Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 69
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Suburban Sprawl in Georgia

    so I recorded the area where I'm currently living to show how this suburban sprawl design failed to include pedestrians and bicyclists

  2. #2
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    18,947
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusX View Post
    so I recorded the area where I'm currently living to show how this suburban sprawl design failed to include pedestrians and bicyclists
    What bicycle "design" was failed to be included? The streets on the video looked fine for cycling as is.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    What bicycle "design" was failed to be included? The streets on the video looked fine for cycling as is.
    cycling for commuting, not exercising, it's not fine when over 100 cars are forced to move to the other lane just so they won't hit you, it's not fine when you can't practice a car free lifestyle since this place is designed specifically for cars and not people, especially not fine when reliable public transportation does not exist.
    Last edited by MobiusX; 09-03-11 at 07:59 AM.

  4. #4
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    19,675
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The youtube link doesn't work for me. Is this the right video?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=120ykwgHL4M

    If it is the right video--I agree that it's real ugly sprawl and they probably devastated a lot of farmland and forests to put in a few ugly McMansions. With this crappy design, it's going to be hard for this community (if that's the right word) to sustain public transit and walking as transportation alternatives. A better alternative would have been to put the mansions close to the main highway with much smaller yards, and put a common open space behind them for gardens, recreation and wildlife habitat.
    Last edited by Roody; 09-03-11 at 08:48 AM.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  5. #5
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    19,675
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusX View Post
    cycling for commuting, not exercising, it's not fine when over 100 cars are forced to move to the other lane just so they won't hit you, it's not fine when you can't practice a car free lifestyle since this place is designed specifically for cars and not people, especially not fine when reliable public transportation does not exist.
    I agree with ILTB that the cycling looks easy-peasy in this area. The traffic in the video was light, and I doubt if you would have 100 cars overtaking you. I often have 100 cars overtake me on busy city streets, and I don't have a problem with that. It's what drivers are supposed to do when they encounter slower traffic.

    The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.

    From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  6. #6
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern california
    My Bikes
    Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I agree with ILTB that the cycling looks easy-peasy in this area. The traffic in the video was light, and I doubt if you would have 100 cars overtaking you. I often have 100 cars overtake me on busy city streets, and I don't have a problem with that. It's what drivers are supposed to do when they encounter slower traffic.

    The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.

    From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.
    The town is only 24 square miles, how far can anything be? The property boundaries were established well before cars. It started as a stagecoach stop, later a railroad stop but wasn't really designed because of being car centric because many of the roads came about when they had horses and wagons. The Mcmansions are about half of the size as they were between 1850 and 1872 if you get my drift. There are less that 19,000 people living in that town. It seems as if sprawl came about as a natural thing without the help of cars originally. . In this case like carpet baggers most of the complaints are coming from transported northerners at heart.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I agree with ILTB that the cycling looks easy-peasy in this area. The traffic in the video was light, and I doubt if you would have 100 cars overtaking you. I often have 100 cars overtake me on busy city streets, and I don't have a problem with that. It's what drivers are supposed to do when they encounter slower traffic.

    The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.

    From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.

    I already counted how many cars passed by me in only 50 minutes. 60 cars had to go to the other lane. I rode the bike to the library which took 1 hr and 10 minutes and at least 90 had to move to the other lane. It took me almost 3 hours to walk to the library.
    Last edited by MobiusX; 09-03-11 at 02:40 PM.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    The town is only 24 square miles, how far can anything be? The property boundaries were established well before cars. It started as a stagecoach stop, later a railroad stop but wasn't really designed because of being car centric because many of the roads came about when they had horses and wagons. The Mcmansions are about half of the size as they were between 1850 and 1872 if you get my drift. There are less that 19,000 people living in that town. It seems as if sprawl came about as a natural thing without the help of cars originally. . In this case like carpet baggers most of the complaints are coming from transported northerners at heart.
    Hey, you're back on my posts. I expected you to come. Welcome back.

  9. #9
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    18,947
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusX View Post
    I already counted how many cars passed by me in only 50 minutes. 60 cars had to go to the other lane. I rode the bike to the library which took 1 hr and 10 minutes and at least 90 had to move to the other lane.
    Are you serious? Cars passed me, whah, whah,whah!

    One word comment: BFD!

