folder fanatic

I know that there were other articles/videos on this topic before. I thought that you might want some more discussion on this rather interesting topic:

"........Bigger than the post-World War Two baby-boom generation but without the middle-class expansion that drove the earlier group's consumer habits, Generation Y includes an increasing number of people for whom driving is less an American rite of passage than an unnecessary chore......."That moment of realizing that you're a grown-up - for my generation, that was when you got your driver's license or car," said Tony Dudzik, a senior policy analyst of the Frontier Group, a California-based think tank that has studied this phenomenon. "For young people now, that moment comes when you get your first cellphone......At the same time, older people are driving more, researchers at the University of Michigan found. In 2008, those age 70 and older made up the largest group of drivers on the road, more than 10 percent, which was slightly higher than those in their 40s or 50s.......More central is the group's general anxiety over finances and the economy, he said......."They're shouldering higher mortgage costs, rent; their insurance costs are higher than previous generation's," Jacobs said. "And all that's happening after a couple of recessions, so they've really never, as young adults, seen a very healthy, stable economy. They're worried about a lot of things.......""-https://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8600BK20120701

I would like to add a question to Generation Y or their elders. Do you agree/disagree about this lack of interest in cars and operating them an result of not having the finances to drive/own or simply an honest change of direction and priorities?

Is higher post high school education next on the list because of the high cost and too much dependence on Student Loans?

DwarvenChef

I've been in my car 4 times in the past 3 months... why do I even have a car...

My cost of schooling was insane but I just had to get the training. At my current ability to pay it off I will be 80 when I am free from that debt... So much for ever retiring...

So if that is my experience I would imagin many others of college age are feeling the pinch. Student loans are now the cash cow for wall street, and it's getting milked for all it's worth.

wahoonc

My two children are both Gen Y. My son does not own a car and as far as I can tell never plans too. My daughter owns a car but to her it is a tool, and in this case a necessary evil due to where she lives at the moment. She has lived car free in the past and I am sure will again in the future. Both have some college loans, primarily from their graduate degrees, but it isn't what I would consider overwhelming like some I see written about.

I think much of it is driven by finances followed by personal priorities.

Aaron

krobinson103

Born in 1974... a few years before wikipedia defines generation y, but I no zero interest in cars save they are a nessecary evil with 2 small kids. Once the kids get old enough the car goes. I never drive it anyway. My only transportation is my 2 bicycles and a scooter in case I injure myself and an inable to ride to work. Couple that with the stupidly high cost of our mortgage and the money it takes to keep the family going a car is the last thing I want.

late

This started (as so much did) back in the 80s.

Housing prices headed up, wages did not. The Boomers
(and others) simply worked more hours to compensate.

At the peak, the number of hours/wk that a family worked almost
got to 300% more than it was in the 60s.

Once in the home, costs related to owning a home have also gone up.
A lot of people were simply pushed out of the market.

You can see this reflected in a slow migration back into cities.
Suburbs were an accidental creation, a result of things that happened after WW2.
They will shrink.

dynodonn 

I've been watching this trend for some years now, with the local high school parking lots being considerably emptier today, than 10 or more years ago.

no1mad 

[QUOTE=dynodonn;14430999]I've been watching this trend for some years now, with the local high school parking lots being considerably emptier today, than 10 or more years ago.[/QUOTE

May have something to do with graduated DL programs, combined with the fact the teens are in competition for p/t jobs with their parents, it's just not economically viable for families.

Or it could be the influence of technology. Used to be a car meant freedom (escapism), but it's basically relegated to just a tool. The internet has supplanted the auto when it comes to all facets that the auto once had, save for physical transport. iProducts and 'Droid Devices aren't cheap, neither is high speed web access, but pales in comparision to a car and its related expenses.

cabledawg

I think finances has more to do with the turn off of driving than anything else. Its harder to work on the newer cars with all the electronics and such and I'm sure insurance isnt very cheap these days ( I wouldnt know as my insurance is dirt cheap, but I'm old and have used the same company for almost 15 years). Electronics (such as video games and cell phones) have a hand in this too. I remember growing up in a small town before cell phones and online video games. If you wanted to "hang out", you had to have a ride somewhere, so once you turned 16, you got a DL and either bought a car (like I did) or borrowed one from mom/dad/older sibling. That was your independance for a Friday night. But anymore, you just text your BFF and let them know you're getting online or better yet, they're probably already on and see your gamer tag pop up and know you're ready to rock. Why drive to see a friend when you can go virtual?

