"Carfree future? Not for families"
#1
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
"Carfree future? Not for families"
Here's an Op-ed piece that's a little more moronic than most things that get published in a metro daily. The author fears that his car-centric lifestyle is being threatened by carfree hipsters. Excerpt:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/c...fYI/story.html
You can’t really trust anyone over 30 who doesn’t own a car. They talk a great game of sustainability. Next thing you know they are romantically involved with some guy who owns a Ford Ranger truck and sleeps over half the week. They are keen to beautify their homes with money otherwise spent on car loans and insurance. You can be certain, however, that none of those hardwood floor sanders, cabinet restorers, or kitchen island designers will be pulling up to condo developments in the South End, Jamaica Plain, or the Back Bay in vehicles from the Hubway bike sharing system.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#3
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,788
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
I think his mother filled him with vinegar and water on regular occasions, then hung him up behind the bathroom door when she was done.
Typical "all or nothing" stupidity. "Everybody can't do it, so it's a BAD idea."
Go climb back on your hook and wait for your mother to need you again. Boston deserves better.
Typical "all or nothing" stupidity. "Everybody can't do it, so it's a BAD idea."
Go climb back on your hook and wait for your mother to need you again. Boston deserves better.
#4
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
14 Posts
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#5
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
" You can't really trust anyone over 30 who doesn't own a car "...What the heck is that supposed to mean ??
My elderly relatives who lived in Europe have never owned a vehicle in their life and they all lived into a ripe old age, they always walked, used streetcars, trams , buses and occasional taxi.
My elderly relatives who lived in Europe have never owned a vehicle in their life and they all lived into a ripe old age, they always walked, used streetcars, trams , buses and occasional taxi.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Odenton, MD
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm a big fan of the free market. Obviously there's a developer somewhere who disagrees with the author of this piece, and it will be interesting to see if occupancy rates in these places are good. If they are and people are willing to accept the neighborhood with no parking, then I think that's a bigger vote of confidence than some angry columnist with a bone to pick. (I suspect that they'll be fine)
Also here's a more specific look at the 'minimum parking requirements' that Portland passed in April. It's not exactly as he represents it...
https://www.oregonlive.com/front-porc..._approves.html
Also here's a more specific look at the 'minimum parking requirements' that Portland passed in April. It's not exactly as he represents it...
https://www.oregonlive.com/front-porc..._approves.html
#7
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
" You can't really trust anyone over 30 who doesn't own a car "...What the heck is that supposed to mean ??
My elderly relatives who lived in Europe have never owned a vehicle in their life and they all lived into a ripe old age, they always walked, used streetcars, trams , buses and occasional taxi.
My elderly relatives who lived in Europe have never owned a vehicle in their life and they all lived into a ripe old age, they always walked, used streetcars, trams , buses and occasional taxi.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#8
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
I'm a big fan of the free market. Obviously there's a developer somewhere who disagrees with the author of this piece, and it will be interesting to see if occupancy rates in these places are good. If they are and people are willing to accept the neighborhood with no parking, then I think that's a bigger vote of confidence than some angry columnist with a bone to pick. (I suspect that they'll be fine)
Also here's a more specific look at the 'minimum parking requirements' that Portland passed in April. It's not exactly as he represents it...
https://www.oregonlive.com/front-porc..._approves.html
Also here's a more specific look at the 'minimum parking requirements' that Portland passed in April. It's not exactly as he represents it...
https://www.oregonlive.com/front-porc..._approves.html
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Posts: 15,280
Bikes: Nashbar Road
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2934 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
228 Posts
You can't really trust anyone over 30 who doesn't own a car ..
#10
cycleobsidian
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southwestern Ontario
Posts: 441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I was happily surprised by the comments to the article. Most people thought the author was a little flaky and very inflexible. I am so used to newspaper comments being anti-change that I was surprised to find these to be progressive.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
8 Posts
I wrestle with this parking thing regularly. I chair my neighborhood association. Our little mixed commercial residential 'hood (the original downtown) has been taken over by breweries and restaurants, which is far better than we had it a dozen years ago when the anarchists were threatening to burn everything to the ground to prevent any "gentrification". However, we have a zoning overlay that allows all these entertainment establishments to come in without providing any parking. Thus, folks drive into the residential portion and park in front of other people's houses. Then they spend the night getting drunk. Along about 0200 they return to their cars with a lot of yelling and door slamming. The result is that this little car-hater (me) is beating the bushes looking for a way to help the poor car-addicted darlings find parking places that don't wake up half my neighborhood every night.
