poormanbiking

Watching CBS News they stated that U.S. traffic accidents cost 33,000 lives a year and around $300 Billion a year. I knew about the death toll but I'm shocked at the dollar amount. Now if Americans biked more think of all the people who would be saved from auto accidents and health issues from the lack of exercise. The money could be used in other parts of the economy.

Caretaker

Not every accident results in a death.

Don't know why you would be shocked.

The death toll figure is going to be pretty accurate but I'm not so sure about the $ figure.

work4bike

I think the number is going down, albeit slowly; thanks to car technology and seatbelt law, but I guess you can say technology hurts too, since people are so hooked to their smartphones -- texting while driving is just crazy.

But it always amazes me that of all the things that cause death and serious injury the vehicle is way up there, yet gets very little attention. People love to go on and on about guns and such, but the vehicle kills/injures so many more people and many of the accidents are really not accidents, they're very preventable and caused by extremely wreckless driving habits.

myrridin

I had a accident on my bike in June (no cars involved) that resulted in > $50,000 in medical bill. My car was totaled in August when it was rear-ended... Total cost was less than $25,000

Roody

That's a good point. Even if a lot of people switched to bikes, there would still be accidents that caused injuries and expenses. But do you think the typical bike accident causes as much financial loss as a car accident? I guess it's possible, but not too likely IMO.

Like you, I had a serious bike fall that resulted in the loss of 10 months wages and big medical bills, including two surgeries and seven nights in the hospital. But I don't think our experiences are typical. I've had other bike falls that involved a little bruise or road rash, or no injury at all.

prathmann

Certainly reckless, but clearly not wreckless.

work4bike

There are thousands and thousand of words in the english language how do you keep them straight

Artkansas 

Words can become gay?

Hippiebrian

The words' lifestyle can be whatever. All words can now go to war and die for our fine corporations!

myrridin

I don't know; however, my bike accident occurred at low speed and didn't involve anyone else--so I suspect the medical costs associated with bike accidents would be pretty high. I had three facial fractures and needed 14 stiches and had a concussion. I was in the hospital (against my wishes) for one day. The medical bill exceeded $50,000. P.S. that is more than $2,000 per hour I was in the hospital or roughly $10,000 per hour I was in the emergency room...

I would guess that most car accidents don't involve significant personal injuries since the damage to the vehicle is usually fairly minor. So I wouldn't be surprised if the average damages for a car accident were fairly low. Given the bikes lack of protection it wouldn't surprise me if such accidents were costlier on average since the cost would reflect the abnormally high cost of medical care.

cycleobsidian

I think car technology and seatbelt laws make medical costs go up, not down. At one time, when you got in a serious car accident, you died.

Now, when you are in a serious accident, you live, but often have life long issues of pain and disability.

A coworker of mine got hit head on on an expressway. If this accident would have taken place several years ago, he would have died. But instead the airbag saved his life. His foot, on the other hand, the one applying the brake, was pretty mangled and caused him pain and inability to walk without crutches for months.

That doesn't include when people survive accidents but have chronic back pain, or a chronic head injury.

Medical expenses, I believe, are greater now than they have ever been because of the increasing effectiveness of technology.

Roody

I guess it's your money or your life.

Roody

I guess it's pointless to speculate. There probably aren't any good figures for comparison, since car accidents and bike accidents (especially when they don't involve cars) are two way different data sets.

gerv 

I had an encounter with an automobile in August that resulted in me spending 1 hour in the emergency room. Couple of x-rays. $5,000.

Myrridin, perhaps we are both in the wrong business.

Roody

You don't want to be ne of the doctors, nurses or techs who took care of you in the ER. They're underpaid.

You want to be the radiologist who probably makes about $5 to look at your x-rays for less than a minute. That is, if you can stand to sit in a chair and peer at a computer screen for hours a day.

Caretaker

That kind of medical charge would certainly worry me about getting injured.

The only Irish comparison I can make is when a doctor refered me to hospital for an x-ray for a work related shoulder injury. The hospital said I'd have to wait 3 months for an x-ray but if I wanted to go private "there's a private hospital down the road". They didn't think I was an emergency.

I went and had it done private and it cost about €125 or about $170.

To get back to cycling, I go cycle-touring on the continent of Europe and always carry a European Health Insurance Card which covers me for all EU countries plus Switzerland. I'd get a lot better medical attention in France and some other countries than I would at home. The card doesn't give you any extra rights you don't already have as an EU citizen but just helps with the paperwork when the provider is claiming back off the Irish health authorities.

myrridin

I have only had two involvements with the medical profession personally. Once for gall bladder surgery many years ago... The bill then was heavily padded with false charges (for instance $150/pill pain pills every four hours I was in the hospital, despite the fact that I took no medication beyond the surgical anathesia...)

In my most recent experience, I was brought in without identification and unconcious. They were getting ready to send me home with abt a $25K bill when I was asked if I had insurance... All of a sudden the bill went up to $48,000. After repeated requests to get an intemization, I noticed that I was charged $15,000 for a trauma team at the same time I was charged $5,000 for an emergency room team... Among others.

My personal favorite was the surgeon who tells me that I need cosmetic surgery to fix the fractures in my face... After I asked if there was a medical nescessity to the surgery he said yes, and that he would give me the details in a few days when I made an appoint to remove my stiches... When I showed up at the appointment he refused to remove the stitches since "he didn't put them in" and that the only reason for the surgery was "cosmetic"... He is still trying to get me to pay $250 for his sales pitch...after I informed my insurance company of his fraudulent scheduling of the appointment.

