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Old 01-11-14, 02:54 PM   #51
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It's been proven that the best way to loose weight is to follow a high fat-moderate protein-low carb diet.....

High carbohadrate, low-fat vegetarian diets are not healthy because they spike your insulin a lot and will eventually lead to nutritional defeciencies, diabetes and obesity. I am not making this up, there is actually science behind it. Do a search and you'll find out.
All the searching I have done has led me to the exact opposite conclusions. The key to successful dieting is consuming fewer calories than you need. High carb, high protein, high fat, whatever. Eat less than you burn off, and work on developing a balanced diet to promote long-term health.

I have been a high-carb, moderate fat vegetarian for over 15 years, and my weight, blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, are just fine. I eat some dairy, but far less than most people. My hair and nails have not fallen out and my bones have not crumbled. If something bad was going to happen, I suppose it would have started by now.
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Old 01-11-14, 04:35 PM   #52
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I have been a high-carb, moderate fat vegetarian for over 15 years, and my weight, blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, are just fine. I eat some dairy, but far less than most people. My hair and nails have not fallen out and my bones have not crumbled. If something bad was going to happen, I suppose it would have started by now.
I think there's a lot to recommend Dr. Joel Fuhrman's high-density nutrient ideas. But there's no way I can eat as many veggies as he recommends. I just don't have the appetite to eat that much.
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Old 01-11-14, 04:52 PM   #53
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I think there's a lot to recommend Dr. Joel Fuhrman's high-density nutrient ideas. But there's no way I can eat as many veggies as he recommends. I just don't have the appetite to eat that much.
Fuhrmans' ideas aren't practical for me either, but he sure does give you another way of looking at food and nutrition. One thing he wrote was that, per 100 calories of food, lettuce has more grams of protein than steak. I think that's true, but to me it was a very shocking fact. The problem is, to get enough protein from lettuce alone, you would have to eat a washtub full of lettuce. That would be tedious for me, even though I love a big salad. I can do it about once a week, but that's about it.
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Old 01-11-14, 05:22 PM   #54
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All the searching I have done has led me to the exact opposite conclusions. The key to successful dieting is consuming fewer calories than you need. High carb, high protein, high fat, whatever. Eat less than you burn off, and work on developing a balanced diet to promote long-term health.

I have been a high-carb, moderate fat vegetarian for over 15 years, and my weight, blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, are just fine. I eat some dairy, but far less than most people. My hair and nails have not fallen out and my bones have not crumbled. If something bad was going to happen, I suppose it would have started by now.
Long time ago I got curious one day and decided to try and experiment with low- fat, high-carb vegetarian diet. I was very careful to eat a wide variety of foods and I also made sure to combine foods to get complete protein...I am not impressed... Vegeterian diet never felt right to me and I just couldn't do it. I felt this emptiness like something was missing. It also had negative effect on my strength and I had a more difficult time lifting weights. After not eating steak for a long time I started eating steak and liver and it made me feel great, it felt right.
After that negative experience I never want to go back to eating like a vegetarian. I think vegetarianism is more about ideology and personal moral issues then health.
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Old 01-11-14, 05:36 PM   #55
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All the searching I have done has led me to the exact opposite conclusions. The key to successful dieting is consuming fewer calories than you need. High carb, high protein, high fat, whatever. Eat less than you burn off, and work on developing a balanced diet to promote long-term health.

I have been a high-carb, moderate fat vegetarian for over 15 years, and my weight, blood pressure, blood sugar, cholesterol, are just fine. I eat some dairy, but far less than most people. My hair and nails have not fallen out and my bones have not crumbled. If something bad was going to happen, I suppose it would have started by now.
I've been eating a vegetarian diet for 20 years and my health is excellent. And not only have my hair and nails remained healthy, I managed to gestate two robust babies as well. Oh, the crap I heard during my pregnancies.
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Old 01-11-14, 07:07 PM   #56
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Long time ago I got curious one day and decided to try and experiment with low- fat, high-carb vegetarian diet. I was very careful to eat a wide variety of foods and I also made sure to combine foods to get complete protein...I am not impressed... Vegeterian diet never felt right to me and I just couldn't do it. I felt this emptiness like something was missing. It also had negative effect on my strength and I had a more difficult time lifting weights. After not eating steak for a long time I started eating steak and liver and it made me feel great, it felt right.
After that negative experience I never want to go back to eating like a vegetarian. I think vegetarianism is more about ideology and personal moral issues then health.
Everyone is different and ultimately you go with what works for you.
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Old 01-11-14, 07:20 PM   #57
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Everyone is different and ultimately you go with what works for you.
+1

The times I've been vegetarian, it has not been an ideology or a personal moral issues ... it is because I generally prefer to eat a vegetarian diet. I'm not fond of the texture or taste of meat, and when I do eat it now, it usually has to be fairly well disguised.
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Old 01-11-14, 07:30 PM   #58
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I think there's a lot to recommend Dr. Joel Fuhrman's high-density nutrient ideas. But there's no way I can eat as many veggies as he recommends. I just don't have the appetite to eat that much.
Dr Joel Fuhrman's diet seems to be very impractical. You need to eat a pound of greens a day or something?

