AdamDZ

Yeah, I agree. I couldn't even read the whole thing. So what, it's the customers fault? What is his point? I certainly feel weird at bike shops, most just don't know how to treat customers. I mean really, I'm 44 yo adult, I'm not "dude" nor "brother". Some manners would help some. So am I a whining "internet b**ch" because I don't like the way bike shops treat me?!? Or because they can't get me what I asked them to? WTF???

Not to mention I can never get what I need: "we can order it for you!". Yeah, it's not the 80s any more, I can order it too. "You can't shift when going uphill!". Really? Do you actually ride? "Singlespeed bikes are faster!" Oh yeah?

I gave a guy an exact list of parts that I wanted my wheels to be built with. He gets the wrong rims and builds the wheels without asking me. I want all-black shifters, he gets me black shifters with silver levers. Hello? I mean stuff like that just drives me nuts.

I know only one bike shop that I feel welcome, respected not being treated like an idiot and that their mechanic actually knows what he's talking about. But they don't have what I need most of the time anyway.

I stopped going to bike shops, because it was always frustrating experience.

BIG-E

Our local bikes shops have gone steadily down. I worked at one for a few summers when I was younger. Even then it was pretty bad, I once ordered stuff from Price Point for myself and had it shipped to the shop because our ordering guy only placed orders once per week and I needed the parts so I could ride that weekend.

Neither shop is capable of getting special orders within a week, and they usually need to be nagged. Neither stocks 29er tires or tubes, or disc brake pads for modern disc brakes. Both charge full retail for EVERYTHING, even the higher end stuff that they'd still make a good profit on if they were a bit more competitive. And they charge for shipping special orders, on top of the full retail. And then you have to wait and wonder if it even got ordered...or if the slip is sitting in a pile somewhere being ignored while the employees stand around whining.

Luckily I've found a good shop in the next town over. I just bought a new Big Dummy from them. It's $600 less than a local shop quoted me, and the local shop took 5 days to get back to me with the price by which time I had already placed the order. They ordered it when they said they would and are keeping me up to date on the progress. I'll be giving them more business in the future.

sauerwald

I love my LBS, I just wish I were a better customer of theirs. Let me tell you a story about my favourite LBS (Sloughs in San Jose):

When I built my primary commute bike, I spent a lot of time deciding on each component, and I reveled at putting it all together. I messed up when ordering the bottom bracket, and ended up having to buy one from an LBS which was not exactly what I wanted, but it was the right size, and I was anxious to ride the new bike, and the local shop had it in stock. A few years later, and a coast-coast move, and the bottom bracket has issues, and I decide to go to what I had wanted to use in the first place (a Phil Wood BB). I do most of my own work on my bikes, which means that I don't visit the LBS often, and when I do, I am buying something like a chain or brake pads. The Phil BB uses special tools to put in, so I figure that this will be a job for the LBS. I ride down to Sloughs and tell George that I want a Phil BB for the bike, and tell him what size. He takes a look and he doesn't have the right size in stock, so he says that if I leave the bike, he can pick one up, put it in the next day, and I could pick up the bike tomorrow afternoon. When I tell him that the bike is my primary transportation, so leaving it requires some logistical planning, he runs off to get the right size part (Phil Wood is not far), comes back and replaces the bottom bracket while I waited. I buy whatever I can from his shop.

Roody

If it's a pretty good shop, it might be worth your time to educate them about your needs as an everyday cyclist or utility rider, as I found out.

I used to go to a nice LBS for repairs. It was pretty annoying though--if I took the bike in on a Monday, they'd say, "Oh don't worry, we'll have it ready for you by the weekend." I don't know how many times I'd explain that I need my bike on weekdays a lot more than on weekends. I'd always spend a few minutes explaining whet I used my bike for, and they never really seemed to get it. I had pretty much given up on that shop when one day while I was riding to work, my bottom bracket blew up a couple blocks from this shop. I walked it over there, and the wrench started to write it up. Then the owner rushed over and said "This is the guy who uses his bike for everything." I said yeah, and I was going to be late for work because of the stupid BB. He said, "Not if I can help it." He told me to pick out one of their used bikes as a loaner abnd get going. "I'll write it up for you, and we'll have it fixed for you by tomorrow. I know how much you need your bike, so we'll rush it for you."