BTW, I had to remove my own stitches with a seam puller from my sewing kit that afternoon...

I consider medical professionals to have the same ethics as personal injury lawyers... my conscience wouldn't let me work in the field.

I now ride with a road ID, that has my notes that I refuse any medical treatment...

work4bike

I don't know, that would take a detailed look at the statistics, but it does sound plausible. But technology is not static, so even if it is causing more injuries (in effect) that in time will also decrease as technology improves.

dynodonn 

Collision avoidance with anything is my top priority, regardless if I'm driving, walking or bicycling since a trip to the ER and possible hospital stay can really add up, as previously posted.

Our little village has been hard on a couple of cyclists these past weeks, both went to the hospital after being involved in a collision with an automobile, it's just that one cyclist went home afterwards, while the other cyclist went to the morgue.

Roody

This is extremely unusual, maybe even unique. In every case I've heard about and read about, the price hospitals charge insurance companies is much lower than what uninsured individuals are charged. This is because insurance companies have "negotiated" good deals with hospitals and uninsured people are expected to take up the slack. This can easily be checked on the itemized bills that hospitals and other providers sent you.

(It's highly unusual for a hospital to send you home with a bill. They usually send it in the mail after a few days. And I think it would be difficult for them to "all of a sudden" recalculate the bill when they learn you have insurance. Come to think of it, hospitals usually ask if you have insurance shortly after you arrive. It's pretty weird--maybe even unprecedented--that in your case they waited until you left to find out how they would be getting paid.)

In general your experience with the hospital is atypical. But your story, if true, is a good illustration of the fact that a "market economy" is piss poor at providing health care and health insurance. I hope the new health care plan helps, but what we really need is a single payer plan like the civilized world has.

myrridin

Actually, the exact opposite appears to be the case. As a self-employed consultant who doesn't use medical services I didn't carry medical insurance. Last year I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes. For the first few months of my treatment I payed out of pocket for all my care. Every doctor and test was priced at a discount to what they charge the insurance companies for the same services. The reason I was given was the additional paperwork involved with the charging of insurance. I know that after I purchase insurance the amount billed for the same services went up.

And in conversations with family and friends, it appears that fraudulent charges and blatant overcharging is the common business practice in the health care industry. A friend is an accountant for a local hospital and informed me that they "maximize" (to use their euphemism) charges to those patients that have insurance or other means to pay to offset their costs that are not paid by the social medical coverages or those patients that simply do not pay at all...

So despite your prejudices to the contrary, this does not appear to be a failure of the "market economy", but rather a predictable result of forcing private companies to provide medical care as a social service (medicare/medicaid) and "free" care to the indigent..

Well since I was unconscious when I was brought in by ambulance and had no identification on me, I am certain that they expected me to be one of the indigent that they treat... It was several hours later before someone asked me about insurance (after I was coherent again) and at that time I couldn't remember the name of the insurance company. I was approached at check-out because at that point they still didn't have any proof of who I was or any other identifying information.

That said I have only been in a hospital twice in my life, on both occasions I was presented with a bill that I was requested to pay prior to discharge...

What we really need is legislation that will allow private companies (hospitals/doctors) to deny service to those who can't pay or are covered by the social programs that don't pay the market value. Then those of us who can would not be gouged to make up the difference... That changing insurance so that it reimburses the person rather than the doctor and forcing people to pay up front for their medical care so that they have an incentive to prevent fraud.

I find it amusing watching the reaction of ever doctor I've dealt with this year when they tell me I need a procedure/test and see my reaction. Which is to ask "Why is it needed? What does it cost? and Is there other cheaper options that can provide the same answer?

It has been a rare occurrence when the original prescribed test didn't get replaced by a more cost effective option. And their reaction tells me that far too few people ask such questions.


Either way it seems clear that medical "professionals" must have taken the same ethics classes they give to lawyers...

dcrowell

I've never been bill fraudulently on medical bills. My last hospital stay (not accident related) resulted in a $7700 bill, but it was an in-network provider to my insurance company. Insurance paid $1500 (agreed rate), I paid nothing. I have a high-deductible plan, and had already met my deductible for the year. 2011 has been a bad health year.

It wasn't stupidly high fees either. They gave me IV hydromorphone for pain, full price was $7.00, insurance amount was even less.

As far as $300 billion due to car accidents... that's probably a bit overblown. They probably had to add full price medical bills, lost wages, damaged property, then a "fudge factor" to make the number work. It's still going to be lot of money, and the death numbers are probably close.

It's possible to have a huge hospital bill from a bike crash, but less likely than a high-speed car crash. Bikes just don't move that fast.

I know a woman who stepped off of her porch and broke both ankles. Big bills, out of work for a while. Stuff happens.

Caretaker

One of my brothers had a dream to tour the U.S. in a motorhome when he retired. He eventually did but one of the problems he encountered was the high cost of health insurance for the six months or so he was on the road.

This is one of the reasons I will more than likely never cycletour in the U.S.

Roody

Will your Irish insurance not cover you here at all? Personally, I would consider doing the tour anyway, and figure that the risk of anything happening to me is slight. Also, American hospitals are required to provide emergency medical care to everybody who walks (or is wheeled) through their doors. Of course they will make vigorous efforts to collect payment after you leave.

Caretaker

No, not at all, at all.