I much prefer Dr. McDougall's diet. He is plant based, but also a starch guru. He promotes grains, rice, beans, sweet potatoes, squash, etc.

I don't follow his recommendations to the letter but I have followed it about 90% for the past 10 years and have felt healthy and hearty. It is very easy to remain satiated on his diet.
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Old 01-11-14, 10:32 PM   #59
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I've been eating a vegetarian diet for 20 years and my health is excellent. And not only have my hair and nails remained healthy, I managed to gestate two robust babies as well. Oh, the crap I heard during my pregnancies.
Since healthy babies have been born for many years to women who smoked and/or enjoyed alcoholic beverages while pregnant, does your experience/anecdote mean the scorn and "crap" from strangers directed at pregnant women today who light up in public, or have a drink at a restaurant may not be warranted?

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Old 01-11-14, 11:03 PM   #60
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I've been eating a vegetarian diet for 20 years and my health is excellent. And not only have my hair and nails remained healthy, I managed to gestate two robust babies as well. Oh, the crap I heard during my pregnancies.
You're not the only one. I have relatives in California who are Seventh-Day Adventists. They avoid meat for religious reasons. Studies have shown that the members of their church are much heathier than the population at large.

[h=3]Adventist Mortality Study[/h]The first major study of Adventists begun in 1960, has become known as the Adventist Mortality Study. Consisting of 22,940 California Adventists, it entailed an intensive 5-year follow-up and a more informal 25-year follow-up.
"...[The] Adventist Mortality Study (1960–1965) did indicate that Adventist men lived 6.2 years longer than non-Adventist men in the concurrent American Cancer Society Study and Adventist women had a 3.7-year advantage over their counterparts. These statistics were based on life table analyses."[SUP][3][/SUP]
Specifically, comparing death rates of Adventist compared to other Californians:[SUP][4][/SUP]
  • Death rates from all cancers was 60% lower for Adventist men and 76% lower for Adventist women
  • Lung cancer 21% lower
  • Colorectal cancer 62% lower
  • Breast cancer 85% lower
  • Coronary heart disease 66% lower for Adventist men, 98% lower for Adventist women
[h=3]Adventist Health Study 1 (AHS-1)[/h]An additional study (1974–1988) involved approximately 34,000 Californian Adventists over 25 years of age. Unlike the mortality study, the purpose was to find out which components of the Adventist lifestyle give protection against disease.
The data from the study have been studied for more than a decade and the findings are numerous – linking diet to cancer[SUP][5][/SUP] and coronary heart disease.[SUP][6][/SUP][SUP][7][/SUP]
Specifically[SUP][4][/SUP]
  • On average Adventist men live 7.3 years longer and Adventist women live 4.4 years longer than other Californians.
  • Five simple health behaviors promoted by the Seventh-day Adventist Church for more than 100 years (not smoking, eating a plant based diet, eating nuts several times per week, regular exercise and maintaining normal body weight) increase life span up to 10 years.
  • Increasing consumption of red and white meat was associated with an increase of colon cancer.
  • Eating legumes was protective for colon cancer.
  • Eating nuts several times a week reduces the risk of heart attack by up to 50%.
  • Eating whole meal bread instead of white bread reduced non-fatal heart attack risk by 45%.
  • Drinking 5 or more glasses of water a day may reduce heart disease by 50%.
  • Men who had a high consumption of tomatoes reduced their risk of prostate cancer by 40%.
  • Drinking soy milk more than once daily may reduce prostate cancer by 70%.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventist_Health_Studies
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Old 01-11-14, 11:47 PM   #61
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Fuhrmans' ideas aren't practical for me either, but he sure does give you another way of looking at food and nutrition. One thing he wrote was that, per 100 calories of food, lettuce has more grams of protein than steak. I think that's true, but to me it was a very shocking fact. The problem is, to get enough protein from lettuce alone, you would have to eat a washtub full of lettuce. That would be tedious for me, even though I love a big salad. I can do it about once a week, but that's about it.
It has about 1 gram more per 100 calories.

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Old 01-12-14, 01:11 AM   #62
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I tried a strictly vegetarian diet for nine months. My body wasn't working right all of the time so I began eating some meat again. Within a month I was stronger. I believe if I really liked greens and ate a lot of them I probably could have made it as a vegetarian. I just don't like greens. I love potatoes, beans, and rice. A couple of billion healthy Asians can't be wrong. Eating meat sparingly probably isn't very bad for humans.

