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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
    Depends who you are listening to I guess.
    US Census Bureau: http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/04/real_estate/home-size/

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerv View Post
    Well... as I said earlier... you can expect to run into more and more of these no-kid families and single people. That seems to be the way of the future.
    LOL! You make it sound like the concept of a car free family is somthing that will happen in the future! I came from a family of 7 back in the 1970's and there were plenty of families on my block that did not have cars. Did the past really change so much? Are you saying in the future, things will be like in the 1970's?

  3. #53
    Been Around Awhile I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dahon.Steve View Post
    LOL! You make it sound like the concept of a car free family is somthing that will happen in the future! I came from a family of 7 back in the 1970's and there were plenty of families on my block that did not have cars. Did the past really change so much? Are you saying in the future, things will be like in the 1970's?
    You really didn't notice any changes in society since 1970?
    Any of your family still live on that same block? Any of them besides you who is car free?

  4. #54
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    I'd say as much as will hold their stuff and them both reasonably and comfortably. How is this less than a subjective question?
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
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  5. #55
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
    I'd say as much as will hold their stuff and them both reasonably and comfortably. How is this less than a subjective question?
    I think it's supposed to be subjective.

    So how about you? How much space do you have? What features of your residence, subjectively, make it good or bad as a carlight (or bike-heavy) home? Where do you store your bikes and work on them? What would you change about your place if you could?
    Last edited by no1mad; 01-17-14 at 12:23 AM. Reason: unwarranted personal jab removed


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  6. #56
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    People need as much house and property as they are comfortable with. No one that happens to be a minimalist can judge what a successful business executive with a wife/Husband and 3 or 4 kids might need any more than Bill Gates would judge what a minimalist needs to live. I know plenty of people that live on board a Boat. I know as many that live in a RV and go from camp site to camp site for years on end. The needs of a person in relation to housing is not directly related to how they transport themselves.

    In my case anything from 750 Square feet to 2500 square feet works well. When I was active in a band I needed a music room and a home office, living room, three bedrooms, a kitchen two bath rooms, a laundry room and a work room. It seems in a free society people should be allowed to buy what they are willing to work for. If you have a good job with a good salary and you can afford a 4000 square foot home with a pool and a small BMX course in the back yard that might seem like a need. I only mention the latter because it took about 50 yards of dirt to make a BMX course in our back yard after my son out grew the swing set. Our house was about 1800 square feet on a large fenced in lot.
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  7. #57
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
    People need as much house and property as they are comfortable with. No one that happens to be a minimalist can judge what a successful business executive with a wife/Husband and 3 or 4 kids might need any more than Bill Gates would judge what a minimalist needs to live. I know plenty of people that live on board a Boat. I know as many that live in a RV and go from camp site to camp site for years on end. The needs of a person in relation to housing is not directly related to how they transport themselves.

    In my case anything from 750 Square feet to 2500 square feet works well. When I was active in a band I needed a music room and a home office, living room, three bedrooms, a kitchen two bath rooms, a laundry room and a work room. It seems in a free society people should be allowed to buy what they are willing to work for. If you have a good job with a good salary and you can afford a 4000 square foot home with a pool and a small BMX course in the back yard that might seem like a need. I only mention the latter because it took about 50 yards of dirt to make a BMX course in our back yard after my son out grew the swing set. Our house was about 1800 square feet on a large fenced in lot.
    It sounds nice. Do you still live in that house? It seems like it would be great to have a BMX course, but it might hurt the resale value.


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  8. #58
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    My house had one when I bought the place, but I let the woods reclaim it.

  9. #59
    Junior Member dbevisjr's Avatar
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    A married cyclist must have enough house to provide a comfortable cushion of space between the spouse and the collection of bikes. Unless of course your spouse also rides. Mine does not.

  10. #60
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbevisjr View Post
    A married cyclist must have enough house to provide a comfortable cushion of space between the spouse and the collection of bikes. Unless of course your spouse also rides. Mine does not.
    Lol. The three men in my household ride, the two women do not....We keep the bikes out of sight in the basement by the kitty litter.


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  11. #61
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    It sounds nice. Do you still live in that house? It seems like it would be great to have a BMX course, but it might hurt the resale value.
    No, it was just part of the property ladder leading to our next house. When it was time to sell we knocked down the course and turned the area into a large garden. But we had lots of back yard. The lot was 75 by 190 feet. We moved to be close to a better High School. The next home was a mountain home that backed up to a National Forest. The boy gave up BMX and got into Snow Boarding.
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
    You really didn't notice any changes in society since 1970?
    Any of your family still live on that same block? Any of them besides you who is car free?
    You have a point. I noticed that by 1990, you could not find parking at all on my block. Yet, public transit increased over the years since the 1970's making it easier to rremain carfree. No family member still lives on the block and I'm the only one who remains carfree.