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    90 cars had to move to the other lane and increase the chances of getting into a car accident simply because 1 person was riding a bike???????????????? that's ridiculous, this is the quintessential suburban sprawl

  11. #11
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    18,947
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusX View Post
    cycling for commuting, not exercising, it's not fine when over 100 cars are forced to move to the other lane just so they won't hit you, it's not fine when you can't practice a car free lifestyle since this place is designed specifically for cars and not people, especially not fine when reliable public transportation does not exist.
    Baloney. The roads potrayed are fine for commuting, what the heck are you talking about? Where in the world have you been commuting on public streets and not have motor vehicles pass you? Presence or absence of reliable public transportation does not affect the ease of cycling on such quiet wide residential streets.

    BTW, I recommend that you clean your windshield before recording your next video show.

  12. #12
    Heretic Caretaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    My Bikes
    Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
    Posts
    1,111
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.

    No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.

    Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
    History is the future

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.

    No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.

    Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
    This is correct. The only information that these houses are giving you is that cars live there. Community here is nonexistent. There is nothing going on. It's like a war had just took place, but the people are still in the house because they don't know that it's over yet.

  14. #14
    In the right lane gerv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Des Moines
    My Bikes
    1974 Huffy 3 speed
    Posts
    8,901
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.

    No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.

    Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
    That what I noticed when I first moved to the US. Lots of cars, but suburbs has no sidewalks, no children around, no bicycles, no peds. The only time you see neighbours is when they are out on the riding mower doing the lawn

  15. #15
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern california
    My Bikes
    Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.

    No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.

    Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
    We live in a very diversified country with areas that would remind someone of the French countryside or an English Village and in some cases large cities. Some people prefer space and we happen to have the space they can live in. The area of Georgia that is being discussed was never a big city it was a small town or village that grew outside of its central section. People that live there most often move there for a slower quieter lifestyle and one the OP finds far too accepting. He has complained that children and adults have waved to him from their cars and they don’t even know him. Can you imagine? Someone even tried to strike up a small talk conversation in a store with the OP as if they had something to say he might be interested in. The problem here is not Sprawl but wanderlust. Most often a condition that afflicts younger adults.

    But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide

    They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
    If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I don’t know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.

  16. #16
    Heretic Caretaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    My Bikes
    Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
    Posts
    1,111
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide

    They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
    No I don't think there is anywhere in Ireland that has houses but no people to be seen. We don't have retirement villages. The better off go and live in their apartments in Spain to avoid the winter. Everybody else generally stays where they are.

    The area shown in the video looks attractive in a superficial way but it must get boring after a while. Doesn't look like there's much craic happening.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craic
    History is the future

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    We live in a very diversified country with areas that would remind someone of the French countryside or an English Village and in some cases large cities. Some people prefer space and we happen to have the space they can live in. The area of Georgia that is being discussed was never a big city it was a small town or village that grew outside of its central section. People that live there most often move there for a slower quieter lifestyle and one the OP finds far too accepting. He has complained that children and adults have waved to him from their cars and they don’t even know him. Can you imagine? Someone even tried to strike up a small talk conversation in a store with the OP as if they had something to say he might be interested in. The problem here is not Sprawl but wanderlust. Most often a condition that afflicts younger adults.

    But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide

    They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
    If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I don’t know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.

    trying to communicate with another person from inside a car is the equivalent of using a cup and string, it simply does not work, it just tells you that people get excited easily when they see other people, this place can make anybody feel lonely

  18. #18
    Heretic Caretaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    My Bikes
    Specialized Sirrus, Giant OCR3, Giant CRS3
    Posts
    1,111
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    No I don't think there is anywhere in Ireland that has houses but no people to be seen.
    Sorry I lie, we do have zombie housing estates. A couple of zombie banks also. But that's another story.
    History is the future

  19. #19
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Burlington Iowa
    My Bikes
    Vaterland and Ragazzi
    Posts
    18,947
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by MobiusX View Post
    ...this place can make anybody feel lonely
    The real bottom line issue for this thread, the OP's social/cultural problem with being a fish out of water in this location. I suggest this thread be moved to Foo or P&R because it has nothing to do with bicycles or living car free.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Wiggles_dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    My Bikes
    '87 Cannondale SR600, '13 Bob Jackson World Tour, 87' Schwinn High Sierra
    Posts
    141
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I feel you man. I used to live in Atlanta, GA. However, now I live in Salt Lake City and I can tell you that the sprawl is bad here too. In fact, I'd venture to say that suburbia anywhere has the same issues you are discussing here. The South is particularly car-centric due to its hot and humid weather and rural farmer upbringings.

    I grew up in a small town in SC and everyone just drives big SUVs and trucks a couple of miles on flat roads to work. Biking would make sense!