FenderTL5

My daughter (23) has zero interest in a car. She does not have a DL and has often said, "Why bother? I can go anywhere I need to go by walking or riding the MTA (local public transportation).
My son (18) has a learner's permit but has been procrastinating on getting his DL.

We live inside the city limits and auto ownership has become a hassle. I would much rather bike/MTA my commute than drive. We have one car (2003) that is paid for. It has been driven 113 miles in the past month. There's no plans to purchase anything else in the foreseeable future.

Newspaperguy

I'm older than Gen Y, but I'm noticing the love affair with the car is over now. Long over.

People around my age constantly complain about how much they spend to fill the car. Those in larger cities complain about the congestion on the roads, especially during the morning and evening rush hours. And nobody's happy about the costs of insurance or maintenance. For these people, driving may have been a form of freedom when they were 18, but now they see it as a necessary evil. It's even worse for those with teens since they've taken on the role of becoming the family taxi service. I can't think of anyone I know in my age range who truly enjoys a car anymore.

I'm one of a few people in my town who uses a bike as primary transportation. At first, I was a novelty but now others are starting to ask questions about making the move away from heavy car-dependency. I'm not expecting to see huge changes overnight, but people are now considering something they had not thought about even a few years ago.

Booger1

They're not interested because you have to actually get out of the chair and go outside.....Even if they do go out and drive,if they don't have an app for directions,they'll never make it back home.

Artkansas 

I think a key issue is what do they do when they have kids.

Smallwheels

If I had high speed internet connectivity with a video camera back when I was a teen, I wouldn't have left the house if all I had to do was go online to have a video conference with friends. Today I have a video camera on my laptop yet haven't used it once. When I bought my Mac Book I was eager to try iChat. It was set up and nobody I know has a Mac. Of course now that there are so many other video chat services to use I could do it. I've got Skype.

The local high school parking lots are filled during school hours. So are the college parking lots and the bordering streets. Cost must be a big factor in driving these days. If there is a downward trend in car ownership in that demographic then it isn't showing on the roads yet.

no1mad 

There is truth in that. Then combine it with the fact that the cell phone supplanted the car as a 'Rite of Passage' of sorts. Combine with the fact that texting while driving has been or is some stage of being banned practically everywhere. Now tell someone that has had a mobile device grafted to them for the last couple of years and tell them that they have to put the phone/media player down so they can learn how to drive so they can go interact with their friends...

cycleobsidian

They'll likely manage with one car instead of two. They may even have to negotiate and work together and decide who gets the car to take the kids to their soccer games.

I for one think that the whole issue around car expense will actually be a plus; it won't be taken for granted; people might have to work together to figure out solutions around their kids rather than everyone having their own car.

Mithrandir

I'm right on the cusp of GenX/Y, it's not really clear which one I belong to, having been included in X for most of my youth, but then suddenly being called a Millennial/Y when the year 2000 rolled around.


When I was in high school, my economics teacher gave me the one and only bit of useful information I'd ever received in my entire pre-university education: "The worst thing you can do financially is buy a car when you graduate". I took this advice to heart, and did not buy a car until I got a job 25 miles away from where I lived at age 25. It was cheap and relatively modest, and I only just sold it last year to purchase my 2nd car- an act which I now view as a mistake. I succumbed to peer pressure at my job, having been told by my peers that my career was certain to go nowhere if I continued to drive around a car that was made in the 90's. Believing that nonsense, I sold my old car and bought a brand new one- a hybrid because I wanted to lower my carbon emissions, but a brand new car nonetheless.

From the age of 21 to 25 I used to ride my bike around everywhere. The pinnacle of this period was the one time I rode 50 miles in one sitting, an accomplishment I believed to be incredibly amazing, since I'd never met anyone who biked that much. When I bought the car, I fell in love with the freedom I had to go explore everywhere in this state, and little by little my bicycling completely fell by the wayside. In 2004 I had biked 1250 miles. In 2005 that fell to 600 miles. In 2006 I had only bicycled 100 miles, and by 2007 I had stopped completely.

Unfortunately in the period between 2005 and 2010, I gained an incredible amount of weight and stood at 470 pounds at my maximum. Health took a turn for the worse and I decided to get back on the habit of cycling, but unfortunately I had grown too embarrassed about my physique to actually go out on the bike. So I stayed indoors for a year, working out on a recumbent exercise bike, until May of 2011 when I dropped to 360 and finally felt good enough about myself to start cycling again (3 months after buying the new car). 3000 miles last year and I was hooked, bought a brand new road bike, and I'm well on my way to hitting 4000 miles this year, another record-setting year.

