Newspaperguy

I can't speak for anyone else here, but I've been quite open about my car-light status and how I've made it work for me. The overall response has been one of understanding — an understanding I do not find elsewhere.
That's why we have the car-light people here. Those of us who prefer walking, cycling and transit but cannot completely get rid of the car can demonstrate something that is not an either/or lifestyle.

No two people have exactly the same needs and no two communities offer the same services. A solution for a single person in downtown Toronto is not the same as a solution for a family in the urban areas of southern California, and neither of those solutions will work for a retired couple in rural Nebraska or someone with mobility issues in Regina. If you have a method that works for you and your family, with or without a car, that's great.

harshbarj

Actually no. That is the rate of ownership, as per several dutch officials. I know the difference. I know Copenhagen itself, at least in 2009, had a rate of just 40%, so 60% of copenhageners do not own a car. These numbers have been quoted by not only dutch officials but many dutch based bicycle blogs and I'll honestly trust them over anyone from outside their country.

jfowler85

Hmmm....so, if you don't want to build your life around living car free, than don't do it.

Robert Foster

Then you will love this: https://www.dutchdailynews.com/commuting/

Caretaker

One in five Dutch see daily commuting the biggest energy sucker in everyday life. This score makes the Netherlands the lowest in Europe.

https://www.dutchdailynews.com/most-energetic-europeans/

This from a linked story in the same newspaper.

Doesn't look like the Dutch see commuting as a problem.

This forum has a fixation with the Netherlands as if it was the only country in Europe friendly to car free/lite living.

jjermzz

I heard they tax the crap out of imported cars in norway. You could pay more in taxes than the car. When I was modding civics and selling parts, a fellow Norwegian on the forums said a civic would cost about 80,000 USD. $50,000 in Taxes alone. Your taxed on the weight of the car, size of the engine, and amount of CO2 emissions it emits.

I just checked over at an embassy site and they have calculators to figure this out. So would be biking too if my $15,000 Civic Si in the US, would cost 3 times my annual pay in Norway.

sudo bike

I don't think it's too terribly unrealistic in any decent-sized city, for most folks. The only reason I haven't gone all the way so far is because my wife isn't willing to make the commitment, and I'm not going to force my lifestyle on her.

If by car-free you mean not owning a car, it's very feasible for me. I save so much money going bike-only as opposed to owning a car, that I can easily afford cab fare, transit fare, or even a car rental on occasions my bicycle won't get the job done (long distances, bad weather, etc). In my case, I see no point in spending gobs of money on a vehicle I only need to use on occasion. I just don't need it, and the convenience isn't worth the cost to me, as a person who doesn't have much money to budget, and I really think a lot more people could do so, could save a lot of financial hardship, and would end up happier. But not everyone, or even necessarily a majority. This, of course, is very personal; if you are in a situation where spending that money on a vehicle is put to good use, either because you need a car for something on a regular basis or you live in a place cycling isn't really feasible transportation, it makes sense to go with a car. Use the tools that work best for you.

I-Like-To-Bike

My guess is that the reason is that those who are so fixated on NL have gained their "knowledge" about NL life by reading each others' posts and a handful of articles on the Internet that match their own agenda. Personal experience is lacking.

Roody

Absolutely. From now on we should have a rule that only people who have lived in a country can comment on it.

I-Like-To-Bike

Better than a forum where posts based on wishful thinking or dreamy fantasies are routinely assumed/accepted as fact, and where anybody who posts a dissenting opinion is considered a "troll" by self appointed arbiters of "The Truth."

Roody

Better yet--a forum where the "trolls" actually published correct information in a useful manner, rather than ridiculing those they think are wrong.

For instance, you could have posted useful information about the topic of commuting in the Netherlands. Instead, You posted a criticism of individuals: "My guess is that the reason is that those who are so fixated on NL have gained their "knowledge" about NL life by reading each others' posts and a handful of articles on the Internet that match their own agenda. Personal experience is lacking."

Since you obviously know (or think you know) the "correct" answer, why not post your information/opinion and further the conversation? Why post a criticism that just stops the conversation in its tracks?

(OTOH, why do I even respond to your tomfoolery, which stops the conversation even more?)

XR2

Honestly if things continue for myself (and many others) car free will be the only way. Main reason I began coming here.

dcrowell

Let me keep my dreamy fantasies!

chipcom 

Seeing ILTB and Roody go at it makes me all teary-eyed remembering the "old days" in A&S.

Roody

Sorry about that! I'll try to do beter.

Caretaker

As a rough ball park figure a basic Honda Civic Si 3 door would cost you around $35,000 in Ireland. I won't even go into road tax, insurance and fuel tax.

I do have a car but it's a 1997 model originally bought used and spends 95% of its time sitting outside my house. I'd get rid of it if I was let.

chipcom 

If Serge wasn't banned we could have a nice, nostalgic 4-way.

dynodonn 

Ya never know, he might be reincarnated under another BF name, and you might have already conversed with him several times.

Artkansas 

I guess that makes this my semi-truck.

chipcom 

maybe...his walls of words have indeed been copied by some.

heidiinla

I love hearing about The Netherlands. I was actually born there and lived there for several years as a kid. I am in the process of trying to move there because of various reasons: one of which is that I am physically unable to ride my bike here during the hottest parts of the summer making being car-free impossible. Of course another is that all except one member of my family will be living there beginning next year. I come to the forums to read about positive things, not negative 'you can not do...'. If I wanted to hear negative, I'll just start a conversation with the vast majority of the people that I know.

One of the attractions of the bike forums (especially car-free) is that people give ideas on ways to make bike riding possible in a car-centered world/country. You don't really get that anywhere else. You ESPECIALLY do not get encouragement to go car-lit/car-free anywhere else. THAT is why people get praise here for going car-free/car-lite. They will not get that encouragement anywhere else. Please don't advocate taking that encouragement, ideas and advice away.

I-Like-To-Bike

Here is some information for the simple folks. Observing that many people are riding bicycles is NOT any evidence that the same people are "car free." Lots and lots of Dutch as well as other Northern European people own cars but use bicycles for short trips and commuting. Don't believe for a second that all people riding a bike a priori share your car-free/simple life/counter culture political, social or economic agenda.

BTW making an observation about posts that are obviously without any foundation but guesswork and illogical thought, is not criticism, it is an observation.

Caretaker

Best of luck with your move to The Netherlands. Hopefully when you are established you can give us some informed comment on car free living there.

There is a confusion on this forum between cycling and living without a car. Commuting alternatives to cars in Ireland and also in the UK is more likely to involve public transport than a bicycle. Cycle commuting in the capital Dublin where I live is 4.5% for cycling but would be many mutiples of that for bus and train.

National and international statistics on car ownership can be misleading as they are no indication of car usage. It's better to rely on informed local reporting such as you will be able to provide following your move.

Pedaleur

Look, Denmark has about 400 cars per 1000 people; that is easy to find.

That does _not_ mean that 600 out of 1000 are car free, or even that 600 don't "own" a car, since couples often share ownership.

By your calculations, my family would be 75% car free.

Caretaker

You've just proved the point I was making in the last paragraph of #73.