    What I'm trying to say is that those families who wanted to remain carfree in 1970 can still do it today. It's not something that's going to happen in the future and it's going on today.

  13. #63
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile 155 View Post
    No, it was just part of the property ladder leading to our next house. When it was time to sell we knocked down the course and turned the area into a large garden. But we had lots of back yard. The lot was 75 by 190 feet. We moved to be close to a better High School. The next home was a mountain home that backed up to a National Forest. The boy gave up BMX and got into Snow Boarding.
    We have a huge backyard, but it's just plain bare grass. Well, weeds mainly...that still need to be mowed. If I owned the place, I would plant a big kitchen garden and a few dwarf fruit trees. We will at least do a small garden this spring.


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  14. #64
    Senior Member Mobile 155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    We have a huge backyard, but it's just plain bare grass. Well, weeds mainly...that still need to be mowed. If I owned the place, I would plant a big kitchen garden and a few dwarf fruit trees. We will at least do a small garden this spring.
    That works for me. I looked into living on our boat and cruising whenever we retired. Sold the boat when I sold the mountain home. Looked into living in the RV and and going from one state to another. But that got old after about 18 months. Our house is paid for and I have enough room for Apricots, peaches, tomatoes, squash and herbs. Everything else on my property is native to the area. But we are empty nesters so our "needs" have changed to our preferences.
    Life is like riding a bicycle - in order to keep your balance, you must keep moving. ~Albert Einstein.

  15. #65
    Fixed Kitty wipekitty's Avatar
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    In the apartment where I currently live, we have The Bike Room. Yep: the bikes (along with all my tools and random parts) have their own bedroom. Whichever bike I'm riding the most stays in the kitchen, because that's where the back entry is and linoleum can handle the various slop I drag in.

    For me, the layout and location are more important than the size in an ideal house, though I don't like large houses. The one we're moving to has a very good layout, along with a front vestibule, rear sunporch/mudroom (very useful in this climate), basement, and garage: pretty ideal for bikes. I would have liked a bigger yard, but most of those are in the pro-car parts of town. The community garden is in walking distance, though.

  16. #66
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wipekitty View Post
    In the apartment where I currently live, we have The Bike Room. Yep: the bikes (along with all my tools and random parts) have their own bedroom.
    I lived in a 2-bedroom apartment for many years when I was car-free, and the second bedroom was mainly the Bike Room.

    However, I did want a guest room so I bought a loft bed (like the upper bunk of a bunk bed) and all the bicycles stayed underneath.

  17. #67
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    I had bike rooms also. I had a set of wire shelves for gear. I also had a big table where I put frequently used stuff. This also gave me a work surface for cleaning and repairing equipment, folding and packing clothes, and so forth. It was easy to get things ready the night before a ride, and having everything together, I didn't forget to pack things.


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  18. #68
    Daily Rider Robert C's Avatar
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    I am looking for a townhouse with a garage to tinker in. My wife is fixated on it being three bedroom so we each have a private room to go to and play computer games, read, whatever.
    As a nation we still continue to enjoy a literally unprecedented prosperity; and it is probable that only reckless speculation and disregard of legitimate business methods on the part of the business world can materially mar this prosperity. Theodore Roosevelt, Sixth Annual Message, December 3, 1906

  19. #69
    I STILL miss East Hill :) Rollfast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    I think it's supposed to be subjective.

    So how about you? How much space do you have? What features of your residence, subjectively, make it good or bad as a carlight (or bike-heavy) home? Where do you store your bikes and work on them? What would you change about your place if you could?
    My house has two bedrooms that were fashioned from a really bad remodel and the former back door can be seen behind the bathroom that was once the back porch...the person who did this also didn't hire an electrician so that only two sport reallcan take a 14+ amp load for AC or a space heater other than the laundry spot in the now bathroom.

    The house is maybe 60 years old and has ceramic tile over the original worn narrow siding and that tile is broken or even missing around the kitichen sink pipes, which brings a draft into my bedroom and bathroon without a space heater (on the one other circuit that takes it and it's outlet with a GFCI). Still, I work hard to keep it up and the landlord has been fixing things along the way for the seven and a half years I've lived here, which is far longer than my parents ever lived under a MORTGAGE, I will die here someday as this is the last time I will ever move again, it's a pain in the butt and being on housing assistance it's ludicrous finding a new place. I love my home. I have a second bedroom to use as a work area and music/video storage area and TWO small sheds in the back for bikes and electronics well as a generously large living room.

    The only thing I would change is getting rid of the neighbor's oversexed tomcat.
    Quote Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
    They can't fix expansion joints, because they expand.
    Smile at Miles with a ROLLFAST!