The moral is, all that time I spent patiently explaining how I used my bike finally paid off. Now, with more commuters adn everyday cyclists all the time, I hope they're picking up some business from people like me.

SnowJob

Touche!

bragi

OK, fair statements all around. I agree with all you've said here. There are several really good bike shops here, but there are a few that deserve to go under.

However, I still think the internet represents a very real threat to small, locally-owned and operated businesses; this applies to almost all businesses, not just bike shops. I kind of fear a future where we'll all HAVE to buy from Amazon, in a completely seller-dominated market, because they're the only retailer left.

dynodonn 

I no longer purchase bikes online since I've found out that one bad purchasing experience can considerably set one back monetarily, enough so that one could have bought an even far better bike at the LBS than originally planned.

Mos6502

I think it depends. I still mostly avoid amazon for anything other than used books. I think the only time I got bike parts from them was when I got some tires from niagra. In fact I sometimes look on amazon to see if I can find something, then see if a local shop has it already.

I'm perfectly willing to pay for the convenience of having something in my hands when I buy it, but that still requires a shop to stock what I want. Or be willing to order it. When I first got into bikes it was discouraging because a lot of shops didn't have what I wanted/needed and I was told that "they don't make that any more" or something similar to it commonly. Or I placed an order and the part mysteriously never showed up (possibly because they didn't want to order a low profit item in the chance I never returned for it?).

I have however also found lots of shops that are happy to order things - or better yet even stock things I want. But in my experience the majority of the shops cut themselves off from a large portion of potential customers simply because they believe that the weekend warrior type is the only crowd that exists and/or is worth selling to.

xtrajack

The best bike shop that I have ever been in was in Leesville LA. It was owned and operated by a retired Sargeant. He told me that he ran the shop because he loved cycling, it wasn't his bread and butter.

nubcake

I couldn't make it through much of his rant before loosing interest.

In my time working in bike shops some of the things that are pretty frustrating are:

People come in shop around, ask our advise and then go home and mail order the stuff we suggested or let them try.
People claim we are ripping them off when we are still charging below MSRP but still way higher than a mail order company as many times these mail order companies are selling stuff at our cost, no way to compete there.
People buy a tube, get a flat a day or two later and expect us to replace it for free even though we show them the thorn/nail/etc sticking out of the tire.
People who come in, beg us to get their bike in and out for some bigger service within a day or two in the middle of our busy season, we do, then they still don't pick their bike up for 2 weeks even after we rushed it through and called them when its done.

Even though these things are a major PITA, luckily at the two shops I have worked in our great customers significantly out weighed the annoying ones. You really do not get into this business to make money but you do hope you can at least get by and feel like you have some job security and are able to pay the bills with a little left over.

As far as amazon goes, I try to avoid them for many reasons, mostly hearing about how horrid they treat their warehouse staff and encouraging going to local shops to try on/test stuff and then ordering from them with their app that lets you scan bar codes in the store.

wahoonc

^^^^ This, most small shops I know, the people are in it for the love of bikes not the money, especially the ones that deal in things outside of the sports cycling.

Aaron

folder fanatic

Wow, I am certainly surprised at the honest and in depth responses to my original topic. I do want to do an overview general observation that bike shops are not a different creature or species from any other type of business. Unless the owner runs his/her shop as a hobby, a non profit charity, and not financially dependent -i.e. have to feed themselves and/or their families by the earnings-their primary reason for existence is to make a profit or fail and disappear forever from the landscape no matter how long the bike shop was in business (see the included photos on one local almost-50-years-in-business bike shop closed just 2 weeks ago as I write this). With that in mind, let me now deal with some of you individually.

Huh, don't I know it.

You did not include an old fashioned, but still very powerful marketing tool which makes or breaks an business of any kind; word-of-mouth. When I discuss or recommend an business-especially an technical one such as a bike shop-to my locally based relatives, long time friends, acquaintances, and even just online buddies offline, I am very honest and sometimes brutal about any bike shop I had dealings with. If I feel that they gave me the shaft on charging for a particular part(s), labor, and/or untimely service (not performed within a week or so without a good reason), I tell exactly & honestly with proof what happened and warn against patronizing that particular shop privately offline. If I was treated well and fairly, I would recommend the shop fully. I don't like to post anything online that would come back to haunt me-just ask the embarrassed beer guzzling party hardy ex college student who cannot find employment because of those risque photos on Facebook. I feel that my local businesses and local happenings is not necessary to post online as it is not a global issue. It does not change the need to talk about business practices in general terms online though.