Oh, and to add insult to injury, my neighborhood is doing a pretty good job of moving beyond the car. Less than half our residents use cars as their primary means of transportation. (Roughly 45% car, 20% bus, 20% bike, 15% walk). Maybe our motto should be "We go car free so you don't have to." If we had the more typical rate of car usage, there wouldn't be any parking spaces left on the residential streets for the patrons to park in.
Meanwhile, the city traffic planner makes noises about how if parking becomes limited then more people will use some other means of transportation. This sounds nice, but totally ignores the fact that most of the drunks come from places that aren't served by our buses and would be rather dangerous to cycle to when the drunks are on the road in large numbers, like when these folks are heading home from the bars.
Oh, and to add insult to injury, my neighborhood is doing a pretty good job of moving beyond the car. Less than half our residents use cars as their primary means of transportation. (Roughly 45% car, 20% bus, 20% bike, 15% walk). Maybe our motto should be "We go car free so you don't have to." If we had the more typical rate of car usage, there wouldn't be any parking spaces left on the residential streets for the patrons to park in.
Meanwhile, the city traffic planner makes noises about how if parking becomes limited then more people will use some other means of transportation. This sounds nice, but totally ignores the fact that most of the drunks come from places that aren't served by our buses and would be rather dangerous to cycle to when the drunks are on the road in large numbers, like when these folks are heading home from the bars.
#12
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
I wrestle with this parking thing regularly. I chair my neighborhood association. Our little mixed commercial residential 'hood (the original downtown) has been taken over by breweries and restaurants, which is far better than we had it a dozen years ago when the anarchists were threatening to burn everything to the ground to prevent any "gentrification". However, we have a zoning overlay that allows all these entertainment establishments to come in without providing any parking. Thus, folks drive into the residential portion and park in front of other people's houses. Then they spend the night getting drunk. Along about 0200 they return to their cars with a lot of yelling and door slamming. The result is that this little car-hater (me) is beating the bushes looking for a way to help the poor car-addicted darlings find parking places that don't wake up half my neighborhood every night.
Oh, and to add insult to injury, my neighborhood is doing a pretty good job of moving beyond the car. Less than half our residents use cars as their primary means of transportation. (Roughly 45% car, 20% bus, 20% bike, 15% walk). Maybe our motto should be "We go car free so you don't have to." If we had the more typical rate of car usage, there wouldn't be any parking spaces left on the residential streets for the patrons to park in.
Meanwhile, the city traffic planner makes noises about how if parking becomes limited then more people will use some other means of transportation. This sounds nice, but totally ignores the fact that most of the drunks come from places that aren't served by our buses and would be rather dangerous to cycle to when the drunks are on the road in large numbers, like when these folks are heading home from the bars.
Oh, and to add insult to injury, my neighborhood is doing a pretty good job of moving beyond the car. Less than half our residents use cars as their primary means of transportation. (Roughly 45% car, 20% bus, 20% bike, 15% walk). Maybe our motto should be "We go car free so you don't have to." If we had the more typical rate of car usage, there wouldn't be any parking spaces left on the residential streets for the patrons to park in.
Meanwhile, the city traffic planner makes noises about how if parking becomes limited then more people will use some other means of transportation. This sounds nice, but totally ignores the fact that most of the drunks come from places that aren't served by our buses and would be rather dangerous to cycle to when the drunks are on the road in large numbers, like when these folks are heading home from the bars.
A more diverse mix of businesses would probably be nicer for everybody--especially all those carfree people who would most likely love to have groceries, hardware stores, beauty shops, insurance agents, and so forth close to their homes.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#13
Membership Not Required
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On the road-USA
Posts: 16,855
Bikes: Giant Excursion, Raleigh Sports, Raleigh R.S.W. Compact, Motobecane? and about 20 more! OMG
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times
in
14 Posts
I wrestle with this parking thing regularly. I chair my neighborhood association. Our little mixed commercial residential 'hood (the original downtown) has been taken over by breweries and restaurants, which is far better than we had it a dozen years ago when the anarchists were threatening to burn everything to the ground to prevent any "gentrification". However, we have a zoning overlay that allows all these entertainment establishments to come in without providing any parking. Thus, folks drive into the residential portion and park in front of other people's houses. Then they spend the night getting drunk. Along about 0200 they return to their cars with a lot of yelling and door slamming. The result is that this little car-hater (me) is beating the bushes looking for a way to help the poor car-addicted darlings find parking places that don't wake up half my neighborhood every night.
Oh, and to add insult to injury, my neighborhood is doing a pretty good job of moving beyond the car. Less than half our residents use cars as their primary means of transportation. (Roughly 45% car, 20% bus, 20% bike, 15% walk). Maybe our motto should be "We go car free so you don't have to." If we had the more typical rate of car usage, there wouldn't be any parking spaces left on the residential streets for the patrons to park in.