I must say that due to the Fukushima nuclear disaster I no longer eat deep water fish or shrimp and I won't be buying any more kelp iodine supplements. If I eat any fish it will have to be farm raised.
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Old 01-12-14, 08:22 AM   #63
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@memebag and walter - how do you two cook your steel-cut oats?
1. Cut 1 tbsp of salted butter into quarters and put them into a pot over medium high heat.
2. Measure one cup of steel cut oats.
3. As soon as the butter is melted, pour in the oats.
4. Reduce the heat to medium.
5. Rinse out the measuring cup and use it to measure 3 cups of water into a sauce pan.
6. Put the sauce pan over high heat to boil the water.
7. While the water boils, periodically stir the oats vigorously to prevent burning.
8. When the water is boiling and the oats are toasted (you can tell because they darken slightly and give off a toasty popcorn scent) slowly pour the water into the center of the oat pot.
9. Reduce the flame under the oat pot to medium low.
10. Set an alarm for 20 minutes. Do not touch the oats while they cook.
11. After 20 minutes, turn off the flame and set an alarm for 10 minutes to let them cool.
12. Divide the oats into 4 equal servings. I put them in screw top plastic bowls. They weight between 150 and 165 grams each.
13. Refrigerate.

To serve, remove top from bowl and microwave for 30 seconds. Then add a little milk and stir. Microwave another 30 or 40 seconds. Add sugar and cinnamon and stir.

I'm eating them as I type this, just about to go for a ride.
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Old 01-12-14, 09:39 AM   #64
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I must say that due to the Fukushima nuclear disaster I no longer eat deep water fish or shrimp and I won't be buying any more kelp iodine supplements. If I eat any fish it will have to be farm raised.
C'mon down to Arkansas, home to the very first fish farms.

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Old 01-12-14, 10:23 AM   #65
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Since healthy babies have been born for many years to women who smoked and/or enjoyed alcoholic beverages while pregnant, does your experience/anecdote mean the scorn and "crap" from strangers directed at pregnant women today who light up in public, or have a drink at a restaurant may not be warranted?
What are your thoughts on heroin addicts?
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Old 01-12-14, 01:38 PM   #66
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Since healthy babies have been born for many years to women who smoked and/or enjoyed alcoholic beverages while pregnant, does your experience/anecdote mean the scorn and "crap" from strangers directed at pregnant women today who light up in public, or have a drink at a restaurant may not be warranted?
The difference is that science has shown again and again that smoking and drinking can be harmful during pregnancy, while science has shown again and again that a balanced vegetarian diet is not at all harmful during pregnancy. Do you agree with Rockmom's relatives? They're wrong. There is nothing of nutritional value in meat that can't be supplied by other foods. Now if she was subsisting only on twinkies during pregnancy that would be a problem, but not one that eating meat would solve.

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Old 01-12-14, 01:44 PM   #67
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What are your thoughts on heroin addicts?
My thoughts are that simple minded anecdotes do not make a convincing argument except for the simple minded.
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Old 01-12-14, 02:28 PM   #68
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My thoughts are that simple minded anecdotes do not make a convincing argument except for the simple minded.
You are aware that name-calling is against forum rules, aren't you? There is nothing simple-minded about our friend, Plustax, or his arguments.
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Old 01-12-14, 02:32 PM   #69
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There is nothing of nutritional value in meat that can't be supplied by other foods.
I respectfully disagree with your statement...Actually, meat especially red meat has some very important nutrients which you can't get from vegan diet alone These include vitamin B12, iron, creatine, cholesterol and saturated fat..Yes I know that some plants have iron but the problem is that the iron in plants is different from iron in red meat, the iron in plants is not absorbed by the body as well as the iron from red meat. Many vegeterians develop iron deficiency. Also there is no vegetarian source of vitamin B12 and the only way to get it is from animal products, many vegeterians end up with vitamin B12 deficiency.. Saturated fat and cholesterol which is found only in animal products is absolutely essential for good health and healthy metabolism. Fat and cholesterol are especially important for men because they help to produce testosterone. Another important nutrient which is found only in animal products is DHA omega 3 fatty acids.
Yes I know that flax seeds and hemp seed also have omega fatty acids but they are not the same as the ones in fish and meat.. Also the protein found in animal products has a much higher biological value then protein in plants.
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Old 01-12-14, 02:32 PM   #70
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You are aware that name-calling is against forum rules, aren't you? There is nothing simple-minded about our friend, Plustax, or his arguments.
And you should be aware that I said nothing about Plustax or his arguments.
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Old 01-12-14, 02:42 PM   #71
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I respectfully disagree with your statement... Actually, meat especially red meat has some very important nutrients which you can't get from vegan diet alone...
The American Heart Association and the USDA both say that vegetarian diets can be very healthy.
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Old 01-12-14, 03:15 PM   #72
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The American Heart Association and the USDA both say that vegetarian diets can be very healthy.
Do you really believe everything that USDA and American Heart Association has to say ??,, because I don't...Sure vegan diets may be ok for short periods of time, sometimes even for a few years, but eventually nutritional defeciencies will result. There is absolutely no 100% proof and evidence that vegans live longer or are healthier then people who eat animal products.
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Old 01-12-14, 03:16 PM   #73
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This thread has covered the topic and has started going off the rails, time to close.
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