Those cast-offs from the 1970s or earlier are the ones I look for and use. They are far superior over the Wal-junk Chinese crap flooding the market since the early 1980s. With the current bike craze right now, the prices for those once inexpensive bikes-usually the used pre-1980 market-have skyrocket beyond anyone's sane price. Even that awful department store junk is now shooting up in price.

The North American market for bicycles split in two large groups-the recreational rider out for a around block ride and a vague need to "lose weight" and the high end bike snob market with special bike uniforms and shops that cater and fuss over them with fittings, proper this & that components and accessories. The person who uses his/her bike for primary transportation/utility is ignored or offered unsuitable bikes & gear. So what is a person to do? Go back to the driver's seat?



Your observations above prove that there are 2 sides to every story about bike shops-or anything else in life. I do have to watch out for the "evil" bike shops as experience taught me they can do much damage as they go out of business. Think about it. When you release your bike from your custody (i.e. give it to the shop to repair it), it becomes a matter of trust especially on the customer's side of things about the well being of the bike (and your wallet). I learn to watch my back and err on a bit caution about where and what circumstances the bike is fixed. Bikes are still not too valued by North American regular society and is "just a bike" even if you are dependent on it. Don't believe me? Just watch local law enforcement when your bike is stolen and how they act about it.

And sometimes a bicycle shop fails simply because they misread their potential clientele. This bike shop in Santa Barbara, CA is a excellent case-in-point showing that things beyond their control creates a failed business:
".......After three years, WheelHouse Bikes is shuttering its doors. College buddies Erik Wright and Evan Minogue opened the store during a two-year span in which four other bicycle shops went into business. Unlike the others, however, WheelHouse specializes in utilitarian bicycles and Dutch-style commuters.......Minogue noted that while Santa Barbara is a world-renowned destination for recreational road and mountain biking, its citizens have not yet adopted bicycles as their primary source of transportation. “We may have just been ahead of our time,” he said....."-https://www.independent.com/news/2012...-out-business/

More likely, their too-expensive-for-just-around-the-block-or-park-use high chance of theft Dutch bikes were not needed as the cost & near future availability of gas/petrol for cars is still cheap & plentiful. They want cheapo recreational bikes or pro fancy high end serious use ones. And most people still prefer to have their own car and drive it around.

For everything I buy now, I buy where I can get the product without too much hassle. End Of Problem .

bragi

I have a new LBS story: I recently took my bike to the most successful LBS in Seattle, to get a handlebar swap. It's a very busy, well-stocked shop, and I've often gotten parts there in the past. They kind of messed the handlebar swap up, and I had to take it back: the front derailleur kept slipping for no reason, which had never happened before, and I couldn't figure out what the cause was. They made good on their mistake, whatever it was, so it's not a horror story, but they absolutely refused to discuss why this happened, and they were actually kind of contemptuous about it. I kind of like to learn about my bike as a machine as I go along, and I was kind of offended by their testy refusal to spend two minutes to talk to me about it. In addition, after I picked it up, about a half mile from the shop, I noticed that the barrel adjuster had been screwed all the way to one end, so that it wasn't possible to change chain rings until I adjusted it properly. This shop was never on my list of shops that I really like, but now they'll never get any of my business again, not even for a tube.

nubcake

That is never cool. most people are happy if you are willing to admit your mistakes as long as you make it right and don't make it a habit of messing up. Also even when busy if someone asks what I am doing with their bike I will try and show them, customer service is the only thing that separates brick and mortar shops from mail order shops and if we let that go then we will just be another empty building.

We had another annoying one the other day, a guy wanted to pick his bike up at 10 (when we open) and dropped it off late enough that we could not finish it with the time left in the day. I came in 2 hours early to make sure it was ready to go at 10, then he did not show up will late in the day. That stuff does get frustrating, if you ask us to go out of our way to get you done early please don't make the extra effort go to waste, especially when there is a lot of other people that would love their bike back sooner.

