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Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

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Old 12-15-13, 03:31 PM   #1
Gasbag
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Bicycle road use tax?

This recent news article caught my eye: http://www.npr.org/2013/08/15/212311...x-revenues-ebb

As fuel purchases continue to decline and vehicles become more efficient, tax revenues to build and maintain roads are in a decline. Then there are the electric vehicles that pay nothing in fuel taxes. To make up for the lost revenue, states are beginning to look at assessing extra fees on vehicles that use minimal to no fuel to replace the lost revenue.

Bicycles, in the by and large have had a free ride. As they continue to become the primary source of transportation for many people, should they also be looked at as a source of revenue to maintain the roads they travel on? How could that be implemented, with a transponder maybe?

Just some food for thought and lets try to keep it civil.
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Old 12-15-13, 04:04 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Gasbag View Post
This recent news article caught my eye: http://www.npr.org/2013/08/15/212311...x-revenues-ebb

As fuel purchases continue to decline and vehicles become more efficient, tax revenues to build and maintain roads are in a decline. Then there are the electric vehicles that pay nothing in fuel taxes. To make up for the lost revenue, states are beginning to look at assessing extra fees on vehicles that use minimal to no fuel to replace the lost revenue.

Bicycles, in the by and large have had a free ride. As they continue to become the primary source of transportation for many people, should they also be looked at as a source of revenue to maintain the roads they travel on? How could that be implemented, with a transponder maybe?

Just some food for thought and lets try to keep it civil.
An older article, but still food for thought.
http://grist.org/article/2010-09-27-...uld-be-unfair/


"Local roads, where you most likely do the bulk of your daily bicycling, are a different story. The cost of building, maintaining, and managing traffic on these local roads adds up to about 6 cents per mile for each motor vehicle. The cost contributed to these roads by the drivers of these motor vehicles through direct user fees? 0.7 cents per mile.The rest comes out of the general tax fund......"
......"If you don’t drive a car, even for some trips, you are subsidizing those who do — by a lot."

Another article on gas tax and general fund spending percentages by state.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/gas...-road-spending


"Nationwide in 2010, state and local governments raised $37 billion in motor fuel taxes and $12 billion in tolls and non-fuel taxes, but spent $155 billion on highways.[3] In other words, highway user taxes and fees made up just 32 percent of state and local expenses on roads. The rest was financed out of general revenues, including federal aid."
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Old 12-15-13, 04:26 PM   #3
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Thank for the links, especially the article by Elly Blue. I just learned of her this week and intend to read more of her writings.

Edit: The book reviews for Ms. Blues book at Amazon are, uhm, well, hmmm, ahhh, whatever http://www.amazon.com/Everyday-Bicyc...pr_product_top

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Old 12-15-13, 04:53 PM   #4
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Thank for the links, especially the article by Elly Blue. I just learned of her this week and intend to read more of her writings.
No problem.....I've heard plenty of "Share the Road? Share the Load!" comments from people, in my locale, in their thinking that cyclists are basically freeloaders when it comes to paying for roads, when it's really not the case, especially when road wear caused by the majority of bicycle commuters is virtually indistinguishable from wear caused by weathering.
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Old 12-15-13, 04:53 PM   #5
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Road use tax for bicycles? I already more pay way more than my "fair" share of road tax for cycling... FWIW I have 3 licensed farm trucks that I have to pay taxes on every year, buy plates for them, pay gas taxes, etc. Two of them haven't been off farm in several years. When and if car and truck owners start paying enough taxes to fully fund roads and they lower my property and sales taxes (that also pay for roads) and only then can they consider taxing my bicycles for road usage.

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Old 12-15-13, 05:09 PM   #6
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The article does mention the main cause of the gas tax shortfall peripherally but devotes most of its attention to the fuel efficient hybrids and electrics that are only a minor contributor currently. The main issue at the moment is that unlike most other taxes, the gas tax is not automatically adjusted for inflation (i.e. as wages go up so do income tax collections, as prices rise so do sales tax receipts, but the gas tax is fixed at a set number of cents/gallon until the legislature acts to raise it).

