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-   -   Stipulated Working Definitions (http://www.bikeforums.net/living-car-free/928363-stipulated-working-definitions.html)

memebag 01-02-14 07:58 PM

Stipulated Working Definitions
 
Roody asked me to start a thread to collect all of the stipulated working definitions for the Living Car Free sub forum.

car - a privately owned motor vehicle used for the personal transport of individuals for non-commercial endeavors which is not more or less permanently sitting in a camping spot.

rebel1916 01-02-14 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memebag (Post 16377411)
Roody asked me to start a thread to collect all of the stipulated working definitions for the Living Car Free sub forum.

car - a privately owned motor vehicle used for the personal transport of individuals for non-commercial endeavors which is not more or less permanently sitting in a camping spot.

I will not stipulate that that is the definition of car.

memebag 01-02-14 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel1916 (Post 16377436)
I will not stipulate that that is the definition of car.

Oh. I was led to believe this had already been decided and accepted by the participants here. Or at least stipulated.

bragi 01-02-14 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memebag (Post 16377411)
Roody asked me to start a thread to collect all of the stipulated working definitions for the Living Car Free sub forum.

car - a privately owned motor vehicle used for the personal transport of individuals for non-commercial endeavors which is not more or less permanently sitting in a camping spot.

What's the purpose of defining what a car is?

ThermionicScott 01-02-14 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bragi (Post 16377822)
What's the purpose of defining what a car is?

I imagine the purpose of this exercise is to allow a person who must use a motor vehicle for work to still call themselves "car-free."

wipekitty 01-02-14 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 16377846)
I imagine the purpose of this exercise is to allow a person who must use a motor vehicle for work to still call themselves "car-free."

This is good, I think. I would imagine that a person who (a) does not drive to work or for personal errands, but uses vehicles at work, or (b) uses vehicles on their property for agriculture, etc. but not for personal errands, might be plausibly considered car-free.

In the original definition, 'used' seems important. I wonder if people who own inoperable vehicles or own a car but don't drive because of license suspensions would be considered car-free. If people like this are self-sufficient and are not relying upon people with cars for their transportation, I'd be happy to consider them car free. If they're getting rides all the time with friends and family, then probably not.

memebag 01-02-14 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bragi (Post 16377822)
What's the purpose of defining what a car is?

My understanding is that by defining car this way, people can live in a recreational vehicle and call themselves "car free".

Apparently this was all established some time ago by the participants of this sub forum. I'm just providing a thread to collect these peculiarities of language so newcomers will be able to translate.

Roody 01-02-14 11:30 PM

I may be wrong, but I believe the purpose is a dig at me, since I was misquoted and quoted out of context in the OP.

memebag 01-02-14 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 16377890)
I may be wrong, but I believe the purpose is a dig at me, since I was misquoted and quoted out of context in the OP.

I tried to distill your definition of a "car" from this post:

"On LCF, we have stipulated a working definition of car. A car is a privately owned motor vehicle used for the personal transport of individuals. Under this definition, taxis, ambulances, and commercial automobiles are not cars. An RV is a car if it's being used to transport individuals involved in a non-commercial endeavor. When it's sitting more or less permanently in a camping spot, it's not a car. It's a shelter."

Feel free to clarify if I've misunderstood.

And this isn't out of context. You asked me to start this thread:

"If this issue of definitions interests you, please start a new thread on the topic, and allow this thread to return to the subject of living in an RV. If you don't know how to start a thread, PM me and I will be happy to explain it."

I figured out how to start a thread on my own. You're welcome.

I-Like-To-Bike 01-02-14 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memebag (Post 16377889)
My understanding is that by defining car this way, people can live in a recreational vehicle and call themselves "car free".

Apparently this was all established some time ago by the participants of this sub forum. I'm just providing a thread to collect these peculiarities of language so newcomers will be able to translate.

It is immaterial how a car and/or an RV is defined for some participants of this sub forum; being a Real Car-Free Person™ is more a righteous state of mind and collection of PC beliefs, than use/nonuse or ownership of motorized vehicles.

Machka 01-03-14 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memebag (Post 16377411)
Roody asked me to start a thread to collect all of the stipulated working definitions for the Living Car Free sub forum.

car - a privately owned motor vehicle used for the personal transport of individuals for non-commercial endeavors which is not more or less permanently sitting in a camping spot.

Disagree.


Quote:

Originally Posted by memebag (Post 16377889)
Apparently this was all established some time ago by the participants of this sub forum. I'm just providing a thread to collect these peculiarities of language so newcomers will be able to translate.

No such definitions have ever been established.


From what you quoted: "On LCF, we have stipulated a working definition of car" must be a "royal we".

Darth Lefty 01-03-14 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bragi (Post 16377822)
What's the purpose of defining what a car is?

Taxation

Roody 01-03-14 01:54 AM

Here's a link to the latest of several discussions about defining carfree for the purposes of this forum. There are some good posts from different points of view, also a little pot stirring by a couple people who were later banned from BF.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...carlight-quot/

One point that I'm trying to keep in mind is that the purpose of a working definition is to reduce quibbling, not fan the flames. Personally, I'm willing to accept any definition that has some consensual agreement behind it.