Mos6502

He probably thought he was doing you a favor coming in later.

nubcake

I never thought of that, could be true although I really had no problem coming in early to help him out, it was just the making the effort to come in early and then he never showed that was dis-respectful in my eyes. All was not lost though, with as busy as we are right now it does not hurt to get an extra repair or two done during the day day by coming in early.

folder fanatic

As I stated before, it goes both ways. Plus even in other countries far from North America. In far away places like New New Zealand is not above reproach:

".......Customers often change their shopping habits to take advantage of the special and limited opportunity a sale like this represents. In cases like these, not only can customers be misled, but competitors may also be disadvantaged," Morrison said......"-https://www.nzherald.co.nz/commerce-c...ectid=10798524

So for both sides of the coin, remember that there must be some center meeting point in honesty & integrity mixed in with proper checked pricing & product quality in order to satisfy both parties. Not hyper-greed manifesting in the form of hyper-capitalism on the shop owner's side or unchecked bargain hunting or groveling of the seller on the customer's side. Although IMO I believe that the customer is most likely the one to get hurt, financially or physically if something goes amiss or dead wrong.

folder fanatic

Oh by the way, Here is a reminder for all parties involved. Study this list whether you are a bike shop employee/owner or a customer (Most Important Part Quoted Below):

"......4. When It's Time to Move On
In a remote area, you may have little choice in bike shops. It's the local guy or nothing. But most of us have at least a couple in easy driving distance to choose from. And in big cities there can be dozens of shops. So when is time to look elsewhere? Here's how to tell:

Staff who are rude, arrogant or condescending. Even if you know very little about bikes, there is no excuse for an employee to treat you like you're stupid. Good ones can explain even complicated things.
Shoddy or delayed work. Barring unusual circumstances, work should be consistently done right and delivered on time.
Constant unreasonable pushing for higher ticket sales. A little upselling is okay, but good staff who understand your budget will help you work within it.
5. Finding a Shop: Ask Other Cyclists Where They Go
If you don't feel good at your current bike shop, don't be afraid to shop around and visit other places. You want one that fits you and your personality and the type of riding you do. Some stores may focus more on one type of riding than other, i.e., road vs. mountain vs. casual, and the culture there may reflect that.

It's a little like dating. You want to go where you feel comfortable, where you feel genuinely welcome, and not disdained or intimidated. You're the customer and it's your money, so it is completely reasonable to expect that you'll enjoy the experience and to believe that the staff has your best interests at heart....."
-https://bicycling.about.com/od/bikema...-Bike-Shop.htm

Another related article
Online vs. Big vs. Little Bike Retailer-Or Complete Liberation For Dealing With Live Human Beings At All!:
".......In the end, there's room for both types of stores, and sometimes it comes down to mood. If you want to socialize, go to the LBS. If you're feeling ornery, you're better off shopping at home. Ultimately, though, bike shops have the edge. At home you can get naked, but you can't try on the shorts....."
https://www.bicycling.com/news/featur...ternal-dilemma

Plus The Bike Shop's Side Of Things: https://nbda.com/articles/want-to-sta...-shop-pg70.htm

And like any toxic relationship (especially involving money issues), or one you simply might have outgrown.....move on.

milkbaby

Sadly the US has sent the majority of manufacturing jobs offshore, and now we'll be giving up most of the good sales jobs to big box and the like. I remember a local bookstore with excellent selection and staff who actually had health insurance and even pensions, but they had to close. I don't mind paying above the absolute lowest advertised price if I am buying from my neighbor, a member of the local community... but that's just me. I'm not sure why American society is enamored with paying less to have more of everything instead of paying reasonably for lesser number of higher quality needs.

folder fanatic

The average American slob consumer is just that....A Genuine Bargain Hunting, F**k You All Buyer. Plus a real hidden-to-view Hypocrite when it comes to mouthing to the tune of "Support Smaller Businness & The Little Guy." Yet still has the gall to wonder why his/her job went overseas & almost everything is now imported and a sorry lot of disposable junk.

wahoonc

The US has built an entire economy on consumption and nothing else...pretty short sighted if you ask me. When you stop producing what you consume you die...literally.

Aaron

folder fanatic

And we are doing a great job of strangling ourselves as well as being buried alive by all this imported junk.