Even with my newfound love of my bicycle, I still didn't immediately consider it a mode of transportation in any way. I would just go to bike paths, bike around, then come back home. It was only until I branched out and found bikeforums.net did I actually consider bicycling to be a viable form of transport, and last July I began bicycle commuting to work (which was now 20 miles from home, for 40 miles a day) 1 day a week. I instantly fell in love with it, and ramped up my commuting to a point where I finally hit 5 commutes in one week in October.

Sometime during this period I, for the first time in my life, began to regret buying my car. I had begun replacing so many miles of driving with bicycling that for 3 weeks in October of last year I actually managed more miles on the bike than in the car. I began formulating plans to move 10 miles closer to work so that I could easily commute to work every day, rain or shine, but unfortunately my office closed and those plans were put on hold as I transitioned into a work-from-home position at my company.

When this year began I decided to challenge myself to riding more miles than driving over the length of the year. Unfortunately things haven't worked out as well as I had hoped. I hurt my knee in April and lost 3 weeks of cycling, and have thrown out my back twice already, leading to 2 more lost weeks, and falling back into the habit of driving. A long business trip to Washington DC added into the mix, and I'm currently sitting at 4000 miles driven and 2000 miles biked. It seems unlikely I'll meet my goal of biking more than driving at this point, though my driving will be the lowest it's ever been in my entire life at this rate (averaged 15k miles before)

Anyway, so what have I learned over these past two years? I love the idea of car-free. I want to do it. But there is no denying that cars provide a great amount of convenience and freedom. It is great being able to hop into a conveyance at a moments notice, without having to figure out which busses go where and when (my town has 1 bus stop, takes people away in the morning and brings people back at night; you basically have to rearrange your entire life around the bus in order to use it, and the next stop is 10 miles away), or worrying about biking through a thunderstorm or freezing your fingers off in Winter. It's a very tough sell to convince people to go car-free, even though I would love to try it. I'm hoping that if I can average less than 8k of driving each year, I'll be able to keep this car for at least 15 years, however, if I never reach the goal of car-freeism.

folder fanatic

Actually, in the late 1970s onward the Boomers & others simply sent their wives and even older children to work and bring in extra cash flow(s) when the prices started to escalate or in case the primary breadwinner lost his' even her's job. Huge price increases plus stagnant wages priced many people once able to afford basic homes out of the market. Suburbs were a creation of another era. If you look at many "suburbs," they are in reality a small town swallowed by by the influx of new residents from those "dang" projects back then. The small towns and villages will simply go back to what they were before the newcomers came.

Yes, money is the real dampener of the car worship that has been going on for a hundred years.

Cars have been relegated to it's real position in most people's lives now-a means of transport. Not a ego enhancer, mobile bedroom, decoration, or the rest of the things people once assigned their cars to. If you look closely, there is not anything on the horizon that can take the place of the car. Bikes? too slow. Public transit? unreliable. Friends? Who has them nowadays.

So I wonder what will replace the car?

krobinson103

Not sure about the US, but in Korea the car is still the ultimate 'rich' symbol. People either look down or look amazed when they realize that ALL my personal transportation is done on a bike. They then look at me like I'm nuts when I tell tell them that in addition to transport (around 100km a week) I also ride an extra 300km for fun and fitness. Its ingrained in people from so many years of motorized transport - be it rail, car, bus or some other alternative, that it is in fact impossible to go further than the end of your own driveway under your own power. Even if you do, it must be some major exercise trip.

My wife and mother in law are an example. I get up at 4:30am, ride 30km before the break of dawn, get home, ride to work, and ride home. I also put one 80-100 mile in on the weekend (again at dawn) Now I get constant badgering that I'm "exercising too much." How so? Muscles are meant to be used and sitting in the car won't help keep me fit. If the results are any indication, 20kg lost, blood work totally clear, energy to spare, then the car is in fact a menace to public health. They on the other hand drive around, eat more than I, and complain when their health suffers. No, we are far better off without a car.