  21. #21
    Senior Member Cyclepup's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Southern CA
    Posts
    160
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Those streets looked very inviting to me...not much traffic at all. We have the same sprawl where we live and as many cars on our 2-lane roads. I just don't see the problem.

  22. #22
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern california
    My Bikes
    Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Caretaker View Post
    Sorry I lie, we do have zombie housing estates. A couple of zombie banks also. But that's another story.
    That is OK the Zombies like it. And Spain is almost as close to Ireland as Georgia is to me. I have lived in Some big cities and found them not to be my cup of tea. LA and Seattle were my home for for a few years during my early adult years. To me it was a bit like living in a pigeon coup or maybe an ant hill. Some of my family thrive on it. Some do not. One of my sisters lives on the Yakama Indian reservation and that is 180 degrees from how we grew up.

    We have our places like Spain however, many of our well healed New Yorkers have a second home in the Hamptons. In fact I have another sister who just moved to Long Island herself. She married a golf pro. Now they are looking for a place in Nicaragua to retire. Many small towns in the south fit the same purpose, quiet living, lower crime, less expensive housing so your retirement money goes farther.

    On the other hand my nephew is an urbanite at heart and would love to move to NYC.

    Cars didn't cause our urban and suburban sprawl. They gave people looking for a way out a tool to leave. LA had Suburban development well before cars and supported it through the Red Car system. The sprawl the OP is talking about would be exactly the same even without cars, because it started well before cars came to the area. The fact is it is not that difficult to see it as a place you can get around on a bike. check out the map and see if you couldn't get around without a car?

    http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Cartersville&state=GA

    How hard can it be?

  23. #23
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    19,675
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    Baloney. The roads potrayed are fine for commuting, what the heck are you talking about? Where in the world have you been commuting on public streets and not have motor vehicles pass you? Presence or absence of reliable public transportation does not affect the ease of cycling on such quiet wide residential streets.

    BTW, I recommend that you clean your windshield before recording your next video show.
    I have to agree with you on this one. The notion that it's dangerous for cars to overtake bikes is absurd and anti-bike in the extreme. Bike advocacy for 100 years has emphasized that bikes and cars can co-exist. And bike transportation would be absolutely impossible if bikes were forced to go only where cars wouldn't ever have to ovrtake them.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  24. #24
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Dancing in Lansing
    Posts
    19,675
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Foster View Post
    We live in a very diversified country with areas that would remind someone of the French countryside or an English Village and in some cases large cities. Some people prefer space and we happen to have the space they can live in. The area of Georgia that is being discussed was never a big city it was a small town or village that grew outside of its central section. People that live there most often move there for a slower quieter lifestyle and one the OP finds far too accepting. He has complained that children and adults have waved to him from their cars and they donít even know him. Can you imagine? Someone even tried to strike up a small talk conversation in a store with the OP as if they had something to say he might be interested in. The problem here is not Sprawl but wanderlust. Most often a condition that afflicts younger adults.

    But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide

    They may not be to everyoneís liking and they might not attract many kids but donít the people that live there like the places?
    If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I donít know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.
    I'm afraid that I have to agree with you as well as ILTB. Oh well, stranger things have happened--like fish riding bicycles.

    The community depicted in the video looks very inviting--for people who are dependant on the automobile for almost all of their transportation. It looks OK for bikes, if you don't mind doing big distances every day. It looks like hell on earth for pedestrians and bus riders.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  25. #25
    Banned.
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Southern california
    My Bikes
    Lapierre CF Sensium 400. Jamis Ventura Sport. Trek 800. Giant Cypress.
    Posts
    3,498
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I'm afraid that I have to agree with you as well as ILTB. Oh well, stranger things have happened--like fish riding bicycles.

    The community depicted in the video looks very inviting--for people who are dependant on the automobile for almost all of their transportation. It looks OK for bikes, if you don't mind doing big distances every day. It looks like hell on earth for pedestrians and bus riders.
    I don't know if you have ever walked much in the South but to me it isn't good at the best of times. But like I said as small as that town is and as close as shopping is cycling should be no problem. I wouldn't think there is much trouble with a dial a ride service or something like it, if you need a bus. But with that few people how many would be using a bus anyway? I have been to Portland and many of the distances would be farther than 5 miles, not all I agree but way more than 60-90 or 100 cars will go by. Yes the bike would be my first choice of alternative transportation in that town but I wouldn't be surprised if they have some form of shuttle service for the populace. But if you and people you know can ride in the snow and ice someone could ride a bike in that town. The only reason I used you as an example is because I would move if we got snow and Ice. I might buy a bent if I lived there, it is pretty flat.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •