Roody

This seems like a great convenience, especially for carfree people. But Amazon.com almost makes Walmart look like a small local retailer. I bet a lot of people won't like this one bit. What do you think?


https://www.slate.com/articles/busine...l_retail_.html

kookaburra1701

I'm of mixed feelings - I know that Amazon is putting local retailers out of business and has abominable labor practices buuuuuuut...

I work nights, and I'm in a very small town with very limited retail selection and most of them are only open when I'm asleep during the day. Going to the nearest metropolitan area requires 1.5 hours of driving over a mountain range. I do quite a bit of my shopping on Amazon, and if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to be as car-light as I am. (I drive at most 1-2x a month, many months not at all.) So Amazon Prime has been an awesome thing for me personally. Same-day service would be cool, but I've never really needed it so far, and I doubt they'd ever be able to offer it out where I am unless transporter technology comes on the scene.

zephyr

I just read another related article that described plans by Amazon to open a huge distribution center in San Bernardino, about 50 miles east of Los Angeles and about 50 miles northeast from where I live. That place will become the distribution center for about 20 milllion residents of Southern California. San Bernardino is on the busiest west to east coast freight rail line in the US and not far from the port of Los Angeles / Long Beach, which is the busiest container port in the US. San Bernardino is also the most recent city in California to head into bankruptcy. The unemployment rate is above 12 percent and 70 percent of homeowners owe more on their mortgage than the actual market value of the home. I know the place pretty well from visits to my grandmother who lived there from the 1950s to the 1980s.

I am guessing that San Bernardino will benefit from the new Amazon distribution center. There will be a lot of construction jobs to build the place, and a few thousand permanent jobs. It's pretty rare in California these days to see something new open up that offers that many jobs, even if they are low paying jobs. Every job created in that new place will also help create a few more jobs in related things like transportation. Not easy to measure right now would be how many jobs will be lost in local businesses by sales lost to Amazon.

I am an occasional Amazon shopper. Even though I live in a metro area that has a bigger variety of retail establishments than any person could ever need, they are scattered about over a fairly large area and not just down the street. The same day or even next delivery is not such a big deal to me, but I guess it might be for other people. I am wondering if Amazon might even start up it's own fleet of metro area delivery vehicles instead of using UPS or Fed Ex?

Roody

It surprises me that so many people--including many on this forum--are always up in arms against Walmart, but give Amazon a free pass. Why is this?

wahoonc

Amazon actually sources from some smaller businesses, Walmart doesn't. I don't buy a huge amount from Amazon, but as an example I purchased some Altoids, while I ordered them from Amazon the order was fulfilled by a store called Candies Delight. This is true of quite a few other items I have bought from them.

As far as the next day delivery...that is nice but at what price and is it sustainable?

Aaron

I-Like-To-Bike

PC hipness/hypocrisy trumps rational thinking for some. Are you really surprised?

gerv 

Have to confess that I shop at both Walmart and Amazon. Walmart ends up being one of the closest retail outlets and I often use it to buy hardware items. I use Amazon to obtain items that would require a major expedition otherwise.

To be honest, it seems we often pick on the biggest and most successful retailer. But we could just as easily target the #2... for example, Target and Powell's Books.

Also, too.... pushing our business toward small-time, local vendors doesn't always guarantee improvement on labor practices either.

billyymc

Before Amazon even was a twinkling of an idea, The WalMart was pushing its suppliers to produce products of such poor design and quality standards, that they became at the same time available to everyone, and disposable. The WalMart promotes it's "green" initiatives, yet their entire business model is based on filling up our landfills with the worthless crappy products they sell as quickly as possible. Same for retailers like Old Navy - $6 hoodie faded? Who cares...throw it out and get a new one. The Walmart figured it out a long time ago - the average person likes to buy stuff, even if the stuff sucks...so sell them sucky stuff. The bonus is that you can sell them that same sucky stuff again in a few months when the first one breaks, or a new feature is added, or the names of the colors are changed.

That's why I hate the WalMart, and other retailers that sell products designed to be in the trash within 6 months of purchase.

Besides that, I think lots of people hate Walmart more than Amazon because it's a physical, tangible representation of the ugly, shallow, consumeristic society in which we live. Amazon doesn't have massive parking lots full of lazy idiots dueling for the closest parking space so they can go load up their cart with a big screen TV, a case of donuts, an extra large mumu, and an all in one remote so they don't have to waste energy picking up a different one.

On the rare occasion I go into the Walmart, I always feel bad for humanity.

unterhausen

I know amazon is evil, but at least they still have merchandise that's worth buying. If Walmart has something worth buying, you can probably get it cheaper from a specialty store.

sauerwald

My first choice on many purchases is to buy local, and for larger items to request home delivery. If I can't get a local merchant to help with this, then I do go to the internet, and I have found Amazon to be better than many. In many cases, Amazon is just a clearing house for transactions taking place between a small business and a consumer. It is still my responsibility to select products which are high quality. My biggest issue with WalMart is that it is almost impossible to find high quality products there. The WalMart drive to offer the lowest prices has forced their suppliers to sacrifice quality for cost, taking the choice away from their consumers.

wahoonc

And to add insult to injury most major retailers have apparently followed suit. I used to purchase Lincoln Welding brass brushes at Lowe's Home Improvement. I would get 6 months typical use out of them. They now carry some house brand made in China for the same price I used to pay for the Lincoln ones, they only last 2-3 months tops. and this is only a single example...

Aaron

Zaneluke

I love walmart. I do the bulk of my grocery shopping there once a month. I save an incredible amount of money on everyday items.

wahoonc

Funny...they were rated one of the 10 worst supermarkets to shop at. You will pay for those low prices in increased taxes for social services. In some areas the percentage of WM employees on state assistance is in the 40% range. They aren't alone, most major fast food chains are right up there with them.

Aaron

Roody

Based on some recent PBS shows and magazine articles, Amazon is probably a worse employer than Walmart. And I really doubt if Target, KMart, Best Buy and the many other discount retailers are any better.

I think the liberals want the cheapness and convenience of Walmart, so they shop at Amazon and turn a blind eye to their labor and environmental practices. That way we can feel good about not shopping at Walmart, while shopping somewhere else that might be worse.

Roody

I'm really not surprised, since I see many people with this attitude. But it still shocks and saddens me to see otherwise intelligent and progressive people make such a huge logical error.

wahoonc

I think most big retailers would have a hard time passing the "smell" test. The main reason I use Amazon it to purchase items that I have purchased locally in the past, but are no longer available at any store locally. Stupid things like Ginger Altoids, old fashioned flour sifter, old fashioned wire pastry cutters and the list goes on. I do try to source things from locally owned stores first, then local big box stores, followed by mail order/internet order from small businesses where that can be done. Amazon is usually my last resort.


Aaron

RavingManiac

The intelligence of progressives is frequently overestimated.

billyymc

Roody - if you have links to any of those articles or vids about Amazon, I'd be interested in reading/viewing.

Go do some reading and reasearch about how the Walmart got where it is today. And think hard about how their influence has contributed to the throw-it-away mentality prevalent in our society. No other company has done more to lower the quality of all the products it sells than Walmart. Kmart and Target became followers, but the Walmart proudly promoted lower and lower prices knowing it could get them through supplier concessions (many of their suppliers make very little profit selling to the Walmart) and pressuring suppliers to design poorly made products using the cheapest materials possible.

It's possible that Amazon is a worse place to work, but the Walmart is a disgraceful corporation with no focus but the bottom line. Its recent go-green inititatives were put in place to divert attention away from the fact that it sells crappy products that do more to add to the waste stream than any green initiatives could possiby compensate for. If the Walmart wants to be a responsible social citizen (which it isn't obligated to do), the company would sell better quality, repairable products.

BadBoy10

Roody:

I have no idea why you equate shopping decisions with liberalism but nevertheless, I avoid Wal-Mart as we discussed on another thread because I simply don't like the atmosphere/ambience. I shop Amazon and other online retailers because--anonymity and ease of shopping/peace.

I have a few retailers I frequent but for the most part I avoid physically buying from stores. Sure, I may be generalizing but after years of: "cashier won't get off the cell phone, employees bickering, employees cannot discuss the product, employee doesn't know where to find the product, employee stops assisting me to take a 10 minute phone call (but I came to the store), interrupts my transaction to help someone for whatever reason, the long lines, the fussy people, the crying babies, the parents cursing their children, children wandering without supervision, the arguing, employees can't be bothered, 'damn what do you want?' attitudes"---I won't apologize for making choices that benefit my peace.

As I have aged, my patience has decreased so to save myself the aggravation--sure I shop Amazon, Ebay, Overstock. If this makes me a liberal which apparently is a "bad" thing--so be it. I love shopping online.

My biggest issue is that blasted Paypal. A lot of retailers use it but I just want to use my credit card. This is so frustrating. I get the concept of PayPal ---I just wish more online retailers kept it as a choice as opposed to the only way to make a payment.


Billymc: Doesn't WalMart consider America the armpit of its business enterprise?

https://factsanddetails.com/china.php...=9&subcatid=62

gerv 

I think we are confusing two issues here with Amazon:

1. a large company and its responsibility for its supply chain's labor practices
2. a company that does business primarily over the internet and has little local presence

We should remember that there are a number of companies besides Amazon and Walmart who are equally guilty of item #1. The Chinese sweatshop is pretty prevalent and useful to our consumerist mentality.

It's a pity how many shoppers use just price as the determining factor in their purchases.

Recently, I was volunteering in the bike coop and helped a lady with some parts for her new build.
She: How much are those tires?
Me: $15 each.
She: I don't want them. I can get them online for $8.
Me: Plus shipping.
She: Still cheaper.
Me: Not if you have to return them.
She: Oh, I won't need to do that.

Meanwhile I'm thinking... hth can you sell a tire for $8 and still expect the people who manufacture it to eat a reasonable diet? As well, it's ultimately cheaper to buy a slightly better quality tire, say around $30 each. These last much longer.