daihard 

I was wondering about the same thing after I replied to your last post. Part of it is probably the fact that most if not all shopping malls are roofed and air-conditioned so walking there is more comfortable than walking outside, especially under the inclement weather.

PlanoFuji

The 'problem' is that Machka is confusing "can't" with "don't want to"...

PlanoFuji

The one we had in my youth was quite sturdy, though I wouldn't be surprised if they are not made as well today. The one we had was at least twenty years old (dating from the early to mid forties) and in regular use for that entire time, long before I remember us using it... Of course my family (and the others) I remember using those devices to walk to/from shopping were doing so largely because they had no other options... At first because cars were simply too expensive, and later because they were used because it was too expensive to own more than one car(and my father used it to get to/from work)...

charbucks

Yup, this happens.

My grocery store is 850 m (I just looked it up), but it's located on a one-way road such that to drive there it's 1.2 km. Add in traffic and a congested parking lot and I'm convinced it's actually less time to walk. Still, I routinely see people coming up from the parking garage of my building carrying one or two grocery bags. It's possible they stopped at the store on the way home from somewhere else, but I think it's just as likely that they drove to the store and back.

Artkansas 

It's 600 feet from my apartment to the local convenience store. Yeah, people drive there and back.

no1mad 

I once saw someone make a 'lunch run' for their co-workers- to the Whataburger that is literally right next door. The drives are so close together, their car almost did not make that tight of turn.

wolfchild

I agree, 1-2 KM walking distance is nothing. My very old grandma used to walk such distances with bags of groceries. I don't understand why it has become such a hardship for most people to walk a short distance... I used to do hikes up to 25km per day while carrying a backpack.

daihard 

It's nothing for you. It was nothing for your grandmother. It's mostly nothing for me, too.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be true for a majority of people here. Like PianoFuji said, "can't" and "don't want to" are two different things.

wolfchild

It is you who is confused...Many people will use an excuse and say, "I can't do this", when deep down they just don't want to do something..." Can't" and" don't want to " has excactly the same meaning for a lot of people.

daihard 

We are talking about those who "don't want to" walk long to the nearby stores, aren't we?

A lot of people don't want to walk 1km to do the grocery shopping every day in the U.S. I don't have hard numbers, but I personally believe it's true based on my experience.

Machka 

That's probably true, but as I said before, it's really sad.

Maybe one of the "criteria" should be ... "reasonably fit". Nevermind finding a neighbourhood that suits you, how about altering yourself to suit a neighbourhood.

And here's something else to ponder .... I wonder how many of people who would not be willing to walk short distances to get groceries spend money on gyms.



(And I addressed "can't" in two of my comments. "Can't" is when you've got a medical difficulty that renders you unable to walk even a short distance.)

gerv 

I'd say quite a few. And many more do neither.

In the last 10 years though there seems to be a growing number who realize they should be getting groceries on foot or by bike. Just give it another decade or so...

I-Like-To-Bike

Can't see much reason to ponder or wonder; some people, probably most, don't share your passion for walking or for swearing off convenience. So what?

I-Like-To-Bike

Doubt it for any large population of people with any other option, unless "growing number" means increasing from too small to measure to an infinitesimally small percentage.

Mobile 155

Do you sell real-estate and bridges in Detroit?

Between 2000 and 2010 the city's population fell by 25 percent, changing its ranking from the nation's 10th largest city to 18th.[17] In 2010, the city had a population of 713,777, more than a 60 percent drop down from a peak population of over 1.8 million at the 1950 census, indicating a serious and long-running decline of Detroit's economic strength.[4] Commensurate with the shift of population and jobs to its suburbs or other states, the city has had to adjust its role within the larger metropolitan area. Downtown Detroit has seen an increased role as an entertainment hub in the 21st century, with the opening of three casinos, new stadiums, and a riverfront revitalization project. However, many neighborhoods remain distressed. The state governor declared a financial emergency in March 2013, appointing an emergency manager. On July 18, 2013, Detroit filed the largest municipal bankruptcy case in U.S. history.

howeeee

I dont know what the point was of printing what everyone knows already, what you and others dont know is Detroit is bicycle heaven. There are weekly rides through the city attract up to 2000 persons on bikes at a time. David Byrne an avid cyclist and rock star calls Detroit one of the top 5 cities for commuting on bicycles in the USA

Detroit is bicycle heaven exactly because it was once a city of 2 million and now is a city of 700 thousand leaving miles and miles of not heavy traveled streets with plenty of bike riding room.

Maybe you should go back and look at the title of the thread.

By the way the Republican governor filed for bankruptcy for the City Of detroit after he suspended democracy and took all power away from the elected government of Detroit, so he could rippoff hard working cops and teachers for their pensions. City of Detroit had no say in it.