When I first started to drive the price of gas was about $.25/gallon of which 16% (4 cents) was the federal gas tax. Now I pay about $3.60/gallon of which only 5% (18 cents) is the federal gas tax. If we were still paying 16% of our gas cost as the federal gas tax it would raise our gas prices but there wouldn't be any shortfall in the Highway Trust Fund
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Old 12-15-13, 05:11 PM   #7
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I don't think cyclists should pay road user fees for two reasons:
  1. Collection of bike fees (taxes) would be inefficient; many cyclists would become scofflaws.
  2. The roads are not properly designed for bikes. Cyclists are second class citizens on the streets of America, so they shouldn't be charged for an inferior service.

However, I do believe that carfree people in general (distinct from cyclists) should share some of the costs of the highway system. We carfree people all share in the benefits of good roads, even if we don't drive on them. The things we buy are delivered by trucks that use the roads. Our employers rely on roads to keep their businesses open. Emergency services require good roads in order to help us. Communities are generally more prosperous and happy when transportation and infrastructure are in good shape.

I think that fuel taxes should be raised a certain amount (possibly by half) to fund needed improvements in transportation infrastructure. Higher fuel taxes for trucks would be passed along to consumers--drivers and carfree alike--so all would be sharing the costs for roads that we all benefit from.
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Old 12-15-13, 05:53 PM   #8
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I'd be happy to pay my share considering I utilize approx 1/8 the road infrastructure as a car and travel between a quarter and a third of the distance on average. My quick back of the napkin math comes out to about 20 to 30 bucks a year. Pretty sure I've already covered that in money that's been re-routed from my property taxes towards maintaining the roads, though.
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Old 12-15-13, 06:32 PM   #9
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I don't think cyclists should pay road user fees for two reasons:
  1. Collection of bike fees (taxes) would be inefficient; many cyclists would become scofflaws.
  2. The roads are not properly designed for bikes. Cyclists are second class citizens on the streets of America, so they shouldn't be charged for an inferior service.

However, I do believe that carfree people in general (distinct from cyclists) should share some of the costs of the highway system. We carfree people all share in the benefits of good roads, even if we don't drive on them. The things we buy are delivered by trucks that use the roads. Our employers rely on roads to keep their businesses open. Emergency services require good roads in order to help us. Communities are generally more prosperous and happy when transportation and infrastructure are in good shape.

I think that fuel taxes should be raised a certain amount (possibly by half) to fund needed improvements in transportation infrastructure. Higher fuel taxes for trucks would be passed along to consumers--drivers and carfree alike--so all would be sharing the costs for roads that we all benefit from.
This is how I think. Also, it is why I'm perfectly OK with my soon-to-be property tax going towards paying for the roads. I don't even have to use them personally in order for them to be beneficial to me.

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Old 12-15-13, 06:53 PM   #10
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This whole idea of forcing cyclists to pay a special tax just doesn't make sense, it's a stupid idea. I already pay enough taxes...And how would you collect a "special bicycle tax" from people who only use their bikes for exercise or use their bikes as toys ??
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Old 12-15-13, 07:01 PM   #11
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However, I do believe that carfree people in general (distinct from cyclists) should share some of the costs of the highway system. We carfree people all share in the benefits of good roads, even if we don't drive on them. The things we buy are delivered by trucks that use the roads. Our employers rely on roads to keep their businesses open. Emergency services require good roads in order to help us. Communities are generally more prosperous and happy when transportation and infrastructure are in good shape.
Car-free people already pay enough taxes...Income tax takes almost half of my paycheque, and then I still have to pay HST sales tax whenever I go to a store to buy something. No thank you I don't need anymore taxes.
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Old 12-15-13, 07:16 PM   #12
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No taxation without representation

Won't be long before every car is taxed by the mileage used, roads in areas that don't freeze every winter are one thing, roads that freeze every winter are extremely expensive to maintain, yes, gas is going away, electric is still $, and the price isn't dropping.