  20. #70
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFit View Post
    Depends who you are listening to I guess. Architects and builders are saying the demand for the smaller home / trend line is reversing and coming back up. But, exactly who is ordering those homes? Nobody that I know; I think cozy, affordable, sustainable is what's hot.
    In this part of suburgatory they are still building large houses and zoning codes appear to require them. We found a sweet building lot in one of the old neighborhoods in town, they want a 1600sf minimum on the ground floor... I have my eye on a lot that is off the end of the area we live in now that is 1.5 acres, no restrictions on that lot other than setbacks that I am aware of. Subdivision across the street is full of 2,000sf and larger houses.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

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  21. #71
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wahoonc View Post
    In this part of suburgatory they are still building large houses and zoning codes appear to require them. We found a sweet building lot in one of the old neighborhoods in town, they want a 1600sf minimum on the ground floor... I have my eye on a lot that is off the end of the area we live in now that is 1.5 acres, no restrictions on that lot other than setbacks that I am aware of. Subdivision across the street is full of 2,000sf and larger houses.

    Aaron
    Why do they have a minimum sf requirement? I mean by that, what good is it supposed to accomplish?


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  22. #72
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Why do they have a minimum sf requirement? I mean by that, what good is it supposed to accomplish?
    Standards. New subdivisions want to maintain a certain standard. Not only do they have certain size standards, but they will also have standards when it comes to the design of the house, paint colour and everything.


    One of my previous jobs was with an architectural firm who, among other things, managed several new subdivisions. The majority of customers I dealt with were asking questions about the specific standards of their subdivision ...

    "I want to paint my fence "pale cocoa" ... is that allowed?"
    "No, sorry, in your subdivision, you can choose from "cappuccino", "tree bark" or "rich loam"

    "I want to build a fence that is 3 feet high ... is that allowed?"
    "No, sorry, in your subdivision, you must build your fences 4 feet high"

  23. #73
    Sophomoric Member Roody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Standards. New subdivisions want to maintain a certain standard. Not only do they have certain size standards, but they will also have standards when it comes to the design of the house, paint colour and everything.


    One of my previous jobs was with an architectural firm who, among other things, managed several new subdivisions. The majority of customers I dealt with were asking questions about the specific standards of their subdivision ...

    "I want to paint my fence "pale cocoa" ... is that allowed?"
    "No, sorry, in your subdivision, you can choose from "cappuccino", "tree bark" or "rich loam"

    "I want to build a fence that is 3 feet high ... is that allowed?"
    "No, sorry, in your subdivision, you must build your fences 4 feet high"
    Sheesh...high standards of mediocrity. A ghetto for the wealthy.


    "Think Outside the Cage"

  24. #74
    Long Distance Cyclist Machka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Sheesh...high standards of mediocrity. A ghetto for the wealthy.
    The idea is that if the subdivision is all of the same standard, it will attract a certain class of people.


    And the standards and regulations in those subdivisions are only temporary. They are lifted after a number of years (10? 20? Depends on the subdivision). After that you can paint your house bright purple with ochre polka-dots if you want. By then, there's a good chance the "certain class of people" will have moved on to a new subdivision.

  25. #75
    Senior Member wahoonc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roody View Post
    Why do they have a minimum sf requirement? I mean by that, what good is it supposed to accomplish?
    Quote Originally Posted by Machka View Post
    Standards. New subdivisions want to maintain a certain standard. Not only do they have certain size standards, but they will also have standards when it comes to the design of the house, paint colour and everything.


    One of my previous jobs was with an architectural firm who, among other things, managed several new subdivisions. The majority of customers I dealt with were asking questions about the specific standards of their subdivision ...

    "I want to paint my fence "pale cocoa" ... is that allowed?"
    "No, sorry, in your subdivision, you can choose from "cappuccino", "tree bark" or "rich loam"

    "I want to build a fence that is 3 feet high ... is that allowed?"
    "No, sorry, in your subdivision, you must build your fences 4 feet high"
    Roody,

    I suspect the size by zoning is to protect builder revenue and/or tax revenues. The property I currently live on is at the back of what was originally a 90 acre farm. The front part belongs to others in my wife's family. We literally have to drive through a salvage yard to get to our property. I have seen pictures of it from 40 years ago and it was beautiful then, now it has been destroyed, paved over with concrete and has old trucks and equipment piled up on it. Not something most people would want to live next too. Our zoning is a mix of agricultural/residential. We can build just about anything we want but still have to meet the residential setbacks. We subdivided the 38 acres last year for financial planning and estate planning reasons. Currently I have an issue with where one of the property lines was put, my FIL is hard headed and stubborn to boot, so we are trying to reason with him and get one of the lines resurveyed so it does not cause problems for us down the road.


    Machka's description sounds more like HOA (Home Owner's Association) those you have some control over by asking questions and finding a subdivision that either doesn't have one or has one that has requirements that meet with your tastes and approvals.

    Aaron
    Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(

    ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.

    "Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
    RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"
    _Nicodemus

    "Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
    Aluminum: barely a hundred
    Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"
    _krazygluon

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