. is €1.329 per litre.

After doing my calculations into gallons and into US$ I got an equivalent price of roughly $8 dollars per gallon.
Petrol/gasoline is taxed slighly more so is slightly more expensive.

Note: Fuel prices in Ireland are not expensive by european standards.

Happy holidays.

Last edited by Caretaker; 12-16-10 at 05:37 AM.
Caretaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-10, 05:30 AM   #22
newenglandbike
Is Right
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston
Bikes:
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewybrian View Post
I think the focus on the price of gas is too sharp. People should think twice, 3 or 4 times, about the total cost of owning an auto. At $3 a galllon, and a meager 20 mpg, gas is 'only' 15 cents a mile. But, the IRS says it's more like 50 cents a mile, all costs considered.

It's that total cost that puts the poor in 'working poor'. If they could only set a budget on paper, with the assumption that a car is an option and not a necessity, they would quickly come to the conclusion that owning a car is a very bad choice for many if not most.

At 1000 miles a month, the total cost is roughly $500 a month. What kind of a life changer is that sum for the working poor, who may not even have that much discretionary spending money (with a clunker in the mix)? That money could get them out of an apartment and into a starter home, or fund a decent retirement, a college education for their kids or themselves, help them to start a small business, make a worthwhile and impactful donation to charity...
And that's not even accounting for externalized costs. The price of owning/operating automobiles also includes contributing heavily to localized air pollution, decreasing everyone else's safety, decreasing crop yields, contributing to water pollution, infrastructure damage, noise pollution, and cancer rates, and playing a role in creating in urban sprawl & global warming.
newenglandbike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-10, 12:41 PM   #23
Roody
Sophomoric Member
 
Roody's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dancing in Lansing
Bikes:
Posts: 23,386
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Gas (in the US) has never before been as high as $3/gallon in the month of December. There ae concerns that this will stall economic recovery, as some consumers will be forced to cut back holiday spending in order to pay for gas.

The news pundits say the main reason for high gas prices is that a refinery in Nova Scotia is out of service. Does anybody else find that hard to believe?
__________________

"Think Outside the Cage"
Roody is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-10, 05:24 PM   #24
sauerwald
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Bikes: Bianchi San Remo - set up as a utility bike, Peter Mooney Road bike, Peter Mooney commute bike,Dahon Folder,Schwinn Paramount Tandem
Posts: 1,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewybrian View Post
I think the focus on the price of gas is too sharp. People should think twice, 3 or 4 times, about the total cost of owning an auto. At $3 a galllon, and a meager 20 mpg, gas is 'only' 15 cents a mile. But, the IRS says it's more like 50 cents a mile, all costs considered.
This is still only scratching the surface - now count in the high cost of roads and roadway maintenance, the fact that in most of our cities 50% of the developed property is devoted to the automobile (parking, roads etc), the health costs from the pollution that is belched out, the cost of 40,000 lives in the US each year (americans don't care about any other deaths, only americans count). All in all, we are paying a huge toll for our dependence on oil of which $3 per gallon isn't even enough for a down payment.
sauerwald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-10, 08:07 PM   #25
gerv 
In the right lane
 
gerv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Des Moines
Bikes: 1974 Huffy 3 speed
Posts: 9,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roody View Post
The news pundits say the main reason for high gas prices is that a refinery in Nova Scotia is out of service. Does anybody else find that hard to believe?
I couldn't find anything to verify this, but I did read that gasoline futures are down this week as demand has dropped a bit and stockpiles are up.

Luckily for the carfree, this kind of talk is academic. It really doesn't affect us that much. We just feel sorry for everyone else on the road.
gerv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:56 PM.