So recreational bicyclist might not want to pay a road tax but commuters might be required to, a camera every 1/4 mile will stop the cheaters or...might be time to go off road
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Old 12-15-13, 07:16 PM   #13
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Better that like the richest 1% sector.. reduce my taxes, and to make up the shortfall,
I'll Loan the Government the money and they pay me back with return of the principal + Intrest.
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Old 12-15-13, 07:20 PM   #14
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The only bike-related tax idea I've heard of that makes any sense to me is what my city already does: collect an excise tax on the sales of new bicycles ($4.00 per bike here in the Springs) with all funds collected earmarked for spending on bike infrastructure.
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Old 12-15-13, 07:26 PM   #15
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The only bike-related tax idea I've heard of that makes any sense to me is what my city already does: collect an excise tax on the sales of new bicycles ($4.00 per bike here in the Springs) with all funds collected earmarked for spending on bike infrastructure.
How much do they collect compared to how much they spend on collecting the tax? What have the done with the revenue?
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Old 12-15-13, 07:47 PM   #16
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This recent news article caught my eye: http://www.npr.org/2013/08/15/212311...x-revenues-ebb

As fuel purchases continue to decline and vehicles become more efficient, tax revenues to build and maintain roads are in a decline. Then there are the electric vehicles that pay nothing in fuel taxes. To make up for the lost revenue, states are beginning to look at assessing extra fees on vehicles that use minimal to no fuel to replace the lost revenue.

Bicycles, in the by and large have had a free ride. As they continue to become the primary source of transportation for many people, should they also be looked at as a source of revenue to maintain the roads they travel on? How could that be implemented, with a transponder maybe?

Just some food for thought and lets try to keep it civil.
I think the real point is they based road building on Fuel taxes and general funds and when either has a short fall they will start looking for a substitute. My state is having the same problem. We where encouraged to dive lee and but more fuel efficient vehicles. Seems we did to such a degree we need more income to fix the roads. The Feds have the same have the same problem. What I have been reading is they now suggest the if we even do away with ICE all together they will need a whole new source for road tax. The Feds are suggesting a VMT tax. That means the "vehicle" however it is powered will be taxed by how much it uses the road. Seems like they are thinking a Mandated GPS unit. Don't even go to the "they can't mandate that" because they have already mandated we buy insurance and by the time I post this the "they" will have a copy in a file somewhere. So I guess they could mandate a GPS unit for a Bicycle it they wanted. A Garmin 200 is much bigger than a watch face so the unit doesn't have to be big. I may not like it but it isn't likely we will get to vote on it either.
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Old 12-15-13, 08:04 PM   #17
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I think the real point is they based road building on Fuel taxes and general funds and when either has a short fall they will start looking for a substitute. My state is having the same problem. We where encouraged to dive lee and but more fuel efficient vehicles. Seems we did to such a degree we need more income to fix the roads. The Feds have the same have the same problem. What I have been reading is they now suggest the if we even do away with ICE all together they will need a whole new source for road tax. The Feds are suggesting a VMT tax. That means the "vehicle" however it is powered will be taxed by how much it uses the road. Seems like they are thinking a Mandated GPS unit. Don't even go to the "they can't mandate that" because they have already mandated we buy insurance and by the time I post this the "they" will have a copy in a file somewhere. So I guess they could mandate a GPS unit for a Bicycle it they wanted. A Garmin 200 is much bigger than a watch face so the unit doesn't have to be big. I may not like it but it isn't likely we will get to vote on it either.
I'm pretty sure that all cars are manufactured with GPS built into a "black box"? But I doubt if the public would accept this type of tax, so it probably won't be enacted.
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Old 12-15-13, 09:20 PM   #18
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Roads are built the way that they are to withstand the abuse of cars and especially trucks. Bike cause no wear to the roads. Bicycle infrastructure is just as much for cars as it is for bikes, get those stinking bikes out of my way.
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Old 12-15-13, 09:28 PM   #19
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Some good responses here both yay & nay. I didn't and still don't have a strong opinion either direction.