Meanwhile, the city traffic planner makes noises about how if parking becomes limited then more people will use some other means of transportation. This sounds nice, but totally ignores the fact that most of the drunks come from places that aren't served by our buses and would be rather dangerous to cycle to when the drunks are on the road in large numbers, like when these folks are heading home from the bars.
Oh, and to add insult to injury, my neighborhood is doing a pretty good job of moving beyond the car. Less than half our residents use cars as their primary means of transportation. (Roughly 45% car, 20% bus, 20% bike, 15% walk). Maybe our motto should be "We go car free so you don't have to." If we had the more typical rate of car usage, there wouldn't be any parking spaces left on the residential streets for the patrons to park in.
Meanwhile, the city traffic planner makes noises about how if parking becomes limited then more people will use some other means of transportation. This sounds nice, but totally ignores the fact that most of the drunks come from places that aren't served by our buses and would be rather dangerous to cycle to when the drunks are on the road in large numbers, like when these folks are heading home from the bars.
I also agree with Roody that the zoning board messed up by allowing too many bars/brew pubs to be too close together. Again zoning is a tool that can be used to counter act that. In my town they passed an ordnance to only allow so many topless bars in a given square mile area...
Aaron
__________________
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
Webshots is bailing out, if you find any of my posts with corrupt picture files and want to see them corrected please let me know. :(
ISO: A late 1980's Giant Iguana MTB frameset (or complete bike) 23" Red with yellow graphics.
"Cycling should be a way of life, not a hobby.
RIDE, YOU FOOL, RIDE!"_Nicodemus
"Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred
Which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?"_krazygluon
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 705
Bikes: Bianchi circa late 1980s, Surly Cross Check, Kona Blast
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Sounds like the real problem is having so many drinking establishments so close together, and so close to a residential area.
A more diverse mix of businesses would probably be nicer for everybody--especially all those carfree people who would most likely love to have groceries, hardware stores, beauty shops, insurance agents, and so forth close to their homes.
A more diverse mix of businesses would probably be nicer for everybody--especially all those carfree people who would most likely love to have groceries, hardware stores, beauty shops, insurance agents, and so forth close to their homes.
Not that I agree with that, I think current zoning and policies favour the boxstore model right now (as the mall craze is over and many are failing or have decreased profits), but that trend will hopefully pass.
I hate having drunks come in from the burbs to park in my neighbourhood too, but I also like being able to walk down to the bar for a drink, and I like friends to be able to visit and have a place to put the car if needed.
#16
Sophomoric Member
Thread Starter
All of those except for beauty shops are next to impossible to establish at small scale. In USA especially, a handful of companies control those segments; groceries (wal-mart), hardware (lowes/home depot/walmart), pharmacy (walgreens/walmart), or are moving "online" (ie. insurance agents - I haven't seen my insurance agent in over a decade, book stores, WALMART, etc). More realistically, you'll have non-chain restaurants, specialty food stores and maybe an ACE hardware or an independent pharmacy has managed to stay afloat despite massive chain box a 15-20 minute drive away.
Not that I agree with that, I think current zoning and policies favour the boxstore model right now (as the mall craze is over and many are failing or have decreased profits), but that trend will hopefully pass.
I hate having drunks come in from the burbs to park in my neighbourhood too, but I also like being able to walk down to the bar for a drink, and I like friends to be able to visit and have a place to put the car if needed.
Not that I agree with that, I think current zoning and policies favour the boxstore model right now (as the mall craze is over and many are failing or have decreased profits), but that trend will hopefully pass.
I hate having drunks come in from the burbs to park in my neighbourhood too, but I also like being able to walk down to the bar for a drink, and I like friends to be able to visit and have a place to put the car if needed.
__________________
"Think Outside the Cage"
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 705
Bikes: Bianchi circa late 1980s, Surly Cross Check, Kona Blast
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yeah but those look like boutique/specialty shops. Not pre-1950s style local grocers/hardware stores/etc. I can kind of make out one of the signs, and it looks like it says "baskets" (lol).
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times
in
8 Posts
Sounds like the real problem is having so many drinking establishments so close together, and so close to a residential area.
A more diverse mix of businesses would probably be nicer for everybody--especially all those carfree people who would most likely love to have groceries, hardware stores, beauty shops, insurance agents, and so forth close to their homes.
A more diverse mix of businesses would probably be nicer for everybody--especially all those carfree people who would most likely love to have groceries, hardware stores, beauty shops, insurance agents, and so forth close to their homes.
Unfortunately, our zoning laws don't differentiate between a grocery store, a bar, a towing company (we've got one of those too) and a bank. No one wants to be accused of getting in the way of the marketplace with "restrictive" zoning. This trend is getting worse as the planning department is inventing new even less defined zoning codes for new developments in/near my neighborhood.