Mobile 155

I have looked at the title, but then I don't have palm-palms in my hands because I am not trying to convince anyone that Detroit, or any other rust belt city, is a garden spot. But show me the stats showing all of these people moving to Detroit to offset the population loss. Other than taking your word for it? We see the pictures of the decay, and yes I have seen cities out here as bad off if not as decayed. Still show me the numbers that support your contention that Detroit any kind of heaven, despite what a rock star I don't often look to entertainment people for expertise on real-estate. You made the claim that is true would have kept Detroit solvent. Unless all that has changed since July 18th? Or just explain this from July 19th 2013: https://www.theguardian.com/world/gal...pt-in-pictures Or shouldn't we believe our lying eyes?

Machka 

Of course, there are some people in Canada and Australia who would drive those sorts of distances (I've known some of them!), but there are also a lot of people do not use their cars for short distance trips.

Maybe one reason might be the price of fuel. Fuel is cheap in the US, but quite a bit more expensive here and in Canada. It's a lot cheaper to walk.

no1mad 

Depending on vehicle, and all other expenses aside, a half decent pair of shoes is still cheaper than a tank of fuel. Which is a good thing, considering my almost daily stroll (~2.6 miles or 4.xx km) is starting to take a toll on my sneakers.

Machka 

What pointers would you add (or subtract) to the list in Forbes?

As Forbes says ... "If you love living without a car, it’s important to you to find walkable neighborhoods within your city. There are many benefits to living a pedestrian-oriented lifestyle: For one, it’s healthier! Getting around on foot, by bike or via public transit encourages an active lifestyle and helps keep you slim."

As I said earlier ...

Maybe one of the "criteria" should be ... "reasonably fit". Nevermind finding a neighbourhood that suits you, how about altering yourself to suit a neighbourhood. Remember, we are talking about people who want to adopt a car-free lifestyle.

If we want a car-free lifestyle, we can't expect to have everything right on our doorstep ... we might have to put in a bit of effort.



Did you deliberately choose your home's location so you could be carfree or carlight?

When I was car-free ... no, I did not deliberately choose my home's location so I could be car-free. I came to the realisation that most things I wanted were within easy walking, cycling, or public transportation distance, and then I went car-free.



What qualities of your neighborhood make it good or bad for carfree living?

In my current neighbourhood ...

It would be very easy to be car-free if I didn't want to go to far away from town. Work, the downtown shopping strip, my church, the library, the place where community courses are held, and my Dr are all about 0.5 km away. The dentist and chiropractor are about 0.1 km away. There is a variety of good cycling in the area and some gorgeous scenery.

However, it is a very small town, and is quite remote. There is some public transportation, and we've used it, but it runs twice a day (if that) and isn't overly thrilled about transporting bicycles. So if we want variety in shopping, or if we have to go to a specialist, or if we want to cycle elsewhere or go canoeing ... we need our own private motorised vehicle.

Therefore, I make use of our van maybe once a week.

howeeee

MOnday I am going downtown to meet with about 1500 other bicyclists and go on what is a weekly 15 mile ride through the city. I am sure your city has the same type of thing weekly. The last Critical mass ride in Detroit had 2000 riders,,,the last one in NYC had 10 lol While I am having fun Monday with 1500 other bicyclists I will worry about whether you believe I am or not lol

wolfchild

Critical mass is just another protest. What's the point ?.. I doubt that a CM makes neighbourhoods more bike friendly, or promotes transportational cycling.

Ekdog

Kudos to you and the other CM cyclists!

Don't let anybody convince you that public protest is a waste of time. I heard such drivel from naysayers for years and now, thanks in large part to demonstrations by cyclists, my city now has 190 kilometers of physically separated bike lanes (to be expanded by another 190 km. by 2020) and a popular bike share system.

Keep at it! Never give up!

Newspaperguy

I know one person who will drive for all distances, even as short as half a block. I think she is no longer able to walk those distances.

Mobile 155

It would be more honest care about the condition of your city you love it anyway. I could respect that. You aren't required to be concerned where your city rates as one of the most dangerous places to live in the US. https://money.cnn.com/gallery/real_es...ies/index.html

I would commend you on making a personal choice to make the best out of your situation. I am just saying that in the context of the Forbes article Detroit wouldn't be high on the list of communities many families or even young professionals would choose if they were going to pick a place to live car free. Your chamber of commerce type of assurances aside and protest rides being secondary I wouldn't see the requirements of Forbes as being met.

The thing that was asked was what would we add to the list and I would only add a few things. I would want a community where people didn't suggest I remove all the identifying emblems from my bike and perhaps pain it flat black or some other camouflaged color plus add a ten pound chain and case hardened lock just to ride around town and stop by a store. I believe you should be able to ride whatever you like with maybe a light lock and have bike racks in front of the stores so you could shop. And when you came out you should be able to "expect" you bike to be there. Yes there will be times when that doesn't happen but it should be the exception.

What I have a hard time with is that the problems in Detroit are someone else's fault rather than their elected leaders. That young people are flooding into Detroit because it is so much fun even if the numbers don't show that population trend.

But based on what Forbes said and what I said I would add where I live would come closer than Detroit and yet I still am not going to embellish my area to make it an example of what a car free community should be. Hence the comment about selling real-estate. Others have posted the efforts Detroit has been making but that hasn't changed the migration patterns as of this date.