Machka 01-03-14 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 16378032)
Here's a link to the latest of several discussions about defining carfree for the purposes of this forum. There are some good posts from different points of view, also a little pot stirring by a couple people who were later banned from BF.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...carlight-quot/

One point that I'm trying to keep in mind is that the purpose of a working definition is to reduce quibbling, not fan the flames. Personally, I'm willing to accept any definition that has some consensual agreement behind it.

That's the latest one? It's over 2 years old ... and probably best left lying back in mid-2011 (but I tend to agree with zoltani).

As for definitions, why do we need to recreate the wheel ... so to speak.

If you want a definition for "car" ... pick one:
http://www.onelook.com/?w=car&ls=a

mister 01-03-14 05:00 AM

Why not stick with what the forum description says? "If your bike is your only transportation..." Anything else is car-lite.

Machka 01-03-14 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mister (Post 16378139)
Why not stick with what the forum description says? "If your bike is your only transportation..." Anything else is car-lite.

Ah ... but what about walking? :D

mister 01-03-14 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machka (Post 16378143)
Ah ... but what about walking? :D

Then they can go to walkingforums.net :D

Ekdog 01-03-14 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mister (Post 16378139)
Why not stick with what the forum description says? "If your bike is your only transportation..." Anything else is car-lite.

I use trains and buses as well as my bike, so where does that leave me? If I were to rely 100% on my bike for transportation, I still wouldn't be vehicle free because I rely on trucks, trains and planes to deliver the goods I need to survive. As you can see, it isn't easy to define "car free".

mister 01-03-14 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekdog (Post 16378183)
I use trains and buses as well as my bike, so where does that leave me? If I were to rely 100% on my bike for transportation, I still wouldn't be vehicle free because I rely on trucks, trains and planes to deliver the goods I need to survive. As you can see, it isn't easy to define "car free".

Public transportation is included in the definition of car-free in the forum description. If requiring other vehicles for the delivery of goods is not included within the definition of car-free, and one relies on said goods, then one isn't car-free. It seems to me it isn't the definition that's the issue; rather it is one's acceptance that they are not truly as car-free as they would like to be. The definition is simple.

memebag 01-03-14 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekdog (Post 16378183)
I use trains and buses as well as my bike, so where does that leave me? If I were to rely 100% on my bike for transportation, I still wouldn't be vehicle free because I rely on trucks, trains and planes to deliver the goods I need to survive. As you can see, it isn't easy to define "car free".

Defining "car free" seems pretty easy to me. Before the invention and widespread adoption of the automobile, everyone was "car free". Once they started to depend on cars they stopped being "car free". All of these semantic contortions seem like they are trying to cover up a dodge. If your goal is to reduce dependence on cars then the names on the titles are irrelevant.

gerv 01-03-14 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by memebag (Post 16378299)
All of these semantic contortions seem like they are trying to cover up a dodge.

um... :)

GodsBassist 01-03-14 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roody (Post 16377890)
I may be wrong, but I believe the purpose is a dig at me, since I was misquoted and quoted out of context in the OP.

I believe this is accurate.

GodsBassist 01-03-14 10:34 AM

I think 'car free' is as vague as 'vegetarian' used to be. Lacto-ovo? Pescetarian? Vegan? Flexitarian? Jain Vegetarian? Fruitarianism?

Some people think that car free should be no combustion engine use at all? Do taxis fit the definition? Car share? Spouse owns a car? Access to neighbor's car for emergencies? Living in a school bus?


To be honest though, I think 95% of the people on this forum accept and understand that car free is probably a fairly flexible term, and don't really care. The remaining few are just trying to stir the pot or claim that everybody's a hypocrite by trying to twist the definition to whatever best suits their cynicism at the time.

memebag 01-03-14 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GodsBassist (Post 16378900)
To be honest though, I think 95% of the people on this forum accept and understand that car free is probably a fairly flexible term, and don't really care. The remaining few are just trying to stir the pot or claim that everybody's a hypocrite by trying to twist the definition to whatever best suits their cynicism at the time.

Well that sounds pretty cynical. It's possible that some people read this sub forum without any understanding of the special definitions assigned to words to make "car free" true for some value of "car". For instance, I never imagined that a recreational vehicle wasn't a kind of car in this sub form.

Smallwheels 01-03-14 11:42 AM

To me if you don't drive a car for personal needs and you don't own one you're car free. If lumping in receiving goods that were ever transported by a motor vehicle, then only people living off grid on private land who grow their own food and harvest their own cotton to hand weave their own clothing will be truly car free. Let's not forget the people living without cars who use sharp rocks to shear their sheep for making wool clothing too.

Let's not be ridiculous about this.

I'm about to go to a store using my Xootr, wearing clothing, and I'll bring back things in my back pack. Everything other than my body came to me via a store that got those things from a truck. Even the food that went into forming my body was transported by a truck.

If you don't own a car and you don't regularly use one for personal use then you're car free to me.

Cars are great tools. Some people need them and that is fine with me. I like the idea of car light people doing what they can to minimize the usage of their cars. They are being responsible for minimizing pollution and not clogging the streets when the car isn't needed. Good for them.


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