gerv 

Interesting announcement about a high-tech solution for traffic congestion in Los Angeles. Even more amazing is that it's poised to accomplish just about nothing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/us...t.html?hp&_r=0

5 miles in 17 minutes? I know how they could beat that one.

Roody

You got that right. Ride a bike and don't get too hung up on the red lights.

I also wonder how many bike lanes and buses they could have bought for 500 million.

I also wonder how much good those magnetic sensors do for bikes. The ones here don't even trip for bikes once the road has been repaved a couple times.

cycleobsidian

+1

Artkansas 

In my youth, at my best, in L.A. traffic I barely did 5 miles in 20 minutes. More typical, it was 4 miles in 20 minutes. Those traffic signals slow you down.

Roody

Did you ever filter forward and get a little jump on the green light?

Artkansas 

Due to California's lane splitting laws, moving on to the corner was standard operating procedure. But you still had to wait for the light to change. Arkansas's laws are different, so I just hang out in the line of traffic, stupid as that is.

Dahon.Steve

Good article. Actually, it would take me 22 minutes to do five miles but then again, I'm pretty slow.

gerv 

I didn't claim I could do the 17 in 5, but I'm sure someone could. I normally do 4.5 in about 30 minutes during winter months. (Damn granny gear!)

Anyway... aren't you surprised about all the money cities will flush down the toilet to support a doomed technology? Isn't it common knowledge that each new "technique" just creates more traffic?

B. Carfree

L.A. seems to have given up on adding more traffic lanes since they don't decrease travel times. They've added back some mass transit and it appears from afar to be growing in popularity. Now they've likely shot their wad on traffic flow improvements. This is great news for cyclists. It means that the relative time penalty for cycling is going to continue to decrease. If electric cars can get beyond the fringes and become somewhat standard, we won't even have to snort exhaust fumes while we pass the motorized padded cells.

Roody

everybody wants a magic solution so they can keep doing things the same way they always did it.

For example, as I understand it, the synchronized lights are for the convenience of motorists, and the hell with everybody else on the road. They should have some streets where the lights are synchronized for bicycle speeds, like the famous green wave in Copenhagen. And there should be still other streets where they magically turn green for buses only.

Roody

I'm not sure i understand your message. Do you mean that the traffic changes will increase congestion, and ultimately cause motor traffic to go slower, and that will be good for cyclists?

If that's what you mean, I think I agree.

HK2K13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody

I also wonder how many bike lanes and buses they could have bought for 500 million.

Same here.... Cali wastes money on everything.

Walter S

Absolute speed is not everything. You'll get there healthier and with more peace of mind.

gerv 

My first traffic light today, I was stuck behind a hybrid. Other cars were sprewing some foul smoke (it was a little cold out) but the Toyota didn't issue a breath. That one great thing about electric cars and my lungs greatly appreciate it. Many motorists don't realize all the nasty stuff they breath at traffic lights.

gerv 

A much better solution IMHO would be to follow Mayor Boris Johnson in London and make cars pay a toll if they are going to congest the city center....

Many cities are getting on the bicycle and pedestrian bandwagon... for the simple reason that it's cheap and effective. I read this morning that good old Kansas City is investing in bicycle routes . https://fox4kc.com/2013/04/03/more-bi...-coming-to-kc/

Although this seems like it will mainly benefit the signage companies.

harshbarj

Cars and car centric planing is a vicious cycle. You build a street and it becomes clogged with traffic. So you widen the street to make room for more cars. Because of the room, more people use the street and clog the road again with more cars. They again change the road to handle more cars and again more cars show up. They increase the speeds with the idea of increasing throughput which while this does result in faster travel in many cases, also increases accidents and the severity of those accidents. It also does great harm to the pedestrians and cyclists that use the street, as well as the livability of the area. Mass transit, bicycles and walking are the only ways to break this cycle. The more you plan around the automobile the more congestion you get.

Even here in Omaha we are just starting to see this problem as the city heads toward 1 million people. People blame the traffic engineers and light timing when the real problem is sitting in their driveway. Sure they could solve the problem, for perhaps 5-10 years. But then we are back where we started. Until we end this idea that EVERYONE must own their own house and EVERYONE must drive a car, the problem will remain. Built up neighborhoods(like a lot of NYC or most major European cities) with close mass transit and cycle tracks are the way to go.

wahoonc

There is a study floating around somewhere about the amount of pollution that people get while sitting in traffic, IIRC cyclists are actually ahead of the game because they are active and are getting more oxygen in their system vs the passive driver, and the pollution levels in the car cabins was concentrated.

Aaron

agent pombero

Seven million commuters each day the article says.

Yeah, all seven million of you?

LA build this mess. It can be solved. I like this idea:
[h=1]Toll Unsettles Los Angeles Motorists Used to ‘Free’ in Freeways[/h]
Now if only that is expanded everywhere! $15 to ride the freeway is a great way to reduce traffic.

charbucks

The opposite of this has been shown to be true as well. I think the most famous example is probably the removal of the Cheongyye freeway in Seoul, but there have been other cases where removing freeways has generally been considered an improvement. I found this report that highlights a few examples - it's pretty detailed, but even just looking at the pictures in interesting:

https://www.embarq.org/sites/default/...n_Highways.pdf

B. Carfree

I'll rephrase it. L.A. has picked all the low-hanging fruit, which was adding lane-miles to the roads. The traffic planners, who no longer have the option of even considering temporary congestion relief by adding lanes, are now trying to make their car-centered roadways move the cars as efficiently as possible, which isn't very efficient. It's only going to get slower from here, and where they are now puts mass transit and bicycling in reasonably competitive positions from a door-to-door time standpoint. In fact, by the time parking is considered, I wouldn't be surprised if half of the trips in the L.A. area couldn't be accomplished in the same time by bike as by car.

So, their recent changes may temporarily reduce traffic congestion, but ultimately the congestion will get worse. The more congestion, the better for cyclists since the peak speed differences decrease and the average speed for cyclists can then become higher than that of motorists.

B. Carfree

Back in the '80s, I subscribed to the U.C. Berkeley School of Public Health Wellness Letter. I remember an article that claimed the level of carcinogens inside the passenger compartment of a car in traffic is 5-7 times higher than the levels along the roadside. Apparently, quite of bit of what comes out of a tailpipe finds its way into the passenger compartment of the emitting vehicle.

gerv 

I think the first step would be to stop calling them freeways. There's really nothing free about them and users should pay their way.

HK2K13

I guess they should technically call it a 'toll road.'

wahoonc

They built their first toll road here in NC near Raleigh, a lot of people are pissing and moaning about it and how they will NEVER use it. I hope they enjoy wasting time stuck in traffic on the "freeway". I use it occasionally and know people who use it regularly, it typically saves them 30 minutes a day by avoiding the clogged up freeway.

Aaron

Winnershcyclist

London has the solution charge people for sitting in traffic...and do as much as possible to restrict movement