Back to parking, or the lack thereof. I personally like to see people circling about looking for a place to park. The more time motorists spend hunting down parking spaces the less relative time penalty there is for the folks who choose to ride bikes and I think that is likely to encourage more cycling. Also, for some of these people the two or three blocks they sometimes end up walking to get to the bar/restaurant is the only walking they did all day.
#19
Pedaled too far.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: La Petite Roche
Posts: 12,851
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
7 Posts
My grandmother went car-free in L.A. in her '80s. She put a lot of thought in it and did it properly. No one had to shuttle her around, she had buses and taxis to get her anywhere she needed and all the services she needed were close by.
__________________
"He who serves all, best serves himself" Jack London
#20
In the right lane
I also notice that the bars/restaurants located in tight parking areas tend to have a more relaxed clientele. I think the stroll helps more than a little.
#21
Prefers Cicero
I'm a big fan of the free market. Obviously there's a developer somewhere who disagrees with the author of this piece, and it will be interesting to see if occupancy rates in these places are good. If they are and people are willing to accept the neighborhood with no parking, then I think that's a bigger vote of confidence than some angry columnist with a bone to pick. (I suspect that they'll be fine)
However, that means the city would end up having to subsidize development costs and local resident parking costs, by ensuring the surrounding streets had enough space for any parking by those residents. So the builders and the residents would be externalizing their parking costs - a market distortion.
So, in fact you have to regulate residential construction, and legislate how much built-in parking there should be. We're just quibbling about what the precise right number is. And as your link points out, Portland only allowed buildings not to have parking in a few areas, and has now backtracked slightly, requiring some minimal number of parking spaces in larger new buildings in those areas,; and Boston is tweaking its regulations to allow builders to get away with slightly fewer spots than they used to require, because they have noticed fewer people own cars.
Last edited by cooker; 07-18-13 at 10:56 PM.
#22
Prefers Cicero
Originally Posted by Lawrence Harmon
By definition, reducing or eliminating the number of required on-site parking spaces at new developments will make street parking scarcer for residents who rely on cars to support themselves and their families.
Last edited by cooker; 07-19-13 at 07:10 AM.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Odenton, MD
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
In the other thread on designing apartments to get you out of your car (in Portland), one of the linked articles pointed out that developers like the opportunity to build without parking spaces (instead of having to meeting regulated requirements to provide a certain ratio of on-site parking spots per residential unit), as eliminating parking saves them money or increases revenues. So in a free market, probably more builders would reduce or eliminate parkings spots from their buildings.
However, that means the city would end up having to subsidize development costs and local resident parking costs, by ensuring the surrounding streets had enough space for any parking by those residents. So the builders and the residents would be externalizing their parking costs - a market distortion.
So, in fact you have to regulate residential construction, and legislate how much built-in parking there should be. We're just quibbling about what the precise right number is. And as your link points out, Portland only allowed buildings not to have parking in a few areas, and has now backtracked slightly, requiring some minimal number of parking spaces in larger new buildings in those areas,; and Boston is tweaking its regulations to allow builders to get away with slightly fewer spots than they used to require, because they have noticed fewer people own cars.
However, that means the city would end up having to subsidize development costs and local resident parking costs, by ensuring the surrounding streets had enough space for any parking by those residents. So the builders and the residents would be externalizing their parking costs - a market distortion.
So, in fact you have to regulate residential construction, and legislate how much built-in parking there should be. We're just quibbling about what the precise right number is. And as your link points out, Portland only allowed buildings not to have parking in a few areas, and has now backtracked slightly, requiring some minimal number of parking spaces in larger new buildings in those areas,; and Boston is tweaking its regulations to allow builders to get away with slightly fewer spots than they used to require, because they have noticed fewer people own cars.
#24
Prefers Cicero
I believe that more builders would reduce or eliminate parking spots if given the chance like you said. But a balance would be struck and it would eventually be cost efficient again to build with some parking because some people would demand it. Not every apartment has a washer and dryer, and the city isn't forced to subsidize laundromats. Why is the assumption made that the city should do so for parking?
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Odenton, MD
Posts: 660
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Only on street parking would have to stay part of the public domain due to its location and immediate effect on traffic. I know that San Fransisco has had success with its SFPark initiative. It increases meter rates as spots fill up, and decreases the rate as usage is reduced so that it's treated like an actual commodity instead of a free-bee that people depend on and expect. It also ensures that there are available spots. I like the idea of metering because it puts a direct point-of-purchase expense on usage of the good so that the user is completely aware of the actual cost.