The piece of the planet that I call home just recently got our first real bicycle infrastructure, about a half mile lane from a busy intersection to the local mall. It was tied to a major road project at the interstate highway and most likely was a provision of matching funds. We do have recreational trails but they aren't useful for meeting the needs of living, just the wants joy riding. The economic downturn hit this area hard and we are still lagging (dead last) in the recovery statewide.

I have seen more bicycle commuters here each passing year, though the numbers are still very few. I am also seeing more people using their bicycles for shopping. I suppose I could support a local use tax IF it was reasonable and IF the money was used directly to improve bicycling infrastructure.

I really enjoy restoring bicycles and have a small fleet of them so that could be problematic. Plastering a tax sticker on one of my restored bikes would also be a deal breaker.

At the state level, Illinois has a nasty habit of making tax dollars disappear into thin air and playing favorites with road expenditures. When the Governor was from our county, the roads were beautiful. After he went to prison, not so much.
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Old 12-15-13, 10:13 PM   #20
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Roads are built the way that they are to withstand the abuse of cars and especially trucks. Bike cause no wear to the roads. Bicycle infrastructure is just as much for cars as it is for bikes, get those stinking bikes out of my way.
Dammit man, wouldn't ya know, auto infrastructure took over all the good travel routes, so here I am invading "their turf".
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Old 12-15-13, 11:58 PM   #21
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Some good responses here both yay & nay. I didn't and still don't have a strong opinion either direction.

The piece of the planet that I call home just recently got our first real bicycle infrastructure, about a half mile lane from a busy intersection to the local mall. It was tied to a major road project at the interstate highway and most likely was a provision of matching funds. We do have recreational trails but they aren't useful for meeting the needs of living, just the wants joy riding. The economic downturn hit this area hard and we are still lagging (dead last) in the recovery statewide.

I have seen more bicycle commuters here each passing year, though the numbers are still very few. I am also seeing more people using their bicycles for shopping. I suppose I could support a local use tax IF it was reasonable and IF the money was used directly to improve bicycling infrastructure.

I really enjoy restoring bicycles and have a small fleet of them so that could be problematic. Plastering a tax sticker on one of my restored bikes would also be a deal breaker.

At the state level, Illinois has a nasty habit of making tax dollars disappear into thin air and playing favorites with road expenditures. When the Governor was from our county, the roads were beautiful. After he went to prison, not so much.
Just about every state does the same thing. Road improvement issues will cause a bond or initiative to be put before the voters and in some cases it will pass. But for some reason money gets siphoned off so not all of the money gets to roads. So they try to get more from the voters or find a way around the voters. The second option is getting harder to do. Doesn't mean they won't try.
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Old 12-17-13, 08:08 AM   #22
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Meawhile, in France, those who commute by bike will be paid extra:

http://bicihome.com/en-francia-los-q...-sueldo-extra/

Vive le France!

Last edited by Ekdog; 12-17-13 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 12-17-13, 08:39 AM   #23
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BRB moving to France.

Oh. I don't speak French. Sólo Inglés y un poco de Español.

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Old 12-17-13, 09:36 AM   #24
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Most bicycle taxes are now viewed as revenue neutral or even a loss for the collecting agency. Such a tax would be a lot of trouble to collect and even more trouble to enforce. Since almost every household in the nation has a bicycle or two, much easier to raise the tax rate...
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Old 12-17-13, 02:19 PM   #25
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Hell I'd like to see them try ! They can ask all they want but the government ain't getting a cent from my cycling .
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