When my youngest gets old enough I'm going to compaign to get rid of car completely, but until then we do need the thing to get baby and 6 year old along with their exercise allergic mother 3km down the road. I'm working on my oldest - got her 2 bikes now, and she rides on the back of my commuter whenever we need to go anywhere. I'm hoping she will realize the value of getting yourself places.

kookaburra1701

I was born in 1984, and yes, it's true for a majority of my peers. Some of them do like cars, but it's more a hobby/passion than an infatuation - restoring classic cars or actual racing, that sort of thing. I still have the same car I bought with cash in high school, and see no reason I should "upgrade." I only drive 1-3 times per month, if that. It's a big hassle keeping my car's battery charged, and having to remember the insurance and all of the stuff that goes with it. If I lived in a bigger city, I'd give it up completely and just rent a car when I need one.

Money is going to be huge for my generation - I'm doing ok on my student loans, but that's pretty much because I got lucky and got some good scholarships. I don't have a job in the field where my degree is (commercial art and illustration) but I went back to school and got my AAS as a paramedic. I'll be able to pay them off just fine, but seeing how the system is stacked against students and young adults is infuriating. And then I get labled as a lazy freeloader and whiner because I point this out.

Older people also seem to view most electronic devices like computers and smartphones as "toys" - maybe some people use them that way, but I'd rather have internet access than a car, or even adequate food. I can get by on lean rations, but without the internet how could I find job/housing opportunities if I lost everything?

Artkansas 

High speed internet is my only luxury these days. But I certainly don't feel the need to be as connected as so many people are with their cell phones,(ie grocery shopping with the cell so your partner can check the cupboard at home as you roam the aisles of the store) or have my life run out of a smart phone.

I-Like-To-Bike

Posters on this list might want to remember this simple explanation of transportation reality for many, many people, the next time someone posts here (for zillionth time) that cars cost money and/or bicycle ownership is less expensive.

kookaburra1701

People having their partner/roommate look in the cupboards over the phone are chumps. Just keep an editable list up on googledocs, and strikethrough things that have been purchased when you purchase them. Or you could download one of the MYRIAD of apps that keeps updated shopping lists on all the phones in a household. Seeing people using tech in a hackneyed, inefficient way makes me wince. I wonder if that's going to be one of GenY's quirks, like how the Depression generation saves twist ties and string.

I just updated my resume last week, and was thinking about how the last 5 jobs and two apartments I've held I've managed to snag because I'd set up alerts on google for openings/housing in the area. Job gets posted, google emails me BAM my resume/cover letter/references/professional certs were in that recruiter's inbox within minutes. I don't think I could get a job in my current field without the internet - I've never seen any positions posted anywhere except online.

wahoonc

We use a shopping app called Our Groceries... it works across the entire platform spectrum. When we make up the heavy grocery shopping list I do it on the laptop as my bride calls out what we need to restock the cabinets. If one or the other of us thinks of something else it is easy to add it to the list via our cellphone. Who ever does the shopping has the list with them on their phone and clears it as they go. It also allows us to shop multiple stores to purchase items on sale without duplicating purchases. We also have lists for birthday presents, home repair items and a couple of others. All in one simple to use application.

I am over 50 love and use technology daily. We do live fairly simply compared to a lot of our peers, everything we own is paid for in full, when we make major purchases we research them carefully and typically pay cash. I also use the google alerts to help me manage projects at work. I have scored several major coups because I was informed and had solid information when others were still dithering about and guessing at what needed to be done.

Aaron

Newspaperguy

What will replace the car? That depends on where one lives.

In larger cities, public transportation usually wins for convenience and cost. In small towns without transit, walking or cycling makes sense. But those options also mean people have to live in places where it is convenient to use those forms of transportation. Choosing to live on a country estate far from the town centre also means choosing to be car-dependent.

As fuel prices rise, the idea of a car to do everything will make less sense. Getting something large which can handle every possible use will mean buying an expensive vehicle and then spending more on fuel and maintenance than getting something designed for the primary driving purposes. In other words, a large sport utility vehicle which can carry a family of eight, serve to haul large items and go off-road will not look too appealing for a family of two who drive between two nearby cities. The extra capacity costs more initially and in terms of fuel and maintenance.

One thing I'm expecting to see in the future is the rise of ride sharing and carpooling. This is already happening in Washington D.C. and other cities with slug lines. It's not a perfect solution, but it helps the motorists and the passengers. Everyone can save money with this method.

krobinson103

In large cities such as Seoul the subway and bicycles, scooters, and small motorcycles predominate for easy transportation. Bikes are replacing scooters and motorcycles as fuel prices go up. Also you can take your bike on the subway (for certain lines) so it makes it very easy for those who don't want to road commute.